received as a Fathers Day present from eldest daughter the book
"RETURN OF THE DAM BUSTERS" what 617 squadron did next, by John Nichol, the Tornado pilot shot down and captured by the Iraqis in the first gulf war.
got me once again thinking about the courage of the bomber crews in the second world war, suffering horrendous casualties night after night, and then vilified after the war by the mamby-pamby do gooders for the results of their raids.
as they say, "as ye sow, so shall ye reap", and the Nazi's sowed, and thanks to the bravery of the bomber command crews, boy did they reap :thumbsup:
amazing how quickly the do-gooders forgot London, Coventry, Liverpool etc, but hey that's what they do.
I wonder how many of them would have had the courage to go out, night after night, seeing their friends shot down, and knowing that they could be next, then flying straight and level over a heavily defended target while their bomb aimer placed his bomb load on the markers ?
most likely none, they would no doubt have been down in the shelters hiding while real heros, who they would deride, protected them.
I look forward to sitting down this evening with the book and a couple of drams, but it will be uppermost in my mind that 617 was not the only squadron, hundreds of others went out night after night, suffering horrendous casualties, and I cannot say, with hand on heart, that I would have had their courage.
rant over
My first Father's Day today.
As requested, only received a small token (a rather nice personal key ring from "The Gremlin" and some favourite choccy).
I may have also placed an order from a certain Liverpool supplier, which will be explained away as a "Fathers Day offer" :whistle:
Ref the above and Bomber Command, I cannot fault the bravery of aircrew. Bombers were literal sitting ducks for most of WWII, and that's before you add much higher mechanical failure rates and a belly full of bombs to the equation.
At least the RAF had a policy of using the cover of night, pity the poor US aircrew and their daylight raids :o
If you like the Dam Busters book @class37025 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=311) , I can recommend a book (I can let you know the exact title and author) on the 15th Airforce and it's operations from Italy. The 8th Airforce "got the glory" (as the song went, not my view!) with their B-17s, but the 15th equipped mainly with B-24s also went through the mill.
Skyline2uk
would really appreciate that, @Skyline2uk (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1081)
Will look when I get home :thumbsup:
Skyline2uk
A happy Father's Day to all dads - may you be proud of your children!
I would take slight issue with Class37025's first post. I agree that the bomber crews were among the bravest of the brave - I'm damned sure I couldn't have done it - but I think it's wrong to imply that those who stayed behind lacked courage. Some had to stay because they did vital jobs (railwaymen, for example) and somebody had to keep the country going. Others went about their normal business then listened as the bombs fell around them at night and then went out to put out the fires and retrieve the dead and wounded. Thousands of civilians suffered and died across Europe. Where is their memorial? Nobody lays a wreath in their memory. And don't forget the Home Guard. Their part has been distorted by the amusing antics of Dad's Army, but if the Germans had invaded they would have defended bravely to the last man (or woman). I have a photograph of my grandfather, grandmother and uncle in their Civil Defence uniforms. My grandfather came back from the first world war with one leg missing but he would still have laid down his life for his country. Lacking courage? I don't think so.
Chris
I got 4 bars of Milka chocolate and a Toblerone......sorted :thumbsup: :D
What is supposed to happen on Father's day??
sniff :(
Quote from: class37025 on June 16, 2019, 02:11:40 PM
received as a Fathers Day present from eldest daughter the book
"RETURN OF THE DAM BUSTERS" what 617 squadron did next, by John Nichol, the Tornado pilot shot down and captured by the Iraqis in the first gulf war.
got me once again thinking about the courage of the bomber crews in the second world war, suffering horrendous casualties night after night, and then vilified after the war by the mamby-pamby do gooders for the results of their raids.
as they say, "as ye sow, so shall ye reap", and the Nazi's sowed, and thanks to the bravery of the bomber command crews, boy did they reap :thumbsup:
amazing how quickly the do-gooders forgot London, Coventry, Liverpool etc, but hey that's what they do.
I wonder how many of them would have had the courage to go out, night after night, seeing their friends shot down, and knowing that they could be next, then flying straight and level over a heavily defended target while their bomb aimer placed his bomb load on the markers ?
most likely none, they would no doubt have been down in the shelters hiding while real heros, who they would deride, protected them.
I look forward to sitting down this evening with the book and a couple of drams, but it will be uppermost in my mind that 617 was not the only squadron, hundreds of others went out night after night, suffering horrendous casualties, and I cannot say, with hand on heart, that I would have had their courage.
rant over
As a now former member of the modern 617 Sqn, I can assure you that the attributes displayed by those that flew and those that remained on the ground to support them during the war are very much still the order of the day. Being a member of the squadron was a matter of great pride to all from the CO to the night shift cook. I thoroughly enjoyed my years on the squadron and, despite being much changed in the decades that have passed everyone associated is still proud to be a mud mover :D
Apres moi le deluge
Re Bomber Command these guys were the bravest of the brave, a pal of my Dad's was a Lancaster
pilot who survived, flying a big multiengined plane for hours and knacked for hours afterwards, also pay
tribute to USAAF aircrew who did daylight raids, many of them very young (Memphis Belle etc) one
of the best movies covering that period is 12'Oclock High (Gregory Peck).
