Hello,
I am a recent new member of the NGS, and having read the article on pages 36 to 41 of journal 3/12 I would like to know if there any groups located in the UK that build and operate modular layouts based on any of the FREMO statndards, or indeed any other modular standards such as N-Trak.
Regards,
Michael Fearn
I should have added that I am asking about UK based groups modelling the British prototype, as I am already aware of the British NMRA groups modelling the American prototype.
Regards,
Michael
Welcome to the forum Michael. :wave: I don't know the answer I'm afraid, but I hope somebody near you does. :)
Hi Michael, we at the Berkshire Area Group have a large 4 track modular layout based on the NMod standard.
Details of our group and layouts can found on this site http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=3885.0 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=3885.0)
and on our website at www.bagladdies.weebly.com (http://www.bagladdies.weebly.com)
and on the N Gauge Society web site http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=Area-Group-contacts (http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=Area-Group-contacts)
Visitors are always welcome.
Best regards, Richard
:A1Tornado: :Carriage:
But that's only just up the road from me!!
Why did nobody tell me about this?
Richard,
Thank you for your reply and invite. Unfortunately, being in Staffordshire/Derbyshire, Berkshire is a bit far me. However, I am interested to learn more about the NMod standard, which I have not heard of before.
After some browsing/searching I have found and read the Berks standard (http://bagladdies.weebly.com/layouts.html (http://bagladdies.weebly.com/layouts.html)), the West Sussex standard (http://www.wsng.co.uk/Module%20Design.htm (http://www.wsng.co.uk/Module%20Design.htm)) and the Yorkshire standard (http://www.yorkshirengauge.org.uk/page17.html (http://www.yorkshirengauge.org.uk/page17.html)). There appear to be some variations between these and differences in the level of detail.
Has the NGS published the NMod standard at all, as I am unable to find any reference to this on the NGS website?
Regards,
Michael
Michael, I'm not aware of UK based modelers who currently model UK prototype to Fremo N standards. I know that a few UK based people model Continental prototype to Fremo H0 standards and there seem to be a few interested in British prototype 0e modules to Fremo standards.
BTW, I'm personally guilty of not finishing the translation to English language of the Great-britN standards. I blame the crazy economy here that produces to much work for to few people, at least where I work. So, if you have specific questions, just ask.
MacRat,
Thank you for your reply. Are the Great-BritN standards published in German at all? If so then I may be able to make sense with the help of Google Translate.
I suppose the key things I would need to know for the Great-BritN spec (specification) are:
- the end profiles for single, double track (Is there a four track spec in N-RE or Great-BritN?)
- track specification (I'm hoping peco code 55 would be okay here)
- how the track joins between modules (It is not clear to me how this works on http://blauthermik-rostock.de/nre-norm/modul/modul_gleise.htm (http://blauthermik-rostock.de/nre-norm/modul/modul_gleise.htm) so perhaps a drawing/diagram would be helpful)
- the spec for electrical connenctions at the ends and for transmission of power along the module
I presume these would all be in the N-RE spec (http://blauthermik-rostock.de/nre-norm/nre-norm.htm (http://blauthermik-rostock.de/nre-norm/nre-norm.htm)), but please point out if there are any differences in the Great-BritN spec.
Regards,
Michael
Michael
Yes, the Great-britN guidelines were published in German. But unfortunately the server seems currently not to be accessible. I can send you a PDF version when I'm back home this evening.
Re your questions:
- End profiles for single and double track are the same as specified in http://blauthermik-rostock.de/nre-norm/nre-norm.htm (http://blauthermik-rostock.de/nre-norm/nre-norm.htm) . The only difference is the reduced height top of rail above floor level. In a revised version of the Great-britN norm I'm currently working on there will be recomendations for ECML and WCML style of four track, though currently there is no design work done for it.
