I have received four deliveries from the EU since the beginning of the year. So far I have not paid any import VAT or carrier clearance charges. I suspect that HMRC are applying a light touch on raising VAT on small consignments at the moment.
Two shipments were from Shapeways in The Netherlands. Dutch VAT was not charged. One consignment was from a non-VAT registered German supplier, and other was from a German supplier who charged the standard German VAT. This supplier had the cheek to ask me to pay him 12.50 euros extra when his bank lopped that amount of the correct euro amount sent by my bank. I had to explain to him that they would take the whole of the extra 12.50 if I had sent it, and he should ask them to refund him the 12.50.
Shapeways were the only ones declaring the WTO tariff code for the goods - basically ornamental plastic - which would incur a 6.5% duty charge for consignments over GBP135 in value. Trying to get them to call my stuff "toys" probably means they would have to certify compliance with toy safety .regulations
Two things changed on 1 January 2021 for import shipments (EU and elsewhere) - the £15 low value consignment concession was removed, and a lower threshold for duty charges was set at GBP135.
I have a parcel on its way from Japan by surface mail which will be another test of the system, though I do not expect to see it for a couple of months.
It would be interesting to learn at what point import VAT restarts being charged by carriers on behalf of HMRC.
Quote from: woodbury22uk on March 18, 2021, 11:45:50 PM
It would be interesting to learn at what point import VAT restarts being charged by carriers on behalf of HMRC.
... especially if there's some advance warning of that so we can fill our boots, VAT free!
Mike
Thanks for this thread
N
Quote from: woodbury22uk on March 18, 2021, 11:45:50 PM
I have received four deliveries from the EU since the beginning of the year. So far I have not paid any import VAT or carrier clearance charges. I suspect that HMRC are applying a light touch on raising VAT on small consignments at the moment.
I have a parcel on its way from Japan by surface mail which will be another test of the system, though I do not expect to see it for a couple of months.
My experience has been similar. No extra charges on my items received recently from EU or Japan.
Importing from Switzerland seems to be OK as well at the moment. Swiss sellers have more experience of selling to outside the EU, to the USA for instance, which may help
Surely the retailer are irrelevant in this? All they need to do is remove local VAT, but whether they do doesn't actually influence what happens downstream. The point is that HMRC are not 'intercepting' parcels for fees. I note with interest that several of the (non railway) retailers I have used in Germany are still not selling to the UK, and I'll wager they historically have done many times more trade than any of the model shops. Bit strange.
I wish they'd say there was an amnesty on VAT and duty until x date, there are some good deals on 3D printers if you know you won't get stung for additional fees on entry to the UK!
Any experiences of recent orders from Aliexpress (China) ??
I buy electronic components in small volumes ( £10-£ 15 ) , I worry that import duties would make it uneconomic .
No difference there - it's the orders over £135 where HMRC should be getting involved to charge VAT on entry to the UK - and presently aren't. That said, God knows how AliExpress are navigating the accounting of UK VAT among their millions of sellers.
Quote from: njee20 on March 21, 2021, 02:50:38 AM
That said, God knows how AliExpress are navigating the accounting of UK VAT among their millions of sellers.
Think you meant
"if" :worried:
Well yes, that was my implication.
I received a package of stuff arrive a couple of days ago ordered from Spur N Teile one of the German N gauge spares specialists. Once again as per other recent post-Jan 1 transactions from abroad, EU included, no supplementary fees, and the retailer quite happy to post outside EU. Seems that as long as the seller (eg on ebay) or retailer is well versed in how to sell internationally there is not too much of a problem.
Shapeways are now adding 20% VAT at checkout time for invoices totalling £135 (including p&p) or less.
Mike
Earlier this week I decided to "test the water" with an order of £185 from DM Toys in Germany.
German tax was not deducted from the order and on arrival in the UK I was requested by UPS to pay 20% UK VAT plus £11.50 handling fee before delivery.
Quite an expensive experiment but because I paid online at least the delivery was not delayed and it arrived next day.
It would appear that HMRC don't have a VAT amnesty. :(
Yesterday I paid Menzels in Dusseldorf for a long standing £300 pre-order now ready for delivery. They deducted German VAT from the price of goods and shipping so I am expecting to pay VAT and a handling charge when the parcel gets to the UK.
