Chiltern Mk3s

[woodbury22uk]

For those interested in the current Chiltern Mainline trains, on the Dapol Digest site their MD Joel Bright has indicated that they intend to include the current slam door train set in a future run of Mk3 coaches. The set currently operates between Marylebone and Bicester North, and has previously run to Banbury on a regular basis , with odd forays to the edges of the Chiltern network. The days of the real coaches are numbered because they will not have a power door conversion, or be equipped for the next phase of disabled passenger requirements. The DVT would almost certainly be unchanged, although the Chiltern ones have one van door on each side fitted with air flow grilles for the diesel powered auxiliary power unit used in conjunction with Chiltern trains.

[RailGooner]

A three coach plus DVT bookset maybe?

[davidinyork]

For those interested in the current Chiltern Mainline trains, on the Dapol Digest site their MD Joel Bright has indicated that they intend to include the current slam door train set in a future run of Mk3 coaches. The set currently operates between Marylebone and Bicester North, and has previously run to Banbury on a regular basis , with odd forays to the edges of the Chiltern network. The days of the real coaches are numbered because they will not have a power door conversion, or be equipped for the next phase of disabled passenger requirements. The DVT would almost certainly be unchanged, although the Chiltern ones have one van door on each side fitted with air flow grilles for the diesel powered auxiliary power unit used in conjunction with Chiltern trains.

Deadline for slam door coaches on service trains is the end of next year - PRM rules come into force on 1st January 2020. Derrogations would be required for operation beyond that: the Night Riviera has been granted a derrogation on the basis that staff will open the doors, but that's not a practical option for standard daytime trains. It remains to be seen whether any short-term derrogations will be granted, especially for HSTs. Realistically it probably will happen, especially on the Midland Mainline where there is nothing available to replace the HSTs, the franchise is about to be re-let and there isn't time to modify the HSTs even if they wanted to.

HSTs on the ECML and GWR are due to be replaced with new trains by the end of next year (with some of the GWR sets being shortened and fitted with power doors, for both Scotrail intercity and GWR local services). The Greater Anglia loco-hauled Mk3s are due to be replaced by new Stadler units, and the Mk3s in Wales are due to be replaced with Mk4s ex-LNER (three sets for the Cardiff-Holyhead service: the north Wales set will go back to units). The Scotrail sleepers are being replace by new CAF Mk5 carriages, and the Crosscountry HSTs are having power doors fitted.

As most of you with an interest in Mk3s will probably know, the power doors being used on the HSTs are not the same as the Chiltern ones: Chiltern fitted plug doors (which move outwards and swing to the side outside the bodyshell when opened) and which are wider than the original slam doors. With the HSTs, they have gone for sliding doors which retract inside the bodyshell and are about the same width as the slam doors (they look like the doors on a Class 56 or IEP). Apparently the main reason for this was that the Chiltern conversions were very difficult to do as an exact fit is required for the plug door, and the Mk3s aren't built to very close tolerances. The sliding doors were designed to be more tolerant in that the whole unit of door and pocket are manufacturerd and then inserted into a widened aperture and welded in, but even that has fallen foul of the dimension variations in the coaches and hence the project is running late.

Mk2s will of course also be ruled out by the PRM rules, so the temporary sets of those in use with Northern (Cumbrian coast), GA (Norwich - Lowestoft/Great Yarmouth) and Scotrail (Fife Circle) will all be withdrawn.

With the Chiltern DVT, so far as I know they don't use the generators much / at all now - the reason for installing them was that the 67s were noisy when providing the ETS supply when stabled (their two-stroke engines make a high-pitched and very noticeable noise) and there had been complaints from people living nearby. The 68s now used are lower-pitched and much less obtrusive.

[alibuchan]

I am very much looking forward to having the slam door set. Finally something for my locos to pull! It's only been 18 months since I first mentioned it to Joel. And 12 since I started sending them the pictures, of each coach, trying to convince them to produce them.

The slam door set is 99.99% not going to be in service after December 2019. As the pricing looks prohibitive to how much longer it would be in service. With a new franchise on the way in 2021, there could be the possibility of a new stock order if it is anything like the other new ones recently handed out by he DaFT.

The Genset in the DVT have recently been used a lot more over the past 6-9 months due to issues with the ETS on the loco dropping in and out. So to make sure the supply is good it is easiest to have the genny giving it a top up to keep the PA and lighting going.

The plug door sets need to be made compliant as well. This would include modified seats so that the arm rests move to allow easier access to them and CIS (customer info systems) have to be added to make them compliant.

Al

[davidinyork]

The Genset in the DVT have recently been used a lot more over the past 6-9 months due to issues with the ETS on the loco dropping in and out. So to make sure the supply is good it is easiest to have the genny giving it a top up to keep the PA and lighting going.

The plug door sets need to be made compliant as well. This would include modified seats so that the arm rests move to allow easier access to them and CIS (customer info systems) have to be added to make them compliant.

Cheers. Didn't realise there were issues with the ETS on 68s. Let's hope that there is a fix or Transpennine are going to have a problem! Are DRS working on it?

Presumably the supply from the locos is turned off when the generator is on? As I understand it only there can only be one supply of ETS to a train at a time.

Yes, I did know about those issues with the power door sets. I guess the question is whether they will replace / modify the seats and add the information screens, or go for a derrogation if the sets aren't going to be in use for long: it surely has to be likely that the sets won't survive much beyond 2020 anyway, given that they haven't been particularly reliable, are a very small fleet, and are owned by Arriva so aren't likely to feature in the long-term plans of any other bidders for the franchise.