Sonic have announced a range of Vanwide Ventilated Vans, available in triple packs.
Due in Q3 of 2024, liveries include BR Bauxite (early and late), BR Freight Brown, BR Olive Green, BR Railfreight (Red/Grey).
Each livery is available in packs of 3.
From Rails of Sheffield's Website:
Due to pressure from large customers BR developed a box van design with sliding doors, the Vanwide to Diagram 1/217, with standard dimensions of 17ft 6 inch length with a 10ft wheelbase. The sides were of plywood construction with flush doors that moved out slightly thus enabling them to slide down the sides, so alleviating the problem of confined locations. The end walls were made from corrugated metal sheeting. The door opening method made a door aperture of 9ft possible which aided loading of pallets by fork lift truck. It was this wider door opening that gave rise to the code name. The build was between Wolverton works and Derby works with nearly 2000 being built between 1961 - 1962.
The VEA vans were refurbished versions of the Vanwide and fitted with air brakes from 1977 to suit customers who could not handle the longer wheelbase of more modern designs of wagon. A total of 550 wagons were converted. They were used on Speedlink trains as well as military specials. A decline in MOD requirements led to most of the wagons being withdrawn in the early 1990s with just a handful finding further use in the departmental fleets. However many survived in internal use at Army bases. Several examples survive into preservation.
Just a rehash of the ones revolution did not so long ago ?
Interesting enough choice of models but of course duplicates the NGS kit 61 which is a shame.
Not one I feel an overwhelming urge to pre-order with a non-refundable deposit payable, but I may be tempted buy a pack further down the line once released.
Roy
Packet of 3 ordered. (Something for the weekend, Sir?)
Quote from: Spanners70 on December 07, 2023, 12:20:36 PMJust a rehash of the ones revolution did not so long ago ?
No, not quite.
They were produced by Sonic with Revolution promoting and distributing them.
I believe the springing has been remodelled to show the difference.
Yes, it does duplicate the Society kit, but this is not the first time the RTR market, not just Sonic, have done this. The underframe and chassis will be more accurate than the Peco one.
Martyn
Quote from: martyn on December 07, 2023, 01:12:19 PMI believe the springing has been remodelled to show the difference.
Yes, it does duplicate the Society kit, but this is not the first time the RTR market, not just Sonic, have done this. The underframe and chassis will be more accurate than the Peco one.
Brake type, Springing and axle bearings were changed when they were rebuilt to VEA. Air brakes replaced vacuum whilst roller bearings replaced plain bearings.
It's not just the main manufacturers; The NGS has produced RTR models that duplicate kits too. The Mk1 carflat and LMS Inspection saloon replicated Etched Pixels/Ultima kits. They rendered their own Queen Mary brake van kit redundant with a RTR model. The VIX ferry van used to be available from Mill Lane Sidings.
Steven B
Instead of springing, maybe I should have said underframe/chassis changed to reflect the differences.
At least I believe so, anyway
Martyn
I just hope people don't start mixing these with vacuum braked wagons in the same train, that would be sooo wrong.
Quote from: Chris Morris on December 07, 2023, 01:51:57 PMI just hope people don't start mixing these with vacuum braked wagons in the same train, that would be sooo wrong.
Hi
Surely that depends on which pack you order as some of these are vacuum braked vans. For example S2301-02
Cheers
Paul
I'm obviously a basic level train buff, must enrol in rivet counting course think the difference is abit too small for me to notice haha basically look the same to me....
Quote from: PaulCheffus on December 07, 2023, 02:11:02 PMQuote from: Chris Morris on December 07, 2023, 01:51:57 PMI just hope people don't start mixing these with vacuum braked wagons in the same train, that would be sooo wrong.
Hi
Surely that depends on which pack you order as some of these are vacuum braked vans. For example S2301-02
Cheers
Paul
You are right, in fact there are more vacuum fitted versions than air brake versions in this release. I just couldn't run a train with a mix of air and vacuum braked wagons. Ok - I could run all the air braked wagons next to the loco and then the vacuum braked wagons. A train such as this would need a brake van even in the 1970s.