Quote from: woodbury22uk on April 30, 2021, 10:06:28 AM
Yesterday I paid Menzels in Dusseldorf for a long standing £300 pre-order now ready for delivery. They deducted German VAT from the price of goods and shipping so I am expecting to pay VAT and a handling charge when the parcel gets to the UK.
Yes Mike. I have dealt with Menzels this year and they are excellent. The deduction of German VAT is clearly shown when ordering.
I'm afraid that the only option here is not to do business with retailers who do not deduct VAT.
If they lose enough business then maybe they'll have a rethink.
On the odd occasion that I've come across a UK retailer who didn't deduct VAT they didn't get my money.
Regards,
John P
Quote from: jpendle on April 30, 2021, 03:19:11 PM
I'm afraid that the only option here is not to do business with retailers who do not deduct VAT.
If they lose enough business then maybe they'll have a rethink.
...........................................................
Regards,
John P
I wrote to Daniel Mrugalski the owner of DM Toys this morning asking if he had any plans to deduct the German VAT from UK orders and this was his reply.
Dear Mr ......
thank you for your email.
Our conditions are fixed, we don´t do a VAT recharge. We use the saved VAT to cover our costs for the export and the high postage costs.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards / Cordialement / Saludos / Met vriendelijke groet
Daniel Mrugalski
- Inhaber / Owner -
Quote from: swisstrains on May 01, 2021, 01:48:00 PM
Quote from: jpendle on April 30, 2021, 03:19:11 PM
I'm afraid that the only option here is not to do business with retailers who do not deduct VAT.
If they lose enough business then maybe they'll have a rethink.
...........................................................
Regards,
John P
I wrote to Daniel Mrugalski the owner of DM Toys this morning asking if he had any plans to deduct the German VAT from UK orders and this was his reply.
Dear Mr ......
thank you for your email.
Our conditions are fixed, we don´t do a VAT recharge. We use the saved VAT to cover our costs for the export and the high postage costs.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards / Cordialement / Saludos / Met vriendelijke groet
Daniel Mrugalski
- Inhaber / Owner -
He would like us to believe that the export documentation costs and shipping charges are proportional to the cost of the order. I understand it is too much trouble, and presumably the UK is not being singled out and exports to other non-EU countries are treated the same.
I just paid the import charges on a £250 order from Menzels in Dusseldorf. The total INCLUDING Parcelforce clearance charge came to 20% of the original invoice value. Can't complain.
Quote from: swisstrains on May 01, 2021, 01:48:00 PM
Quote from: jpendle on April 30, 2021, 03:19:11 PM
I'm afraid that the only option here is not to do business with retailers who do not deduct VAT.
If they lose enough business then maybe they'll have a rethink.
...........................................................
Regards,
John P
I wrote to Daniel Mrugalski the owner of DM Toys this morning asking if he had any plans to deduct the German VAT from UK orders and this was his reply.
Dear Mr ......
thank you for your email.
Our conditions are fixed, we don´t do a VAT recharge. We use the saved VAT to cover our costs for the export and the high postage costs.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards / Cordialement / Saludos / Met vriendelijke groet
Daniel Mrugalski
- Inhaber / Owner -
So DMT apply the same shipping charges to overseas orders that it applies to domestic orders and makes up the difference from the overseas customer's VAT?!?!? Yeah, right. Guess I'll be closing my account with them then. Plenty of other continental retailers to choose from who are playing me fair.
Just received my first order from a European retailer since Brexit, having delayed buying until time had hopefully sorted things out.
I bought two Hupac wagons from Modellbahnshop Lippe (MSL) last week and though the original MSL website screen listing gave the full price including UK VAT, by the time I reached the payment screen the VAT had clearly been removed and all I had to pay MSL was goods and delivery ex VAT, aka 'sales tax'. ($69.40)
DHL.de were the initial carriers but on UK soil this passed to Parcelforce. Both carriers give details of the import process on their webpages, with DHL for instance clearly showing that Customs duty may be levied at 3.5% and UK VAT would be due plus their disbursement fee of £11.00. These charges would be sought pre-delivery and I would receive notice of the amount. Parcelforce seem to have the same system, though their disbursement fee is of course higher at £12.00.
So I was expecting the extra bill and was quite surprised to watch the online progress of the shipment out of Germany to the UK and thence via Customs to Parcelforce UK distribution hub, then the regional hub, and finally through my front door this morning without any mention of any fees or due VAT whatsoever.
Original order was just last Saturday and it was shipped on Tuesday to arrive today, Friday. Amazing, as it's the fastest shipment I've had from them.