- Peco Code 55 is absolutely acceptable, preferably with the long point. The smallest radius allowed is 457 mm (18 inch) with the recomendation not going below 900 mm on station platforms and above 1000 m for landscape modules. However, there are already exceptions to this build. I hope the new Code 40 track discussed elswhere here could be used too if the points are to NEM standards (which is actually finer than Peco). As long as the track accepts NEM and NMRA RP25 wheels it will work.
- The track stops just at the end plate. When two modules are connected there will be a small gap. The electric connection is done with cabels provided below the modules. I don't know if I could manage to provide drawings, maybe I can source photographs.
- Just 4mm banana plug and sockets. More details later when I'm back home.
The Great-britN is derived from the N-RE, with just minor amendments for British-specific things and the height of the modules. The electric and mechanics are the same.
I've uploaded a PDF of the 2009 version in German language to the Media section:[smg id=1635 type=av].
The (not so) online version is currently offline due to a contract change. The owner is already looking into it.
Please note that this version was the first version called Great-britN. Since then we have learnt a lot that is worth to be written down or to be amended. Some statements are even not true anymore. I'm currently thinking to create a combined document for N-RE and Great-britN as there are only minor differences between them.
Edit 2012-10-14: The new version has been posted to the media section: [smg id=2343 type=av]
Re point 3, at http://www.blauthermik-rostock.de/Modellbahn/ModellbahnModule.html (http://www.blauthermik-rostock.de/Modellbahn/ModellbahnModule.html) you'll find pictures showing the endplates and one method how the track can be fixed at the ends.
Disclaimer, this are not my pictures nor have I build the modules.
MacRat, thank you for the extra info. The photos on the link provided are most informative.
Hi there,
just to give a more graphic description what the Great-brit N stuff is about and hopefully to generate some extra interest in the guidelines, I'd like to present a recently finished module right here which aimed to meet the guidelines almost 100 %.
The module pictured here is a result of my need for some relief from endless scratchbuilding buildings for my Penzance modular project and will hopefully be a useful addition to our group's existing range of modules. Though mostly representing a generic country image, I tried to give it a distinctive cornish accent fitting a disued tin mine.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k485/maenhaeck/Model%20and%20real%20life%20railway%20pictures/FREMO%20N-RE%20module%20ruined%20tin%20mine/IMG_0011.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k485/maenhaeck/Model%20and%20real%20life%20railway%20pictures/FREMO%20N-RE%20module%20ruined%20tin%20mine/IMG_0003.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k485/maenhaeck/Model%20and%20real%20life%20railway%20pictures/FREMO%20N-RE%20module%20ruined%20tin%20mine/IMG_0002.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k485/maenhaeck/Model%20and%20real%20life%20railway%20pictures/FREMO%20N-RE%20module%20ruined%20tin%20mine/IMG_0012.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k485/maenhaeck/Model%20and%20real%20life%20railway%20pictures/Penzance%20modular%20layout%20project%20in%20N%20gauge/UKBogenmodulGleisverlegt.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k485/maenhaeck/Model%20and%20real%20life%20railway%20pictures/Penzance%20modular%20layout%20project%20in%20N%20gauge/bogenmodulgespachteltgrundiert1.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k485/maenhaeck/Model%20and%20real%20life%20railway%20pictures/FREMO%20N-RE%20module%20ruined%20tin%20mine/IMG_0009.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k485/maenhaeck/Model%20and%20real%20life%20railway%20pictures/FREMO%20N-RE%20module%20ruined%20tin%20mine/IMG_0007.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k485/maenhaeck/Model%20and%20real%20life%20railway%20pictures/FREMO%20N-RE%20module%20ruined%20tin%20mine/IMG_0006.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k485/maenhaeck/Model%20and%20real%20life%20railway%20pictures/FREMO%20N-RE%20module%20ruined%20tin%20mine/IMG_0004.jpg)
However, what I'd like to set focus on here and to point out by the pics is that the continental origins of this specific modular concept don't affect its acceptability for a representation of UK prototypes in any way. IMO it's quite worth considering this concept if you're looking for modular setting anyway since in many cases it won't be necessary to reinvent the wheel where practical solutions are readily available ;)
Any questions regarding the concept or the module itself are of course most welcome :wave:
Hope you like it,
Matthias
Superb, and the disused tin mine is just inspired :thumbsup:
Marty
Excellent work, Matthias :thumbsup:
Very well done scenery, thank you for posting the pictures :thumbsup:
cheers John.