Quote from: Spanners70 on December 07, 2023, 02:27:51 PMI'm obviously a basic level train buff, must enrol in rivet counting course think the difference is abit too small for me to notice haha basically look the same to me....
The difference might not be noticeable to the naked eye but if I had put the train together then I would know. I just could not be happy with that.
The Revolution model wasn't applicable to those like myself who model the transition era so for me it's a very welcome announcement. Mind you I do have 2 Society kits waiting to be made up.
David
Nice to see another run of the Railfreight VEAs as well as part of this announcement.
A very nice series of additions to the RTR range. I will certainly be ordering several packs. (Even though I have some NGS kit ones made and more to complete.)
To go with it's earlier descendent the Vanfit which Peco appear to have a new version of coming:
https://www.hattons.co.uk/1534516/peco_products_nr_2008xm_12_ton_box_van_vanfit_in_santa_s_workshop_christmas_2023_red_and_green/stockdetail
That is definitely a new chassis design and a bit much for just a Santa special.
what does the yellow circle to the left on the van signify on the vmv vans?
were these xp vmv ones used for explosives?
cheers
tim
I've been sent these photos from Sonic of the EPs for the VEA (already released) and vanwide, which show the differences between the two.
In all three photos, the light grey EP is the air braked VEA, the light brown one the vacuum braked Vanwide.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/137/447-071223191047.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=137719)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/137/447-071223191115.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=137720)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/137/447-071223191142.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=137721)
I hope that these clarify and show the differences that Sonic have made between the two types on van.
Martyn
Quote from: martyn on December 07, 2023, 07:12:34 PMI've been sent these photos from Sonic of the EPs for the VEA (already released) and vanwide, which show the differences between the two.
In all three photos, the light grey EP is the air braked VEA, the light brown one the vacuum braked Vanwide.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/137/447-071223191047.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=137719)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/137/447-071223191115.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=137720)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/137/447-071223191142.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=137721)
I hope that these clarify and show the differences that Sonic have made between the two types on van.
Martyn
Yes indeed, thank you, it is impressive, the attention to detail is clear and differences between the two quite noticeable.
Roy
Lots of underframe detail.....................................never to be seen unless a derailment means the wagon ends up on its side
v nice
it's a shame they are only available in triple packs.
if they really must be sold in 3s then why not make a variety pack?
often tops coded and non tops coded ran together in the 70s for example. sonic could offer a mix up of the bauxite vacuum braked versions.
I'm a bit fed up of this new trend for triple packs. esp. when it is wagons that ran singularly or in mixed trains. fair enough if they only ran in block trains.
quite a few people might want a one or two, just to add to a mixed rake, but won't want 3 completely identical wagons (ok, different wagon numbers, but otherwise identical). could at least mix it a bit with the labels and style (stencils or panels for tops codes, maintenance labels, explosives warnings, etc).
cheers for the pics btw martyn.
tim
Quote from: bluedepot on December 07, 2023, 04:41:39 PMwhat does the yellow circle to the left on the van signify on the vmv vans?
were these xp vmv ones used for explosives?
cheers
tim
Hi
It could be the ABN symbol but I can't make out the detail from the photo
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: PaulCheffus on December 07, 2023, 09:25:22 PMIt could be the ABN symbol but I can't make out the detail from the photo
It won't be ABN (Air brake network, precursor to Speedlink) on a vacuum braked wagon.
Opening up an individual image on the Rails website:
https://railsofsheffield.com/cdn/shop/files/S2301-05C_V2_R2_1080x.jpg?v=1701100469
And zooming in suggests it's "CRCUT" with a down arrow.
"CRCUT" is short for circuit, indicating that the van was used on a set traffic flow (circuit working). The arrow points down to the wagon label clip to improve the chances that shunters keep the wagon on the set route prescribed by the wagon label.
Photos of the vacuum braked vans show that they carried diamond shaped explosive warning labels in a similar manner to the air braked VEA conversions. Railtec produce a transfer sheet that should be suitable: https://railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=3665
Steven B
Quote from: bluedepot on December 07, 2023, 09:12:43 PMit's a shame they are only available in triple packs.
if they really must be sold in 3s then why not make a variety pack?