So will I ever get charged any VAT or whatever? :hmmm:
Will the thugs from HMRC raid my house soon seeking redress? :hmmm:
Will I ever be able to sleep soundly again? :hmmm:
:D
To be honest I could care less either way. :D. Just happy to receive the goods so speedily. And que será será
Though I'm not sure what would happen with a higher value order over £135.00 with MSL once it reached these shores. Maybe I'll find out with my next order, though that won't be for a good while yet.
Oh, there was one sad thing to note - it seems MSL no longer include the little bag of sweeties they have always previously put in their parcels. :(
Quote from: daffy on July 30, 2021, 02:25:46 PM
Oh, there was one sad thing to note - it seems MSL no longer include the little bag of sweeties they have always previously put in their parcels. :(
International shipping of foodstuffs is another can of worms.
PS Or should that be kettle of fish.
Nothing should be due on anything under £135; so that's correct. I'm waiting on an order from the US, assuming I don't get stung for anything (as I don't quite trust the system!) I'll place a couple more £125 orders, as it works out cheaper than one large order by the time you've paid all the fees!
Quote from: maridunian on April 29, 2021, 11:48:01 PM
Shapeways are now adding 20% VAT at checkout time for invoices totalling £135 (including p&p) or less.
Mike
UK 'expedited' shipping by UPS (there is no 'basic' shipping to the UK any more) is now $19.99+VAT - was $9.99+VAT last year.
Mike
Quote from: njee20 on July 30, 2021, 03:58:42 PM
Nothing should be due on anything under £135; so that's correct.
Thanks Nick. Does that mean no UK VAT will be due then on small value orders from MSL? That doesn't seem right. That would make MSL an attractive proposition for any new purchases below the £135 threshold, even after their €9.90 delivery charge, just as you are finding with your US orders.
Quote from: daffy on July 30, 2021, 02:21:33 PM
Just received my first order from a European retailer since Brexit, having delayed buying until time had hopefully sorted things out.
I bought two Hupac wagons from Modellbahnshop Lippe (MSL) last week and though the original MSL website screen listing gave the full price including UK VAT, by the time I reached the payment screen the VAT had clearly been removed and all I had to pay MSL was goods and delivery ex VAT, aka 'sales tax'. ($69.40)
So will I ever get charged any VAT or whatever? :hmmm:
Will the thugs from HMRC raid my house soon seeking redress? :hmmm:
As I understand it, MSL have made the mistake, or broken the law, by not charging you UK VAT and then passing that on to HMRC.
The VAT man might raid MSL, but probably not :D
You might get a begging letter from MSL asking for the missing VAT though :doh:
John P
Quote from: jpendle on July 30, 2021, 04:27:00 PM
Quote from: daffy on July 30, 2021, 02:21:33 PM
Just received my first order from a European retailer since Brexit, having delayed buying until time had hopefully sorted things out.
I bought two Hupac wagons from Modellbahnshop Lippe (MSL) last week and though the original MSL website screen listing gave the full price including UK VAT, by the time I reached the payment screen the VAT had clearly been removed and all I had to pay MSL was goods and delivery ex VAT, aka 'sales tax'. ($69.40)
So will I ever get charged any VAT or whatever? :hmmm:
Will the thugs from HMRC raid my house soon seeking redress? :hmmm:
As I understand it, MSL have made the mistake, or broken the law, by not charging you UK VAT and then passing that on to HMRC.
The VAT man might raid MSL, but probably not :D
You might get a begging letter from MSL asking for the missing VAT though :doh:
John P
Yes, that makes sense. Maybe they (or HMRC) might get wise or wake up if I place lots of little orders, but until that day........ :thumbsup: :D
Yes, basically John has it. They should be collecting UK VAT on orders below £135 on behalf of HMRC. This feels like a huge, glaring hole frankly, as there must be literally thousands of retailers globally who are not doing this. £135 is a fairly useful limit too!
I can't see how HMRC could even go after MSL (unless they wanted to make an example of them, but even then I'm sure there are going to be far more lucrative targets than a German model retailer!), so I'm hopeful that this could conceivably be the first Brexit benefit, even if it means someone is doing something unlawful!
The best are the ones who remove local VAT and don't collect UK VAT. An order from Digikeijs worked out about 40% cheaper than buying in the UK!
