Ghost car/helper

Intercity · July 23, 2019, 04:44:18 PM

While browsing for other items I came across a post about "ghost cars", a little more digging and it seems someone has created a motor assembly to fit inside a freight wagon/car (it's US based), the idea being a mid train helper unit that assists with a weak/under powered loco but is disguised as a regular wagon/coach in the train. The many posts about this loco and that loco that can't pull the skin of a rice pudding came to mind, hence this post.

Has anyone managed to make one for British outline, could it even be possible to cover the gears and gubbins without taking away the original look of the bogies, it would probably be similar to the voyager power cars that are mid-train (albeit they are the sole power source and not a helper.

I can't find the link to it now, will add it if I can find it again.

njee20 · July 23, 2019, 05:11:24 PM

Should theoretically be possible with the right prototype. My immediate thought is that we don't really do box wagons (closed ones) which would be the ideal thing to disguise a motor.

If you put a false load in something like a MBA monster box wagon it could work.

ntpntpntp · July 23, 2019, 05:50:37 PM

Depends on what wagon or coach you want to motorise? There are various Japanese chassis units out there, including "shorties". The problem is finding right wheelbase.

With very light stock you'd have to be extremely careful to ensure there are no pickup problems and the speed is properly matched to the other power units over the entire speed range, otherwise you'll just get pushing or dragging plus the inevitable derailments.

Railwaygun · July 23, 2019, 06:47:26 PM

I saw a Minitrix/ roco powered wagon at a show - about the size of a UK parcel van.

foolishly I didn't buy it!

Can anyone supply any more info?

ntpntpntp · July 23, 2019, 06:56:33 PM

Quote from: Railwaygun on July 23, 2019, 06:47:26 PM
I saw a Minitrix/ roco powered wagon at a show - about the size of a UK parcel van.

foolishly I didn't buy it!

Can anyone supply any more info?

I can't think of a Roco item, but the Minitrix Adler model is powered by a mechanism in one of the coaches - it relies on pickups on the other coaches.

Newportnobby · July 23, 2019, 09:36:31 PM

Quote from: ntpntpntp on July 23, 2019, 06:56:33 PM

I can't think of a Roco item, but the Minitrix Adler model is powered by a mechanism in one of the coaches - it relies on pickups on the other coaches.

That looks suspiciously like the new stock for HS2

Lawrence · July 23, 2019, 10:14:00 PM

Quote from: Intercity on July 23, 2019, 04:44:18 PM
While browsing for other items I came across a post about "ghost cars", a little more digging and it seems someone has created a motor assembly to fit inside a freight wagon/car (it's US based), the idea being a mid train helper unit that assists with a weak/under powered loco but is disguised as a regular wagon/coach in the train. The many posts about this loco and that loco that can't pull the skin of a rice pudding came to mind, hence this post.

Has anyone managed to make one for British outline, could it even be possible to cover the gears and gubbins without taking away the original look of the bogies, it would probably be similar to the voyager power cars that are mid-train (albeit they are the sole power source and not a helper.

I can't find the link to it now, will add it if I can find it again.

Very popular concept in the US, there was a recent discussion on NScale.net about this because the guy had 3 FEF's that were throwing traction tyres. He was pulling up to 12 feet long trains with one locomotive and kept shredding tyres, so this solution was suggested. For UK use one of the B-train Japanese shorty chassis might work like https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10032821 just don't ask me what kind of UK model it would fit in though. Newhall Station has dimensions here http://www.newhallstation.com/estore/product_info.php?products_id=876 bit I wouldn't recommend buying at their inflated prices, please shop around.

Simon D. · July 23, 2019, 11:35:06 PM

If you google randgust you'll find this bit of kit - uses 50 ft express boxcar with kato or tomix chassis.

Principle could be adapted for British prototype perhaps?

http://www.randgust.com/prod04.htm

Simon

Capri_sam · July 24, 2019, 07:17:09 AM

Ghosts are very common in T-gauge, which I also fiddle with and where one power car will only pull a couple of coaches at a push.

Something like the old farish power bogie with the sides filed down and a plasticard or 3D printed overlay would work as a helper for bogie stock, depending on how much you care about it being slightly out of scale to your prototype. Alternatively, two re-bodied union mills tender drive units run back to back (for pickup) with the centre wheel removed will have approximately the wheelbase of a pair of four wheel vans (might need to shop around for a prototype of the same wheelbase) and would pull scale length trains without the need for a pesky locomotive at all!

Bear in mind speed differences in running as others have said - pushers tend to be alright for slow running but will get messy at higher speeds and particularly on corners. It's easier if you can run them DCC to match the speed steps but even then they are trial and error and not really suited to tight corners.

ohlavache · July 24, 2019, 08:24:32 AM

You can also try this set:

One of the coach is the.motive power. You then need to change the body.
It's available for 54€ from DM Toys and for 39€ from Hobby Search (available in September).

Lawrence · July 24, 2019, 08:35:50 AM

Quote from: ohlavache on July 24, 2019, 08:24:32 AM
You can also try this set:

One of the coach is the.motive power. You then need to change the body.
It's available for 54€ from DM Toys and for 39€ from Hobby Search (available in September).

Funnily enough I am selling one of these if anyone is interested

njee20 · July 24, 2019, 09:15:07 AM

Ultimately you need to decide what you'd want to conceal and work backward from that. That shorty chassis isn't very prototypical for anything UK based, but there are loads of chassis available from Kato/Tomytec.

Tomytec do an 18m chassis which you could probably butcher into an MBA/JNA wagon, or something like the Dapol Cargowaggon which may be a reasonable option. You need something boxy, with adequate height to conceal the mechanism obviously, and be able to cover it. Coaches are potentially easier, but you probably don't have the same haulage issues with coaches.

That set up there looks interesting for a short wheelbase wagon, a small van or something.

Steven B · July 24, 2019, 10:22:38 AM

Coaches are easy - Farish or Dapol DMU chassis should work well and have the correct wheelbase.

Steven B.

Simon D. · July 24, 2019, 10:23:53 AM

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tomytec-TM-TR02-Powered-Motorized-Chassis-N-scale/362706933459?hash=item54730496d3:g:W7kAAOSwoMddL-pT

Bob Tidbury · July 24, 2019, 11:47:22 AM

The Kato four wheeled tram chassis is another option .I have a short container on top of the Kato shorty chassis and Ive painted it bauxite and put my late mate Cyril's name on it .
I still can't figure our how to put pictures on the main forum but if anyone wants to see it I can put it on the face book page .
It's definitely a rule one wagon though .
Bob Tidbury