Rapido are doing the same with the SECR and OAA wagons. I agree it's a bit frustrating but if it's a choice between triple packs and no wagon I'd take the triple pack.
As for variety within the pack I certainly agree, but then for every modeller wanting three different wagons there's be another wanting them all the same. Manufacturers can't make every combination available
- so they have to upset someone.
- I'm sure there's someone (Accurascale?) planning on selling OO models with a pick-your-own box set available as an option
Steven B
ah ok yeh circuit makes sense! thanks.
i may buy two packs and then swap or sell some.
yeh i actually may have some suitable decals already with explosives warnings on as i made some mod containers ages ago. ill see if I have any decals left.
it will be interesting to compare the vanwide with the new peco vanfit for detail and quality.
cheers
tim
Quote from: bluedepot on December 07, 2023, 09:12:43 PMv nice
it's a shame they are only available in triple packs.
if they really must be sold in 3s then why not make a variety pack?
often tops coded and non tops coded ran together in the 70s for example. sonic could offer a mix up of the bauxite vacuum braked versions.
I'm a bit fed up of this new trend for triple packs. esp. when it is wagons that ran singularly or in mixed trains. fair enough if they only ran in block trains.
quite a few people might want a one or two, just to add to a mixed rake, but won't want 3 completely identical wagons (ok, different wagon numbers, but otherwise identical). could at least mix it a bit with the labels and style (stencils or panels for tops codes, maintenance labels, explosives warnings, etc).
cheers for the pics btw martyn.
tim
I think it was Rapido who said that multi-packs is the only way for them to make N wagons viable at a price-point that modellers would find acceptable, and as an even smaller player in the N market at this point that appears to also be true of Sonic.
To be fair, three Vanwides of this quality working out at a shade over £23 a wagon seems quite a reasonable deal to me, and surely it wouldn't be beyond the capability of Forum members who so wish to work together and split sets and/or offer swaps to others?
Roy
I've looked through the Paul Bartlett site and determined that for me running a 1960s/70s era the only ones that suit are the BR Bauxite (Early) XP labelled wagons (which are not in fact that early, being 1968-75 ish) and the Freight Brown C-XP (which are around 1977-80 ish). All the others are 1980s or 1990s versions.
I wonder if Revolution had a hand in this wagon at all?
Bob
Quote from: Bob G on December 10, 2023, 07:15:16 PMI've looked through the Paul Bartlett site and determined that for me running a 1960s/70s era the only ones that suit are the BR Bauxite (Early) XP labelled wagons (which are not in fact that early, being 1968-75 ish) and the Freight Brown C-XP (which are around 1977-80 ish). All the others are 1980s or 1990s versions.
I wonder if Revolution had a hand in this wagon at all?
Bob
@Bob G From the Rails newsletter which led me to order a triple pack of late bauxite ones
Due to pressure from large customers BR developed a box van design with sliding doors, the Vanwide to Diagram 1/217, with standard dimensions of 17ft 6 inch length with a 10ft wheelbase. The sides were of plywood construction with flush doors that moved out slightly thus enabling them to slide down the sides, so alleviating the problem of confined locations. The end walls were made from corrugated metal sheeting. The door opening method made a door aperture of 9ft possible which aided loading of pallets by fork lift truck. It was this wider door opening that gave rise to the code name.
The build was between Wolverton works and Derby works with nearly 2000 being built between 1961 - 1962.
Quote from: Newportnobby on December 10, 2023, 07:37:37 PMQuote from: Bob G on December 10, 2023, 07:15:16 PMI've looked through the Paul Bartlett site and determined that for me running a 1960s/70s era the only ones that suit are the BR Bauxite (Early) XP labelled wagons (which are not in fact that early, being 1968-75 ish) and the Freight Brown C-XP (which are around 1977-80 ish). All the others are 1980s or 1990s versions.
I wonder if Revolution had a hand in this wagon at all?
