Further to my intermittent crashing PC, I bought a new machine, kept the RAM and disc to the minimum spec intending to use the SSD and RAM from the intermittent one, so I lashed out £298 on a new machine with an AMD A10 series CPU/GPU 4G ram and 500G drive, no OS, no DVD drive thinking swap out the 500G for the 2TB in the old machine and same with 16G RAM.
DOOM, the CPU was the A10-9700 mine is the A10-7860 and the RAM was DDR4, mine is DDR3, as though that's not enough the A10-9700 will not run Win 7, only Win 10 cue being that the USB mouse and K/B failed to work, a PS2 K/B did work but I couldn't find a PS2 mouse. So now I have to pay return of the new heap and start the search for something that will run Win 7, no way am I going to chance Win10, I have Win 7 pro 64 and Home premium 64, it works for me on 2 PCs and a laptop. One thing I found strange was the fact that the mouse worked in BIOS set up but not in Windows.
I would have thought that a warning re only Win 10 should have been included in the write up on Ebay, OK my not catching the DDR4/DDR3 clash is my problem.
I'm finding Win10 really good and solid, running it on 3 machines including the railway laptop and not had a problem despite 1 of the computers being about 8 years old so I wouldn't discount using Win10 Mike.
Windows 10 is vastly superior to W7 IMO. You're using a heavily outdated OS, time to move on.
Re: the RAM, DDR4 is faster than DDR3, how's that a problem? You mean you've accidentally bought a computer which is better than the one you've replaced?
Quote from: Dorsetmike on February 23, 2018, 07:09:56 PM
the A10-9700 will not run Win 7, only Win 10 cue being that the USB mouse and K/B failed to work, a PS2 K/B did work but I couldn't find a PS2 mouse. So now I have to pay return of the new heap and start the search for something that will run Win 7, no way am I going to chance Win10, I have Win 7 pro 64 and Home premium 64, it works for me on 2 PCs and a laptop. One thing I found strange was the fact that the mouse worked in BIOS set up but not in Windows.
Sounds very much like the ports on the new motherboard are all USB3. Windows 7 doesn't include the drivers for USB3 controllers on the installation media, so your options there would be to either slipstream the drivers into the installation media, or buy a USB2 port card and stick it in one of the expansion slots on the motherboard.
Windows 7 is old now so you will increasingly find you can't get it to run on new hardware without a lot of pissing around. I've generally found Windows 10 to be fine - have about 160 computers with it on, and although as with all versions of Windows there are niggles, it's by and large OK. Its biggest issue us the way roaming profiles on a network play up, but that won't affect home users. It's also a lot quicker to install than previous versions as it's pretty good at finding all the drivers it needs and you don't have to manually install them as is often the case with Windows 7.
I reckon you'd be best to just buy a Windows 10 license and use that, to be honest.
Windows 10 is fine. I took advantage of the free period and updated all our PCs that could take it. I really don't understand the reluctance to adopt Win 10 unless you have some really old software or hardware that just won't work on it (which is why I still keep one pc on Win98)
For what its worth I have been very reluctant to upgrade to windows 10 even when it was being offered as a free upgrade from MS, there were at the time too many glitches that peeps were having problems with. I'm still using Win 7 on all three of my desktop PC's ( 2x 64 bit 1 x 32) with no issue's at all.
I guess sooner or later the PC that I use for my internet activity will eventually have to go win 10 for security reasons, but as for my 64 stand alone that it is going to stay 7 as there is too much valuable work and programs installed on it that I don't dare risk being screwed by an upgrade, or by myself fumbling getting accustomed to a new OS.
My PC's are 755 Dells SFF's!! :goggleeyes: Ok admittedly they have been beefed, but in the time I have had them they have outperformed all their predecessors!
Quote from: ntpntpntp on February 23, 2018, 10:15:24 PM
Windows 10 is fine. I took advantage of the free period and updated all our PCs that could take it. I really don't understand the reluctance to adopt Win 10 unless you have some really old software or hardware that just won't work on it (which is why I still keep one pc on Win98)
Win98 now that was an OS which was bolted together. From what I have been told by friends working in BT they were very reluctant to change as it was so reliable! As I remember 3.2 was ok also, state of the art in its day but knowledge of DOS was essential! ::)
Quote from: Mr Sprue on February 23, 2018, 10:26:21 PM
For what its worth I have been very reluctant to upgrade to windows 10 even when it was being offered as a free upgrade from MS, there were at the time too many glitches that peeps were having problems with.
