The angry thread

[Skyline2uk]

I had cause to ring HMRC in early December as I'd been made to overpay tax in a big way by my pension company (although I understood why they had to do that).
HMRC sent me some forms which were duly filled in, sent back by signed for mail and duly collected by HMRC from Wolverhampton DO on 13.12.18.
Having heard nothing I rang them this morning and, when I finally got through to what I think was a human being, I was told that, yes, a payment of over £2000 was due to me, that it was with the 'Pending' department and would be actioned by the 7th February. When I told the bloke I was so pleased they were getting interest on my money he told me there was no need for me to be sarcastic and that he was doing his best to help me with the means at his disposal. In my best apologetic voice I told him I was so sorry he was the face of HMRC on the phone today but if he wanted to put me through to his manager or someone more senior I'd quite happily have a go at them instead.
Grrrrrr
Probably all I have accomplished is to be placed on the HMRC  list but it's a lot of money to a retiree on small pensions.

Honest sympathy sir and an honest nomination for a medal for ONLY being accused of being "sarcastic".

I think few would have blamed you if you have the chap both barrels but alas, even I have learnt long ago that such behaviour only provides a short term relief and most likely more grief in the long one.

Skyline2uk

[weave]

Hi NPN,

My sympathies too. Both myself and my wife have problems with THEM.

Decorum prevents me saying what I think the RC stands for.

Hope it all gets sorted.

Life's a Beach (with an itch).

Cheers weave 

[daffy]

 

Just spent two hours sorting out yet another case of Card Fraud involving our joint MasterCards. This is the fourth time one or other of our cards has been used fraudulently, and each time of course we get any stolen amounts credited back and the cards get replaced.

This time some nice person  used 5 different iTunes accounts to 'test' the details they had obtained about my card to buy 5 separate music downloads of 99p each. They did this just before Christmas, then another zero amount action with another company at the end of the year. At least this time they didn't buy airline tickets, holidays, or expensive items like on previous occasions.

The maddening thing is that we are both extremely fastidious about financial and personal security, so getting card details taken by criminals is a mystery.
I've spoken at length each time to the MasterCard fraud teams, and they tell me it is practically impossible for us to prevent it happening, and finding out the 'how' and 'why us' is pointless, as even they cant give a definitive answer. All they can say is that it pays to be fastidious, as we most certainly are, and to closely monitor the account and notify anything that appears suspicious involving a transaction to them as soon as possible. Happily we have always done a regular monthly accounting of all our monies, and statements we receive are immediately checked over as a matter of routine.

Okay, so we don't lose financially in the long run - except that somewhere along the line all these fraudulent uses have to be paid for by us all in some way - but I just lost the middle of my day to calling the card issuers (twice) and Apple to sort this out, and now have to wait, probably until next Tuesday or maybe later, for the replacement cards to be delivered. Thankfully we both can use other cards, debit or credit, to cover any transactions in the interim, but all in all it still leaves a bad taste in the mouth and is a right royal pain in the how's-your-father.

Okay, rant over. Until the next time some  uses my card as a source for their pleasures.

Addendum: we have come up with one way to prevent this kind of problem bothering us again. Cancel all our credit cards!

[daffy]

And they will then send you a cheque (2nd class) which then takes 5 working days to clear.

That's if the wonderful Royal Mail don't lose it.

Sorry Mick. I'm sure it'll arrive okay, and then you'll have the pleasure of eating again.

[port perran]

What is annoying is that if you are late paying they charge you interest.
I had a long protracted argument with HMRC when I retired (I was self lemployed).
It's too complicated to go through in detail here but quickly it related to payments on account. I wanted to spread my final tax payment over two instalments (July and January) as I would have done whilst still working.
I chose to complete my final years return early (in April rather than wait tilll December as I usually would).
That triggered them to demand my final payment in the July rather than 50% in July and 50% the following January.
Even the several people I spoke to at HMRC admitted that it was unfair and seemed  to be a glitch in the system.  If I had delayed my return till August then I would have been able to pay in 2 instalments.
Needless to say, however, I had to pay up so I lost out on 6 months interest on the money I could have saved.
Grrrrr.