Quote from: Railwaygun on June 16, 2019, 04:57:43 PM
What is supposed to happen on Father's day??
sniff :(
your loving and appreciative offspring give you cards and gifts to show their love and appreciation ...
or not :-\
"night shift cook"
ahhhh :thumbsup: duty supper, and airman's mess rules .......
1. take as much as you want....
2. eat all you take..... :)
some of the best meals I ate in the RAF
amazing how good a fresh fry up would taste after 6 hours patrolling the airfield :food:
@class37025 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=311) (and anybody else), can't get the picture up, but the book I mentioned earlier is "Wild Blue" by Stephen E Ambrose.
Turns out he was the same chap who wrote "Band of Brothers".
Skyline2uk
My son got me p****d on Adnams ghost beer (?) at the Paris HQ of the French Manchester United Supporters Club.
At least I know now how he is mispending his mispent youth :beers: :beers:
I had a lovely day at home with my family, my dad and my wife's granddad. Food, tea and homemade cake! Then, up onto the garage roof for a couple of hours to find and repair a leak that covered my tools in a pool of water, and ruined an iPhone that I use for music. :(
Now catching up on today's posts and problems! :D
Father's Day isn't until September here :P
As a quick aside, I was lent a book called SPITFIRE when I was in hospital recently. It too was a great read. Was that by John Nichol?
It was one of the best books I've read!
Quote from: Skyline2uk on June 16, 2019, 08:52:19 PM
@class37025 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=311) (and anybody else), can't get the picture up, but the book I mentioned earlier is "Wild Blue" by Stephen E Ambrose.
Turns out he was the same chap who wrote "Band of Brothers".
Skyline2uk
many thanks,
found it .......
bought it ......
now just need to wait for it
Father's day, apparently is nine months before Mother's day, who'd have thought it :D
My Dad died when I was only 17 ,He was in the army and was down in Southampton Docks and just walking up the gang plank to go abroad when his name amongst others was called out ,they were TOLD to go back on the dock and were sent back to the barracks . My Dad was a farm worker and was then sent back to Henley on Thames where he lived to help teach the land girls how to work on the land and look after the animals .
If he went out any where he was being jeered at and called all sorts of names the mildest of which was that he was a cowerd .But men and women like him were just as important , as those that couldn't fight still had to be fed, so men and women milked the cows fed the chickens looked after the pigs and sheep .
He also helped fire watching at night and if there was an incedent he was allways there to help .
He met my mum who was a nurse while on fire watch .
Bob Tidbury
Hi
Here is on 19th March the father's day (festa del papà)
Greetings from Italy.
Marco
Quote from: class37025 on June 17, 2019, 12:08:38 AM
Quote from: Skyline2uk on June 16, 2019, 08:52:19 PM
@class37025 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=311) (and anybody else), can't get the picture up, but the book I mentioned earlier is "Wild Blue" by Stephen E Ambrose.
Turns out he was the same chap who wrote "Band of Brothers".
Skyline2uk
arrived today, and next on my reading list after 617 squadron.
many thanks for the link,
many thanks,
found it .......
bought it ......
now just need to wait for it
@class37025 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=311)
You are welcome, hope you enjoy it.
I do have some other books on the Second World War air campaigns, but won't mention them just yet in case this recommendation was a dud :doh:
Skyline2uk
Quote from: Bob Tidbury on June 17, 2019, 07:24:21 PM
My Dad died when I was only 17 ,He was in the army and was down in Southampton Docks and just walking up the gang plank to go abroad when his name amongst others was called out ,they were TOLD to go back on the dock and were sent back to the barracks . My Dad was a farm worker and was then sent back to Henley on Thames where he lived to help teach the land girls how to work on the land and look after the animals .
If he went out any where he was being jeered at and called all sorts of names the mildest of which was that he was a cowerd .But men and women like him were just as important , as those that couldn't fight still had to be fed, so men and women milked the cows fed the chickens looked after the pigs and sheep .
He also helped fire watching at night and if there was an incedent he was allways there to help .
He met my mum who was a nurse while on fire watch .
Bob Tidbury
My mum was forced into the womens army (ATS) she had been working in an arms factory and following an argument with a manager she jokingly said
she was going on strike. Not a good idea in wartime. One stupid aspect of WW2 was that coalminers were called up. leading to a labour shortage for the
coal industry with the result that Bevan boys were called up to work in the mines. many of whom had never held a pick or shovel before.
My Dad had joined the TA in 1938, his pal who was a TA sergeant said that when a war comes we'll train the boys who do the actual fighting.
Aye right ! My Dad spent 1942-1945 in North Africa , Sicily and Italy , the soft underbelly of Europe they said.............,
Very interesting reading all of this. We have just emigrated to Russia and got here in time for the march of the immortal regiment - we walk with pictures of those who fought in the world war 2, or as it is called here the great patrioric war. Persons depicted were mainly those no longer with us but the carriers of the pictures were split between sons, daughters and grandchildren. There werre the occasional widows and perhaps a mother or father.
Very emotional, very important to participants and hardley a trace of commercialism to detract from the feelings for the old ones. I don't seem to be able to become enthusiastic about fathers day.