Excellent wprk.
It should be held up as an example of a railway cut into the landscape - rather than the landscape built up around the railway... It is what we should all be modelling...
Great modelling Matthias, thank you for posting. I'm looking forward to seeing your modules in about two weeks time.
For anyone visiting the Oktoberfest "Wiesn" in Munich this year, how about a side-trip to Lohr on September 22 ?
Regarding the English version of the guidelines for Great-britN modules, the translation and work on the document is almost done. It just awaits "approval".
Thanks for your kind comments and for your 'thanks'. :thankyousign:
Quote from: Greybeema on September 06, 2012, 09:34:40 AM
It should be held up as an example of a railway cut into the landscape - rather than the landscape built up around the railway... It is what we should all be modelling...
I'd suggest to grab/cut a pair of 'slope' (or 'cutting' or 'embankment') profiles and give it a try then ;)
Looking forward to the next meeting as well :)
Matthias
Having spent the weekend on this small project I'd like to keep on advertising and encouraging to have a go on modular constructed layouts. Whilst the tin mine module presented above is a very heavy and solid item, the work-in-progress module featured here is almost its opposite consisting of pre-manufactured, laser cut endplates and rather lightweight 10mm plywood. It is however a surprisingly rigid construction.
I am aware the 40 cm of straight track this section is going to feature may not be the most interesting part of a modular railway system. Nevertheless the section will form an essential part of our modular groups' arrangement, making it possible to directly attach my Penzance project to all modules with a standard 'slope' endplate without a scenic break, including the previously mentioned 'tin mine' module.
Instead of more lengthy description, here are the photos.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k485/maenhaeck/Model%20and%20real%20life%20railway%20pictures/FREMO%20N-RE%20module%20ruined%20tin%20mine/IMG_0022.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k485/maenhaeck/Model%20and%20real%20life%20railway%20pictures/FREMO%20N-RE%20module%20ruined%20tin%20mine/IMG_0024.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k485/maenhaeck/Model%20and%20real%20life%20railway%20pictures/FREMO%20N-RE%20module%20ruined%20tin%20mine/IMG_0026.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k485/maenhaeck/Model%20and%20real%20life%20railway%20pictures/FREMO%20N-RE%20module%20ruined%20tin%20mine/IMG_0028.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k485/maenhaeck/Model%20and%20real%20life%20railway%20pictures/FREMO%20N-RE%20module%20ruined%20tin%20mine/IMG_0031.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k485/maenhaeck/Model%20and%20real%20life%20railway%20pictures/FREMO%20N-RE%20module%20ruined%20tin%20mine/IMG_0033.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k485/maenhaeck/Model%20and%20real%20life%20railway%20pictures/FREMO%20N-RE%20module%20ruined%20tin%20mine/IMG_0035.jpg)
Progress ceased at the point where it would have come to tracklaying and wiring due to unforeseen accident I had run out of code 55 track and to my disbelief one local dealer had just dropped Peco from his product range while the other has shut down his business completely about two months ago, both of them previously having been Peco stockists.
I may continue posting some modular progress here some time, and if you're interested all questions are of course more than welcome.
Regards, Matthias
That's extremely neat work, Matthias, and it looks very strongly constructed :thumbsup:
Hello,
I will join these thread.