[Newportnobby]

HMRC seem to be the only people who, if you are in the wrong, you have to pay and, if they are in the wrong, you still have to pay I spent years in Customer Service and never shied away from people on the blower etc getting angry, sarcastic, abusive etc. If you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen.

Mike's @daffy tale is very distressing in that there seems no way of preventing it all happening again. I've only ever had my credit card fraudulently used once and that was after some tea leaf walked through the company gatehouse, past reception, through the factory, into the offices and stole my wallet from my jacket (Security. What Security??).
NatWest bank tried to wriggle out of any responsibility, stating I must have been complicit, and it took months before everything was sorted in my favour.

[daffy]

Thankfully the systems the Credit Card companies employ these days are very good at spotting fraud. The first three times our cards were used by perps it was them that spotted it and contacted us.

As for High Street Banks (if they still have a High Street Bank where you live) , I learnt my lesson at a young age. I was a student, recently married and all but broke, living in Birmingham. Lloyds was my Bank, and I had a zero overdraft facility. One day, my student grant (they used to pay us to go to Uni in those days - well, sort of) was a couple of days late going in to the account, due to a clerical error of the grant issuers. Our account went £27.00 overdrawn.
I got a letter within two days asking me and my wife, with no details given as to the why, to call in at the branch in New Street.

Innocently and unknowingly we entered the Manager's office. He locked the door! We were then subjected to a tirade about financial carelessness, foolhardiness, and theft - yes, he used that word - despite the fact that between the letter being sent and us attending, the grant had been paid in, and my wife's pay had been paid in too by her employers, either of which easily cleared the overdraft.
Protestations from us were summarily and angrily dismissed, and we were left feeling like criminals, and convinced the guy was a moron.

But, thanks to that Bank Manager, I learned my lesson about banks, bankers, and banking.

Not the one he probably thought he'd taught.

[The Q]

I've twice had a halifax card diverted, the second time IIRC to a  Cafe in  Leytonstone. Both times the first thing I knew about it was when My card was refused at a shop.
On both occasions they told me I had changed my details to the new address online. To which I replied I don't have online accounting...
After which they shut up and very rapidly refunded the money. Personally I believe it was an inside job.

PS.. I still don't have online accounting, however it is getting very difficult with all these branches closing, there is one branch I can still use 10 miles away on my way home from work, if that closes it will have to be a special 50 mile round trip to find a branch in Norwich. (and they've closed most of them too..)

PPS I never use my bank account card online...

[themadhippy]

look for the  common  denominator, were do you use that particular card. local garage, restruant, model shop? if its been cloned 4
times your either very unlucky or some were your using the card  aimt to be trusted

[daffy]

look for the  common  denominator, were do you use that particular card. local garage, restruant, model shop? if its been cloned 4
times your either very unlucky or some were your using the card  aimt to be trusted

I'm afraid it is just not that simple. Both my wife and I - the only card holders - have done checks like you suggest, as of course have the MasterCard fraud team.
As they have pointed out in great detail to my many questions, identifying the origin is, in the vast majority of cases, impossible. Was it the person behind you with an iPhone snapping pics of your card (yes, it happens); was the transaction done on a computer with a virus; was the data held by the company you bought from hacked; did an employee nefariously copy data during a telephone transaction and use it themselves or pass it, for a fee, to others; was a scanner being used to capture card details; was a fake or modified card reader used;  or other methods MasterCard said they are aware of but would not elaborate on.

Unfortunately, using Credit Cards is a part of life now, and to know beforehand whether a sales point is one you can trust absolutely is like knowing the Lotto Jackpot Numbers before they are drawn. We will check out a seller, but just because we might trust, say, Tesco, does that mean we can trust everyone who works for them, or who is in the shop when we are? Of course not.

As to being unlucky, not according to MasterCard fraud team I've spoken with on numerous occasions. Card fraud is rife, and statistically, we are no more or less unlucky than the average it seems.

