I'm completely new to N gauge and I'll be needing to ask quite a few questions. I hope those of you experienced won't mind as there's so much I need to learn.
Just running some tests with setrack I can see there are issues with rail joints and tight curves. I intend to use flexitrack for my layout and I understand the best is to solder the joins. How do you guys do this? Do you use connectors and solder these or just butt the rails and solder? Do you fill any gaps and smooth these after? I have facility with soldering from electronics but I'd like to know how you guys do it, or if anyone considers it not necessary with fixed down track?
Another issue is isolatiion in sidings etc. Do you cut one rail or both?
I have soldered joins, and have used both the techniques you describe, depending on location and circumstances. The important thing of course, is to keep the inside of the rails clear of solder.
Regarding isolating sections, with a DC layout, it is only necessary to cut one rail, and bridge with a switch, so you can run a locomotive onto the section, and then isolate it by flicking the switch. I have many of these on my layout.
I have always soldered the joins after rail joiners have been fitted. I've found it best to bend the rail first pretty much as it would be in position, trim the end of the longer rail, fit the rail joiners and close the gaps on both rails, then solder. When soldering I don't try to bend rail into its final position until after solder has set. If the rail is 'relaxed' when you are soldering the rail ends will not have any tendency to kink. After soldering, I use a Dremel tool inside and outside of the rail to trim it all up. If you are using rail joiners, the amount of solder necessary should be small.
By using a hot iron, you are less likely to melt the sleepers.
Webbo
Quote from: Bealman on October 13, 2017, 01:29:24 AM
Regarding isolating sections, with a DC layout, it is only necessary to cut one rail, and bridge with a switch, so you can run a locomotive onto the section, and then isolate it by flicking the switch. I have many of these on my layout.
As Bealman says, cut just the one rail (I use my Xuron track cutters)and then run a wire from each side of the cut to a switch. A momentary switch is of no use so make sure the switch is a latchable one, This can be either a toggle or push switch. As mine are going into a control panel I prefer the push type.....
https://www.rapidonline.com/sci-r13-512b1-red-latching-push-switch-sm-button-red-78-0233 (https://www.rapidonline.com/sci-r13-512b1-red-latching-push-switch-sm-button-red-78-0233)
Personally I just avoid joins on curves as I'm hopeless at soldering and won't rely on just fishplates and track pins to keep things from moving.
Mick the good thing about a miniature toggle switch is that it indicates itself. Up is isolated, down is powered.
Fair point well made :thumbsup:
My problem is that I will be using toggle switches for shifting section power from one controller to another (cab control) using a sideways motion so will just confuse myself if everything is toggled :dunce: :-[
Thanks! With a couple of Friday evening beers here in Oz, too! :beers:
Regarding your edit:
I don't see a major problem. Have the switches horizontal for passing control, up and down for isolation.
The classic Clinchfield project layout from Railroad Modeller has comprehensive diagrams and instructions.
When joining flexitrack, where a curve is required, I always join them together straight first, with rail joiners, and then solder. Only once I've done that do I then introduce the curve. That way you guarantee a smooth perfect curve at the join, with minimal chance of kinks. It does mean you will have a larger length of rail on the inside of the track when the track then transitions to being straight again. But it's easier to judge for cutting when straight, than when on the curve.
Your mileage may vary.
You've summed that up nicely.
That's what I did, but couldn't put it into words! :-[ :thumbsup:
Thank you! :beers:
My son tells me I should solder feeder wires to tracks away from the joiners and definitely not where a track joins to a point in case one has to be lifted out. The residual solder at the joint makes it impossible to fit a new rail joiner. I can't personally see a reason why track lengths otherwise shouldn't be soldered at the joints if the laying out is permanent. Though I have to go into the details, it seems the V end of the point will use insulated ones on the V track pieces if you have these electro frogs.
Quote from: Bealman on October 13, 2017, 09:50:38 AM
Regarding your edit:
I don't see a major problem. Have the switches horizontal for passing control, up and down for isolation.
As opposed to horizontal for passing control and in/out for isolation? :P ;D
Quote from: newportnobby on October 13, 2017, 09:36:00 AM
... cut just the one rail (I use my Xuron track cutters)and then run a wire from each side of the cut to a switch.
Why run two wires either side? One wire goes to the main section power feed (the "live" side if you like), so can be connected inside the control panel. Just one wire to the switched side of the cut is enough. Only need half the wiring then! That's how I've done it for decades.
Do remember, if you solder the rail joints you are then reducing any capacity for rail expansion, which could be significant in an environment with a lot of temperature variation such as a loft or shed.
To be honest, I've rarely found the need to solder a rail joint and I'm surprised a beginner would want to consider it from the outset.
