Oiling and running in... UK vs Japan

[railsquid]

Following on from the recent threads about quality control, as the proud new owner of a small fleet of Dapol and Grafar locos I'm interested to know why they need oiling and running in - and/or why my Japanese-origin stock does not (even though some of it is built in the same country, aka China). I actually double-checked the instructions on my Japanese locomotives to see if I was overlooking some essential pre-operations maintenance, but there's nothing definitely needed (and if there was it would be very clearly indicated) - RTR is literally RTR.

Now, if the British stuff was being produced by the nationalised British Model Railway Corporation in a grimy factory by a bunch of fat-fingered blokes working to rule during the few minutes not on a tea break, I'd understand that a certain amount of TLC would be necessary before serious running commences, but it's 2014 so what are Japanese manufacturers doing which is different to the "British" ones?

[Dr Al]

Now, if the British stuff was being produced by the nationalised British Model Railway Corporation in a grimy factory by a bunch of fat-fingered blokes working to rule during the few minutes not on a tea break, I'd understand that a certain amount of TLC would be necessary before serious running commences, but it's 2014 so what are Japanese manufacturers doing which is different to the "British" ones?

Japanese models often use low friction mechanisms with self lubricating plastics, that don't need external lubrication.

To be honest, I think the requirement that Dapol place on lubrication is overkill (I don't believe Farish have any requirement in this way, though both manufacturers locos come with factory grease lubricant already applied). Farish models shouldn't need anything straight out of the box; Dapol say to lubricate (though I doubt it makes significant difference for their low friction mechanisms).

In time, both manufacturers models benefit from very light oiling of the geartrain. The motors used now generally have self lubricating Phosphor bearings so nothing is required. Something to watch is that recent Farish and Dapol steam and diesel have such bearings on the wheelsets and these are the pickups - they should*not* be oiled as this can seriously affect conductivity and running (see the Dapol 57xx thread).

HTH,
Alan

[johnlambert]

To be honest, I think the requirement that Dapol place on lubrication is overkill (I don't believe Farish have any requirement in this way, though both manufacturers locos come with factory grease lubricant already applied). Farish models shouldn't need anything straight out of the box; Dapol say to lubricate (though I doubt it makes significant difference for their low friction mechanisms).

HTH,
Alan

Before last year's N Gauge Show I was asked by a friend to speak to Graham Farish about what servicing the 5MT needed.  The answer was pretty much what you've said and they get more returned locos with problems due to over oiling than under oiling (I think that's what he said).

[railsquid]

To be honest, I think the requirement that Dapol place on lubrication is overkill (I don't believe Farish have any requirement in this way, though both manufacturers locos come with factory grease lubricant already applied). Farish models shouldn't need anything straight out of the box; Dapol say to lubricate (though I doubt it makes significant difference for their low friction mechanisms).

HTH,
Alan

Before last year's N Gauge Show I was asked by a friend to speak to Graham Farish about what servicing the 5MT needed.  The answer was pretty much what you've said and they get more returned locos with problems due to over oiling than under oiling (I think that's what he said).

Coincidentally one of my acquisitions this weekend was a Graham Farish 5MT, and the instructions say it does need running in but doesn't say anything about requiring oiling before running.

[railsquid]

Now, if the British stuff was being produced by the nationalised British Model Railway Corporation in a grimy factory by a bunch of fat-fingered blokes working to rule during the few minutes not on a tea break, I'd understand that a certain amount of TLC would be necessary before serious running commences, but it's 2014 so what are Japanese manufacturers doing which is different to the "British" ones?

Japanese models often use low friction mechanisms with self lubricating plastics, that don't need external lubrication.

To be honest, I think the requirement that Dapol place on lubrication is overkill (I don't believe Farish have any requirement in this way, though both manufacturers locos come with factory grease lubricant already applied). Farish models shouldn't need anything straight out of the box; Dapol say to lubricate (though I doubt it makes significant difference for their low friction mechanisms).

In time, both manufacturers models benefit from very light oiling of the geartrain. The motors used now generally have self lubricating Phosphor bearings so nothing is required. Something to watch is that recent Farish and Dapol steam and diesel have such bearings on the wheelsets and these are the pickups - they should*not* be oiled as this can seriously affect conductivity and running (see the Dapol 57xx thread).

HTH,
Alan

Yup, most enlightening, many thanks! I hadn't heard of "self lubricating plastics" before. But why is running-in required?

[Newportnobby]

Coincidentally one of my acquisitions this weekend was a Graham Farish 5MT, and the instructions say it does need running in but doesn't say anything about requiring oiling before running.

Irrespective of further replies, following a tip by a friend I always give the motion of steam locos a light oiling before running them which does appear to help, especially on Farish tender driven locos.

[Dr Al]

Yup, most enlightening, many thanks! I hadn't heard of "self lubricating plastics" before. But why is running-in required?

After a little running most mechanisms always perform better - this initial running (running-in) allows all the parts to settle and any rough surfaces or corners to be lightly worn off and smooth running surfaces, bearings, motor brushes etc.

Of course, some say there is no such thing as 'running in', it's all 'wearing out' 

Cheers,
Alan

[EtchedPixels]

Most of the Farish over-oiling I have seen is straight from the factory with models sitting in pools of oil and it sometimes even soaking into and staining the foam 

Self lubricating plastics contain substances that as they wear leave the surface lubricated. Similar things can be done with some metals, and some woods do it naturally - a fact clock makers have exploited for a very long time.

The models are also often shipped with a transit grease applied. That is designed to protect the mechanism against the continuous vibration while being shipped and to break down when you add a little bit of oil. If you get a newish loco that runs better as it warms up it often indicates there is undissolved transit grease present.

Alan

[railsquid]

Just for the record, I purchased a new Fleischmann locomotive in Germany, and the guy in the shop suggested to run it in for 30 minutes in each direction, even though this wasn't mentioned in the instructions.

[Bealman]

Thanks for kicking this thread off... I have never understood the term 'running in' even with cars. Surely if you buy a car, jump in it and drive it, it's running', innit?

Same with model locos.... get 'em out box, put on layout, run 'em.

If that's not running in, then I don't know the real meaning of the term. I don't own a rolling road, and all my new stock from 2010 onwards is still in boxes awaiting complete layout restoration. However, when I do get a unit out of the box every now and again, it runs fine - including my beloved BP!!

I really think that this running in business is a crock of.

As noted in previous posts, I think that over-lubrication is more of a problem.

[railsquid]

To quote the generic Bachmann product maintenance instructions: "(Running in) will allow the gears in the mechanism to bed in and provide smooth operation."

Presumably Japanese manufacturers provide pre-bedded-in gears.

Meanwhile, while running in the previously mentioned Fleischmann, it came to a sudden stop after a few laps and there's clearly something wrong - the lights still work but it causes a short circuit once a certain amount of power has been applied.

[Bealman]

I think it's run out 

[DesertHound]

I think it's run out 

Maybe it needs re-filling with diesel Railsquid 

[railsquid]

Hmm, maybe the keys fell out of the ignition or something.

[longbridge]

In a nutshell the Japanese owned N scale manufacturers make a far superior model than Dapol or GF, I had many Japanese made locos between 2005 & 2007 and never had a single problem, that includes trams.

MicroAce, Kato, Tomix and Modemo trains and trams give years of trouble free service, even so I still love our British steam locos and have resided to the fact that I can expect trouble from time to time.