At the moment I build a junction module.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-zgDs4qQ-j2Q/UHhhVE6R8-I/AAAAAAAABfM/uPYvNUvbu-g/s912/PA120640.JPG)
Here are some pictures from our Great-britN meeting.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-xihbnHOAS0k/UGA5SuDW0MI/AAAAAAAABWk/Fb0Yy_QNtmE/s912/P9220506.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-alwX7jOQslg/UGA5SiwN9tI/AAAAAAAABWc/SlkdgZv_Gok/s912/P9220508.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-RkoW2QFOKU0/UGA5TYPX9iI/AAAAAAAABW0/azUcBCWyU_4/s912/P9220510.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-bsb5tufNRoI/UGA5VCCAL3I/AAAAAAAABXg/zrKaeg6AQAA/s912/P9220529.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-GRP76ZlTTAY/UGA5ZiqNoqI/AAAAAAAABZM/4fVjnuBtEMA/s912/P9230584.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-N1nQuUYd1jo/UGA5c8oRGCI/AAAAAAAABaY/4wMAxoLUjUs/s912/P9230593.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-i9nkYY4NaWw/UGA5e4E1eGI/AAAAAAAABbA/AYBHt3-fZ80/s912/P9230604.JPG)
Here you could see a my module Wuerzburg Road, which is a N-RE module, but could easily be incooperated in a Great-britN modular arrangement
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-CDxYjF2UlNI/UGA5hJu5YZI/AAAAAAAABb4/T09xYBKguv4/s912/P9230615.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Qquj-Gi3UPs/UGA5icTyKVI/AAAAAAAABcY/2LNZhewqs1M/s912/P9230620.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Lz-35zxBGyE/UGA5ilCpOJI/AAAAAAAABcM/H7oucF-ZRTU/s912/P9230622.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-GcDT1Mq-XMU/UGA5kvBKPVI/AAAAAAAABc4/nLO3PzySCoY/s912/P9230629.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-h7iuVraHA-4/UGA5k1dXiEI/AAAAAAAABdA/_A2tlmE2PgA/s912/P9230630.JPG)
In these picture you could see another N-RE module incooperated in our Great-britN arrangement
http://www.ios-railway.de/pix/Great-britN2012V01e.pdf (http://www.ios-railway.de/pix/Great-britN2012V01e.pdf)
The modular arrangement.
As soon as MacRat has finished the redoing of the Great-britN norm, I will make it available online.
Markus
For anyone interested, the new completely rewritten English version of the Great-britN Module Guidelines are now available. I've posted the PDF to the media section of the forum: [smg id=2343 type=av] .
I 'm looking forward to hearing from you.
The rewritten Great-britN and N-RE Module Guideline are now alsow available on the IoS Website.
http://www.ios-railway.de/normen.html (http://www.ios-railway.de/normen.html)
Markus
I got feedback that the numbers in the drawings for the Great-britN end profiles are not legible in the PDF guideline, so I tried to add better quality pictures. An updated version of the Great-britN guidelines is in the media section.
[smg id=8539 type=av]
Delightful!
Cheers Jon :) :)
As mentioned in my Penzance layout thread, one of the causes for the increased modelling efforts was an small exhibition in the greater Berlin area I was invited to attend the previous weekend. This however was not meant to be an exhibition of Penzance only but of all modular sections built to FREMO GreatBritN-standards available in the Berlin area.
