Frustration with Dapol and Farish Pre-orders

[austinbob]

Agrippa actually validates the subtly nuanced point Drucker was making some 60 yrs ago.  If you do not meet the expectations of your customers, profits start to fall (M&S) and the business, in extremis, may fail (BL).  You identify and evaluate your market, and how you can service it, first.  That is what produces the profits which a business needs to survive and maybe grow.  Customers are needed before you make profits.

He also draw attention to the fact that given the UK N Gauge market is small, we do not have the discipline of strong competition. We have a near duopoly.  That puts and even greater obligation on manufacturers to act responsibly, treat their customers with proper courtesy and respect.  And that includes producing quality products (OK not a problem for me but seems to be for at least some).  Also if you publish timescales, then that same courtesy demands you report back on them.

If, like me, we want to carry on with UK modelling and not change to European, American etc, or revert to OO, we have virtually no choice but to continue to buy what comes out when it comes out.  But it does not follow from that we should blindly accept all that is thrown at us without challenge.  Any more than we blindly accept train/plane delays without putting in for any compensation to which we are entitled or complaining when such delays are normal occurrence (The Thameslink route for example)

The fact that I may not be able to change anything, and may buy anyway - though I have once cancelled an order and changed plans - is not relevant.  As the customers we have the right to know simply because we are customers,  the manufacturer's life blood, and should be treated as such; with basic courtesy.  If they have placed plans and dates in the public domain, such information is no longer commercial in confidence.  So tell us and if we are given a simple reason, such as the quality of the first delivery of A2s was poor, or the ship sunk, then while we may well moan a bit, I suspect most of us will trust manufacturers far more.

While there may be risks of  developing a culture of complaining, at least the balance between customers and suppliers has become less one sided, in recent years.

Loud cheering, merryment and jollity - what a brilliant reply. This reflects my feelings almost exactly.

[ScottyStitch]

Sorry, but I still think he's wrong. The original statement was something along the line sof "a business exists to serve it's customers". No, a business exists to make money. End of. If it stops making money, it won't be a business for very long, no matter how well they serve their customers.

It makes money by providing some kind of service, granted, but the primary reason for anyone running a business is to make money. I'm desparately trying to think of a commercial business that has serving it's customers over making money as a priority?

Again, the original poster stated that late product was unacceptable. Maybe we're in the realms of symantics now, but if it's unacceptable to the OP, then he wouldn't be buying it.

Either way, it's obvious we are going round and round in circles, and we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[MikeDunn]

and we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I'm sorry, but I just have to disagree about that !!! 

[Portpatrick]

Again, the original poster stated that late product was unacceptable. Maybe we're in the realms of symantics now, but if it's unacceptable to the OP, then he wouldn't be buying it.

Either way, it's obvious we are going round and round in circles, and we'll just have to agree to disagree.

He/we buy it because we want it and there is usually no other means of sourcing it.  Such is the balance of power in the market.  But it does not follow that continual delays , without notification in similar ways to original announcements, are or should be acceptable to us.  Nor does it follow that if we find such things unacceptable  we should shut up and accept such treatment meekly.
 
However as you say we must agree to differ.  Perhaps like you, I bow out.

[austinbob]

No, a business exists to make money. End of. If it stops making money, it won't be a business for very
long, no matter how well they serve their customers.
It makes money by providing some kind of service, granted, but the primary reason for anyone running a business is to make money.

I think what you have said is just so wrong ScottyStitch. Lets turn your words round a little bit.

"A business exists to make money by providing its customers with a required product fit for purpose and to promised delivery dates."

No happy customers - no business - no money. So the focus has to be satisfied customers in order for a business to make money. 

[Agrippa]

I think all has been said on this topic, but no doubt someone will get the last word in.

Simple solution , buy Union Mills stuff, can be ordered and delivered
within a day, comes on the boat from IoM !

[austinbob]

I think all has been said on this topic, but no doubt someone will get the last word in.

You're right Agrippa - bye for now on this topic.

[Sprintex]

There is no right answer - some people are incensed by delays and unavailability of items, others just accept it as a part of life. No point arguing over what is essentially a difference of opinion


Paul

[ScottyStitch]

I think what you have said is just so wrong ScottyStitch. Lets turn your words round a little bit.

"A business exists to make money by providing its customers with a required product fit for purpose and to promised delivery dates."

No happy customers - no business - no money. So the focus has to be satisfied customers in order for a business to make money. 

Okay Bob, I'll bite.

Although, it actually sounds like you agree with me to be fair.

If I gave you 2000 Farish locomotives at half the going rate, what would be your primary concern? Well it would be to either give them away at cost or for free (very philanthopic but hardly the definition of a commecrial business) or to try and make at least a little mark up, wouldn't it? so you're primary reason for taking the items would be to make some money not to provide a service to your fellow modellers. Servicing (pardon the phrase) yourmodellers would be a necessary mechanism for making that mark up. If you could make money without having to provide anything, I think you know we all would!!! Now, to paraphrase your final point, if not enough happy customers, then the likelihood of no repeat business, so you'd have to do enough, service-wise, to satisfy the vast majority of your customers. In the past the business world would call that the Cost of Performing v the Cost of Not Performing. So it is likely that Farish, Dapol, et al, have actually assessed that the cost of taking back returns and doing repairs, is more economical than trying to get 100%, 100% of the time 100% on time.

I think the vast majority of Farish and Dapol customers are happy enough, or they wouldnt be in business still.

By all means give the manufactures feedback, or complain, but doing it here, well that's not going to do much is it, so write a nicely worded and constructive letter to them instead. If enough unsatisfied customers were to do that, then maybe then you can get things changed to your satisfaction. And if it's thatimportant, complain, and don't buy, because otherwise you're just feeding the system that you're finding so unacceptable. No? If you bought a cream cake and found it unacceptable, would you keep going back and buying that same cream cake from the same bakers, all the while complaining it was sub-standard?......

Oh, and there's that word again "promised".

I'll let you have the last word.

Happy modelling, and I sincerely hope you eventually get all the models you wish for.

Scotty

[austinbob]

Peace ScottyStitch. Lets get back to playing trains.

[ScottyStitch]

Peace ScottyStitch. Lets get back to playing trains.

Absolutely mate, no hard feelings at all! 

[Newportnobby]

Maybe one of the Mods can have the final word by locking this roundy roundy thread

[ScottyStitch]

Maybe one of the Mods can have the final word by locking this roundy roundy thread

Not sure there's any need Mick, I think we've all had our say and parted as fellow NGFers