I think the key thing is that there's no mechanism for HMRC to intercept these parcels, I guess they have all got customs forms on them, but I'm not sure if there's a moratorium on collecting VAT on these orders at the moment. There must be tens of thousands of them coming in.
Thanks again Nick. :thumbsup:
I'm rather partial to loopholes. Tastier than the aforementioned missing MSL sweeties! :)
Quote from: daffy on July 30, 2021, 04:26:35 PM
.......................... Does that mean no UK VAT will be due then on small value orders from MSL? That doesn't seem right. That would make MSL an attractive proposition for any new purchases below the £135 threshold, even after their €9.90 delivery charge,..................................
That's very true and is one of the reasons my stock has increased considerably since January. ::)
Time for some more new toys for me ahead of schedule then (just in case the situation changes, you understand). :thumbsup:
Now, where's that darned Credit Card gone? It was here a minute ago. :hmmm:
(Memo to self: don't tell the wife the content of your chats on the Forum next time. :dunce: :doh:)
Quote from: maridunian on July 30, 2021, 04:09:12 PM
Quote from: maridunian on April 29, 2021, 11:48:01 PM
Shapeways are now adding 20% VAT at checkout time for invoices totalling £135 (including p&p) or less.
Mike
UK 'expedited' shipping by UPS (there is no 'basic' shipping to the UK any more) is now $19.99+VAT - was $9.99+VAT last year.
Mike
Shapeways have reduced their shipping costs to the UK: Expedited (2-3 days) $14.99 (£10.88) or Express (1-2 days) $24.99 (£18.18).
I assume this is because UPS have been able to reduce their prices now things have settled down.
Mike
I have a pre-order from a German shop, paid for in full back in June last year before all the post Brexit tax rules kicked in. Obviously it included German VAT at that time.
The loco's expected to become available this month according to the last updates (though I wouldn't be surprised if it's later), so my thoughts are turning to the question of VAT (it is over the £135 threshold): Should I be entitled to and try to ask the shop to refund the German VAT when it ships, if they can't/won't then should UK VAT be applied on something that was paid for before the rule changes, and if UK VAT is applied should/can I try and claim it back (no idea how though)?
Hi Nick. Is it from a dealer who is currently deducting German VAT from UK orders?
You will be eligible for UK VAT I'm sure. I'm not sure there's a mechanism for handling 'pre-orders', particularly 10 months later. To that end yes, I'd absolutely ask the German retailer for a refund on the German VAT.
Quote from: swisstrains on October 05, 2021, 09:04:01 PM
Hi Nick. Is it from a dealer who is currently deducting German VAT from UK orders?
Don't know, not used them before or again for anything else.
https://citytoys.de/aid-8199-CTD-Exklusiv-Elektrolok-Baureihe-181-2-Nordliner-SEL-rot-beige-Spur-N-CTD-Elektrolok-BR-181-2-Nordliner-SEL-TEE-HNS2534.html#content (https://citytoys.de/aid-8199-CTD-Exklusiv-Elektrolok-Baureihe-181-2-Nordliner-SEL-rot-beige-Spur-N-CTD-Elektrolok-BR-181-2-Nordliner-SEL-TEE-HNS2534.html#content)
Quote from: njee20 on October 05, 2021, 09:14:17 PM
You will be eligible for UK VAT I'm sure. I'm not sure there's a mechanism for handling 'pre-orders', particularly 10 months later. To that end yes, I'd absolutely ask the German retailer for a refund on the German VAT.
I'm pretty much assuming I'll just "suck it up" in this instance. Kind of don't want to sour the deal by asking and risk maybe the shop deciding they don't want to deal with UK buyers and cancelling the order (they'd have to refund me in full of course).
Think positive Nick. It's a nice looking loco and well worth the extra VAT.
It also looks like you have now got until Feb 2022 to save up.
@swisstrains (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=193) Yeah I like 181s, I have 2 or 3 of the old Roco models.
Where did you see Feb 2022 mentioned?
Quote from: ntpntpntp on October 05, 2021, 10:03:43 PM
@swisstrains (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=193) Yeah I like 181s, I have 2 or 3 of the old Roco models.
Where did you see Feb 2022 mentioned?