I deliberately used Settrack curves for a return loop I built last year, rather than flexitrack. It's perfectly fine, it did 4 days at Stuttgart with no derailments at all.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/5885-131017155003.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=56667)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/5885-131017155359.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=56668)
Quote from: ntpntpntp on October 13, 2017, 02:59:59 PM
Quote from: newportnobby on October 13, 2017, 09:36:00 AM
... cut just the one rail (I use my Xuron track cutters)and then run a wire from each side of the cut to a switch.
Why run two wires either side? One wire goes to the main section power feed (the "live" side if you like), so can be connected inside the control panel. Just one wire to the switched side of the cut is enough. Only need half the wiring then! That's how I've done it for decades.
Why run a wire either side of the cut? 'Cos I don't know otherwise :dunce:
I keep telling folks it's a black art, but they won't listen.
Some interesting ideas here, thanks. Why would I consider soldering as a beginner? Cos that's what I keep reading so good to hear it might not be necessary??? Thanks for the advive to connect up the rails before making the curve - I can see that will help.
Not necessary to solder the rails if you are using set track to go round the corners. Set track is code 80 so if you are using code 55 you will have the issue of mating two rail sizes. Try joining two sections of flex track going round a tight curve and you will quickly see why soldering the rails before they are bent into the final position might be a good idea.
Webbo
As in this hidden curve on the B & CE..... it's so tight it's distorted the sleepers!! :-[
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/albums/Bealman's_Album/Dir_6/main_9093.jpg)
I've got no idea why the wire is soldered there, by the way..... it goes nowhere!!
More :-[
This restoration job was never going to be easy! :worried:
Hi Folks
If you need more than 1 length of flexitrack to go around a curve, I find the best way is to overlap the joins by 4 sleepers, solder the fishplates and put the join in the middle of the curve.
This helps kink resistanceand spreads the loads out a bit better as there is an alternating continuous rail opposite the joint.
You have to be careful to bend the curve before joining if the curve needs more than 2 lengths or it goes pants when the inside rail tries to shorten when bent.
How do I know This?
Alan
Yes. I'll be facing all of this in a while when I'm set up. I can see how, when you bend a track you end up with rails of two different lengths. I thought the idea was to then saw it level to meet the straights? I've got hold of a fancy bending device from Peter's Spares that looks to be adjustable for any radius. I'm using code 80 so yes, set-track curves might do. I have 8ft x 2ft 6" in the loft giving me an oval with 6ft straights, so I could use 12" radius, though I'd like to avoid too many joints.
Yes, you can saw it approximately level to meet the straights. Then join one rail and solder. The gap on the other rail can be closed up by moving the flexi-track to one side or the other and then soldered at the join. I think the important thing is not to try to force the curve at the join before soldering. Unconstrained flexitrack will tend to straighten at its ends even when it is curved over most of its length and you want the rail sections to be joined in a straight line when soldered. Bend the track into its final position including through the join after all the soldering is completed. It really is a piece of cake.
The idea of staggering the rail joins as suggested by acook is something I haven't tried, but may be particularly useful if the track is tightly curved. I haven't found it necessary with 12" curves with code 55 track.
The issue of possible problems caused by rail expansion raised by ntpntpntp is an interesting one. Of course, baseboards etc. also expand when the temperature goes up so the situation is not so bad as it might be. Even so, I only solder joints on curves and I haven't had any noticeable problems of rail buckling.
Webbo
If you're using code 80 throughout then I'd go for set track end curves, especially if they are hidden from view. Keep life easy!
Wot he said, though in that photo above, I think I bent that Code 80 past it's design parameters!
Interesting the expansion thing. My loft goes from "Sahara" to "Polar" during the year so the odd unsoldered clip here and there might not be a bad idea.
I'll be able to use 12" radius curves on the main line in the space I have (really don't think I should saw through the roof timbers!!!) and yes, set-track is an option but on internal lines, what's the tightest practical radius you can get away with, just for info?
Quote from: Old Crow on October 18, 2017, 02:31:35 PM
on internal lines, what's the tightest practical radius you can get away with, just for info?
Sorry, but the answer to that lies in what you intend to run.
My branch line is all 9" radius curves with small code 55 electrofrog points (12" radius) but for steam I will be running small tank/tender locos and diesels will be mainly shunters/4 axle locos and max 6 axled ones e.g. the odd Warship.
The track diagram is in set track but no set track has been used (it's all code 55 flexitrack curved with a 9" tracksetta)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/264-200916145637-43727903.jpeg)
Thank you for that. Your track plan gives me an idea of what can be fitted into a small - in my case, narrow, area.