The modules we were able to get together were:
- Penzance station
- Uig station, originally built by McRuss, now owned by a Berlin fellow modeller
- Cornish disused tin mine module
- Scottish castle ruin module
- several British freelance stretch-of-line modules
Thanks to the modular concept, despite the different topics anything went well together creating a consistent exhibition layout with about 11 metres of running track between two fully working stations. Usually, we would have attached a fiddle yard at either end of the arrangement, but in this case, just for fun and for exhibition purposes, we created a direct nonstop L-shaped link between Cornwall and Scotland ;)
The track plan (fiddle yard in the middle was then replaced by modules featuring landscape)
http://www.zwei-m.de/temp/20131130.klause_elstal.pdf (http://www.zwei-m.de/temp/20131130.klause_elstal.pdf)
This is how the arrangement was looking like:
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k485/maenhaeck/Model%20and%20real%20life%20railway%20pictures/Penzance%20modular%20layout%20project%20in%20N%20gauge/IMG_0589_zps7d76b03b.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/maenhaeck/media/Model%20and%20real%20life%20railway%20pictures/Penzance%20modular%20layout%20project%20in%20N%20gauge/IMG_0589_zps7d76b03b.jpg.html)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k485/maenhaeck/Model%20and%20real%20life%20railway%20pictures/Penzance%20modular%20layout%20project%20in%20N%20gauge/IMG_0591_zps9dae041c.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/maenhaeck/media/Model%20and%20real%20life%20railway%20pictures/Penzance%20modular%20layout%20project%20in%20N%20gauge/IMG_0591_zps9dae041c.jpg.html)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k485/maenhaeck/Model%20and%20real%20life%20railway%20pictures/Penzance%20modular%20layout%20project%20in%20N%20gauge/IMG_0587_zpsfc776135.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/maenhaeck/media/Model%20and%20real%20life%20railway%20pictures/Penzance%20modular%20layout%20project%20in%20N%20gauge/IMG_0587_zpsfc776135.jpg.html)
As the exhibition itself was quite busy (and proved a success with the public most of them never having seen UK outline before) I didn't manage to take any pictures during the opening hours myself. Lucky though, two fellow modellers attending as visitors have uploaded their pics on the net so you may follow the links if you like.
http://www.thwoditsch.de/fotos/301113/ (http://www.thwoditsch.de/fotos/301113/)
http://www.zwei-m.de/modelle/Weihnachtsmarkt-Elstal13/ (http://www.zwei-m.de/modelle/Weihnachtsmarkt-Elstal13/)
Any questions regarding this kind of modular concept are still most welcome.
Best regards,
Matthias
From today the Great-britN homepage is online.
There is still work to do, but a start is made.
http://www.great-britn.de/ (http://www.great-britn.de/)
Markus
Quote from: Michael Fearn on July 24, 2012, 06:34:12 PM
Richard,
Thank you for your reply and invite. Unfortunately, being in Staffordshire/Derbyshire, Berkshire is a bit far me. However, I am interested to learn more about the NMod standard, which I have not heard of before.
After some browsing/searching I have found and read the Berks standard (http://bagladdies.weebly.com/layouts.html (http://bagladdies.weebly.com/layouts.html)), the West Sussex standard (http://www.wsng.co.uk/Module%20Design.htm (http://www.wsng.co.uk/Module%20Design.htm)) and the Yorkshire standard (http://www.yorkshirengauge.org.uk/page17.html (http://www.yorkshirengauge.org.uk/page17.html)). There appear to be some variations between these and differences in the level of detail.
Has the NGS published the NMod standard at all, as I am unable to find any reference to this on the NGS website?
Regards,
Michael
Hi Micheal,
I wonder if you have made any progress in your search for a British standard for N gauge modules. I'm asking the same questions and don't seem to be getting any answers. I don't much like the German standard, it's too big and heavy. I have come to N gauge because I want to get more railway into less space and the German system does not seem to be designed with that in mind.
However I do like the bit that says
Through this we have come to value:
Individuals and interaction over processes and tools
Working modules over comprehensive landscape modelling and detailing
Coherent reflection of prototype operation over fine scale modelling
That is, while there is value in the items on the right, we value the items on the left more.
I'm in Northeast Hampshire, anyone else around here asking these questions?
David
Hi David,
I have not found any substantial new information.
Although not started yet, I'll probably go for something based around the Great BritN standard because of the flexibility it offers. In my view, it is only the ends of the module or group of modules that need to match the dimensions and profile of this standard and the modules do not need to have set dimensions and geometry so can be sized and shaped to fit my needs, providing there is no electrical interference with the through running line(s).
The Berkshire Area Group now has a bit of NMod module info on http://bagladdies.weebly.com/module-construction.html (http://bagladdies.weebly.com/module-construction.html) and there is a list of NGS area group contacts that may be of use if you have not yet tried them http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=Area-Group-contacts (http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=Area-Group-contacts)
Michael