I followed this link at the bottom of the loco info page that you posted.
https://citytoys.de/wid-91-BR-181.2-SEL-Exklusiv-Modell.html#content (https://citytoys.de/wid-91-BR-181.2-SEL-Exklusiv-Modell.html#content)
@swisstrains (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=193) oh yeah, they updated that page but not the detail page. Fair enough, I'll let this problem go back to sleep for a few months more then :)
I wonder if the pre-order price will go up any more with all the price rises being advised by the manufacturers? It's already risen 99c since I ordered :D :D
Two thoughts Nick:
You state you 'paid in full in June last year'. Was this actual payment, that is the full amount appeared on your statement from bank or credit card coy, or was it just a 'placeholder' where the seller takes the money only when they actually ship the item?
Secondly, you could try a dummy order now of the same item to see whether the invoiced amount now shows the German VAT or not. If it does I'm afraid the seller is like DM Toys and VAT gets whacked on by the UK as well if the cost exceeds £135, and no refund possibility of that 20%.
If it doesn't show German VAT, and there has been no actual payment take yet, then you might be okay, subject of course to the £135 UK limit for VAT at import.
A possible reason to be cheerful.
I see that CDT ship with DHL (who then hand it over to Parcelforce in the UK). I have had parcels from Germany delivered by DHL/Parcelforce that have escaped the attention of HMRC even though their value was significantly greater than £135.
From what I have read (and my own experience) this rarely seems to happen with orders over £135 when the shipping is done by UPS.
@daffy (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5634) paid in full on my PayPal (I have screenshot the transaction just in case)
@swisstrains (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=193) yeah I like DHL. We'll see what happens next Feb :)
Quote from: swisstrains on October 05, 2021, 09:48:01 PM
Think positive Nick. It's a nice looking loco and well worth the extra VAT.
It also looks like you have now got until Feb 2022 to save up.
I second this Nick. I remember ages back you saying you wanted one of these.
Quote from: swisstrains on April 30, 2021, 09:12:44 AM
Earlier this week I decided to "test the water" with an order of £185 from DM Toys in Germany.
German tax was not deducted from the order and on arrival in the UK I was requested by UPS to pay 20% UK VAT plus £11.50 handling fee before delivery.
Quite an expensive experiment but because I paid online at least the delivery was not delayed and it arrived next day.
It would appear that HMRC don't have a VAT amnesty. :(
Be careful also of the Haribo tax! :D
Hi Matt. I assume not being able to go on your travels has resulted in an attack of boredom and an uncontrollable urge to read old posts. :D
Hopefully things will improve soon and you can get back on track. :thumbsup:
Quote from: swisstrains on December 21, 2021, 08:38:02 PM
Hi Matt. I assume not being able to go on your travels has resulted in an attack of boredom and an uncontrollable urge to read old posts. :D
Hopefully things will improve soon and you can get back on track. :thumbsup:
Hah yes you caught me out there! Serves me right! :D
I am ordering some wagons from MB Lippe. I gathered that they deducted German VAT.
their carriage page states
If you have a tax ID, then please let us know. We then will deduct the German value added tax from your bill.
How can I get a Tax ID - do I have to be VAT registered? Or find a friend with one?
Quote from: Railwaygun on February 04, 2022, 06:44:47 PM
I am ordering some wagons from MB Lippe. I gathered that they deducted German VAT.
their carriage page states
If you have a tax ID, then please let us know. We then will deduct the German value added tax from your bill.
How can I get a Tax ID - do I have to be VAT registered? Or find a friend with one?
That "tax ID" statement is, I think, only applicable to EU customers who are VAT registered. My business is, and no, I don't put model railway items through it, but previously business purchases made from other EU countries could be made without paying VAT - which, as a business, I'd have been reclaiming anyway.
These days, when you purchase from Lippe they deduct the (German) VAT at the checkout for UK customers (I've just run something through the shopping basket to confirm, stopping short of actually paying). I note that they now use FedEx for shipments to non-EU countries including the UK and Switzerland; I don't know how FedEx handle the import side (i.e. whether they will clear the item and levy any UK VAT due) as I haven't bought from Lippe since they changed their shipping arrangements.
I have used Lippe recently and can confirm that they are still deducting the German VAT.
When FedEx are ready to deliver, if your order is greater than £135, they will contact you by email and you can pay online.
I was asked to pay the UK VAT plus a FedEx Disbursement Fee of £11.16.
What gets me is the amount of time UK Customs are taking to get stuff through, particularly from Europe.
Recently I ordered two items on the same day- one from the US (California to be precise) and the other from Germany. Both were shipped on the day of ordering. Both used Fedex.
The item from California arrived eight days before the item from Germany.
Les