And of course once a fraud is detected, either by the Card companies or by we the unfortunate victims, when such as MasterCard act on that fraud, we get the fraudulent transactions recredited, but, we will never know what actions the card companies then take to identify the fraudsters and recover the losses. And action, they assure me, they do take.

But the good news is that if a fraudster gets hold of your details, though it might be damned inconvenient and a right pain, the system is on your side.
I still have questions for MasterCard, like what would happen if I was on holiday abroad and they had to block my card, but all in all I'm satisfied that my wife and I do all we possibly can to stay secure.

But I'll still get  and shout at the  and  who steal my details next time.

[Malc]

I had my card blocked by the credit card company because I bought a ticket from Norwegian Airlines. I happened to be working in Norway at the time, a fact that they could have seen from other receipts. Took me 4 days to get it reinstated. The next day they blocked it again because I booked a taxi in Oslo. There is just no telling some folks.

[Jerry Howlett]

My mother's bank card was blocked on a visit to me in Italy.  My sister was with us and phoned the bank to ask why, they explained and so did she. The Banks response was we can only talk to her (Mum) on the phone number that we hold a record for.  Her home number in the UK !!
Mum did what Mums do, "Don't go making a fuss".     

[talisman56]

My local station has gone over to phone payment for the car park. There is a machine on the down side, but it has been oos for a long while after some numpty reversed into it...

My bank proceeded to block both my cards when I tried to pay over phone for a day's parking. Fortunately they sent me texts to confirm the attempted transactions and when I replied in the affirmative I was then able to use one of them to pay. What I would have done if I had to get on the train and still not be able to pay I still don't know.

Of course, the staff at the bank branch got the sharp edge of my tongue next time I had cause to enter there... 

[daffy]

Do you sometimes feel that you are being treated as a ping-pong ball in a game of 'Find the responsible authority'?

Just over a week ago a neighbour a few doors away decided to clear up his back garden (I use the term in its loosest sense), as the next house to his had been sold and contractors had just removed the boundary line of tall conifers, revealing the mess behind them. A corrugated lean-to was first to come down, then he turned his attention to the little grey shed next to it. As hammer and brute force were his favourite tools, he began by smashing holes in the back of it.

Now as the son of a former Chief Environmental Health Officer for a Local Council, I know asbestos sheeting and corrugated roofing when I see it. But telling this particular guy that asbestos is dangerous and that he should 'follow the rules' would be a good way to get GBH of the ear, so I decided to refer the matter to........

Which is where the fun started.

Health and Safety Executive (HSE) website says I should report it to the Local Council Environmental Health Dept, so I telephone, give copious details and leave it in their capable hands, and they have marked it as 'Urgent'. Yesterday they call me back, as despite my giving a full location description - it's a distinctive house on a road junction in a small village - they needed the proper postal address. So I happily ascertain this and tell them. Luckily the guy has not continued in his destruction so the shed still stands.
This afternoon I get another call: "It's not us, you need the HSE".
I question this but I'm told that's the case, so I go back on to the HSE website where it tells me that it needs to be reported to ........ my Local Council Environmental Health Dept!  "At least it's raining at the moment so that will help", says the nice lady who had called me.

So I try to find clarity via the Environmental Agency Hotline (found on their .gov.uk webpages) and the nice lady there tells me it's the responsibility of the HSE, or maybe it's the Local Council Environmental Health Dept. 

Meanwhile, a little asbestos shed awaits destruction in the garden up the road, where two little children often play. And just outside the house is where the School buses collect and drop off their charges. And across the road lives a guy with a serious lung condition. And down the road a-ways lives Yours Truly, with his carefully managed Asthma - and a feeling that reporting environmental and health hazards is hazardous in itself!

Ah well, I'll call the Council again tomorrow. Who knows, I might be successful in wasting more time playing ping-pong. :'(

[dannyboy]

You could always send each and every department an email explaining how nobody seems to know what each department is responsible for and add that a copy of the email has also gone to the local/national papers.