Bob
@Bob G
From the Rails newsletter which led me to order a triple pack of late bauxite ones
Due to pressure from large customers BR developed a box van design with sliding doors, the Vanwide to Diagram 1/217, with standard dimensions of 17ft 6 inch length with a 10ft wheelbase. The sides were of plywood construction with flush doors that moved out slightly thus enabling them to slide down the sides, so alleviating the problem of confined locations. The end walls were made from corrugated metal sheeting. The door opening method made a door aperture of 9ft possible which aided loading of pallets by fork lift truck. It was this wider door opening that gave rise to the code name. The build was between Wolverton works and Derby works with nearly 2000 being built between 1961 - 1962.
Mick is correct.
The dia. 1/217 vans were, according to 'British Railways Wagons, the first half million' by Rowland, built at Wolverton and Derby on three lots, the final lot from Derby having translucent roofs. It says they were all delivered in 1962. The book also says they were not coded as Vanwides when built, but 'later'.
A total of 1994 were built.
The design work was done by the Sonic team.
Martyn
Hi
@Newportnobby and
@martyn I dig all that and I have read it previously - so I originally reckoned that a late BR bauxite wagon would be right for my era, but when you look at Paul Bartlett's site the markings on the BR Bauxite Early wagons were similar to those photographed by Paul Bartlett in the 1960s and early 1970s.
The BR bauxite late and BR Freight Brown liveries are clearly post TOPS and were photographed by Paul Bartlett post 1975 and into the 1980s, and the Olive liveries in the 1990s.
So while the wagon was 1961 onwards, only the early bauxite livery (which actually means the earliest bauxite livery carried by these wagons, rather than early bauxite which Bachmann use as a description for 1950s bauxite livery, which was a lighter bauxite) applies for true transition era modellers.
Hence my question about Revolution as they seem to know more about the later variants of prototypes such as these, which seem to be better represented by Sonic than earlier variants.
Anyway, I think I might get three of the earliest version, because based on previous discussions, bauxite is any shade of brown and dirt that you fancy :) .
Thanks
Bob
PS
@martyn don't ever say Mick is correct. Even in jest. He will absorb all that positive energy and explode into a million fragments :)
Hello all,
Just to confirm that, other than agreeing it was a good idea, Revolution has had no involvement in this model.
It is all down those working with Sonic Models.
In terms of liveries, the further you go back in time the harder research into specific wagon liveries becomes; in the 1950s, 60s and early 70s it seems clear that photographers tended to reserve expensive film for important things like locomotives.
Indeed, it is only thanks to the foresight of photographers such as Paul Bartlett that we have any kind of record of these important vehicles at all.
cheers
Ben A.
hi everyone
sorry to go off at a tangent, but which 4 wheel small vans (10 or 12 tons) lasted the longest on br in revenue service?
i know vea lasted for mod use. and original vanwides lasted a while too as per this thread.
how late did non br designed and built vans operate?
I know a few went into departmental and stores use but just wondered which other small vans managed to last the longest in actual revenue use.
tim
I think you'll have to study David Larkin's Working Wagon books to get an answer to that.
Quote from: bluedepot on March 10, 2024, 10:30:21 AMhow late did non br designed and built vans operate?
Have a look through the various folders within Paul Bartlett's site:
https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagons
A quick look suggests most wagons to pre-1948 designs were gone by the end of the 1960s. Vacuum fitted and specialist wagons tended to last longer. Many survived beyond that in departmental/internal user roles. ICI's bogie limestone hoppers were built between 1936 and 1953 with many still running in the 1980s.
Steven B
cheers for the replies.
I looked through a lot of van pictures on the paul b website now!
interesting to see the vans that ended up as stores vans and departmental use
also interesting to see the vans built by br but to big four designs too.
anyway I have a br plywood fruit van on the way, bought on ebay. i may weather it and recode it with a z tops codes. i also have two standard 12 t vans coded vvv and some sonic vanwides on order.
I am becoming addicted to collecting rolling stock, but I enjoy looking up info on the real wagons and looking at pictures or preserved wagons.
cheers
tim
Quote from: bluedepot on March 14, 2024, 10:51:32 AMalso interesting to see the vans built by br but to big four designs too.
BR continued to build locos, coaches and wagons to pre-nationalisation designs for many years. The Mk1 carriage didn't appear until three years after nationalisation. Many of the wagon types were later still.
Steven B