Like what?
You do tend to hear this sort of second-hand 'somebody had problems' reason for trying to avoid new operating systems for years, but there is often no actual detail about what these supposed problems are!
It has now reached the point, though, where running Windows 7 on new hardware is getting increasingly difficult. Unless there is a reall strong reason, and in most cases there isn't, it's fairly pointless to try. I manage about 160 computers spread over 8 sites, running quite a wide variety of software, and have Windows 10 on all of them. I can't think of any programs we use which would run on Windows 7 but which wouldn't run on Windows 10.
My 2 PCs both have AMD A10 series quad core CPUs with integral GPUs with 8 cores, 256G SSDs, 2 TB HDDs and 16G DDR3 RAM, both have USB2 & USB3, (both purchased from from Ebuyer), I also have a Panasonic Toughbook that also has an AMD CPU and 120G SSD, all 3 machines run Win 7 pro 64bit; it does all that I need, runs all the software I use regularly; no problems with drivers for the OKI colour laser, Canon Scanner and plotter cutter: I'll be 84 in just over 4 weeks so don't fancy changing the way I work; both the PCs are running all day every day except when I have to go out, even then as often as not it's just switch off the monitor.
My first PC was an Amstrad 1512, 2 floppy disc drives, no hard disc; followed by an Amstrad 1640 again 2 floppies plus a 32K hard drive mounted on an extension card. OS was DR-DOS plus GEM which was an early graphical interface predating Windows by about 9 months. Before any PC I had a colour Genie, a Z80 based machine running Basic plus I also did some programming in machine code, mainly subroutines called from Basic.
So I do know me way round a computer, after the Amstrads I built my own 286 and 386 machines, didn't start using Windows until 3.1, then 95, 98, XP and now 7 which may see me out; as I have updates disabled it's likely that I won't be worried about loss of support, I don't get any now!
Nice history, Mike.
I started 'home computing' with a PCW1512 running CPM with Locoscript. It was so expensive but it did everything I needed back then - script writing and bulk mailings. The Amstrad daisy wheel printer required the user to leave the room or wear ear defenders!
Now I have a Win10 laptop and wireless networked printers, etc. How the world has changed!
I'm bound to miss the reminder for your birthday so have a great birthday when it comes. :thumbsup:
Dave G
My home computing started with a ZX80 move on to a ZX81, then a dragon 32, then a dragon 64 and then I got my first PC a 386 machine. My scientific use of computers started with a IBM 1130 main frame @ college. Now I have a i7,16 gig, 2 gig graphics, 250 gig SSD, 3 tb HD, I also have a i3 lap top both running Windows 10 which I honestly think is the best version yet, sorry to highjack your thread but I found the move from Windows 7 quite painless.
With the best will in the world Mike you're buying new hardware and expecting it to work with obsolete software. That's like lamenting the fact the newest Farish models won't work with Zero1!
I don't wish to be controversial, but if you'd kept the OS up to date maybe you wouldn't have had problems with your old computer crashing frequently...
Quote from: Ditape on February 24, 2018, 09:01:50 AM
My home computing started with a ZX80 move on to a ZX81, then a dragon 32, then a dragon 64 and then I got my first PC a 386 machine. My scientific use of computers started with a IBM 1130 main frame @ college. Now I have a i7,16 gig, 2 gig graphics, 250 gig SSD, 3 tb HD, I also have a i3 lap top both running Windows 10 which I honestly think is the best version yet, sorry to highjack your thread but I found the move from Windows 7 quite painless.
And the move from Vista to Windows 10 was an absolute joy.
The only problem i had on Windows 10 was the Creators update last fall (sorry, Autumn!). Really messed up my system when at the same time my laptop motherboard blew and i struggled to work (self-employed). Still, i am lucky to have an IT guru as a friend (sorry, subcontractor). He reads the online posts too, but he understands what they mean, and i dont. He finds almost everyone online has suffered whatever it is you are suffering, and there is always a solution (often wait for the next MS update to fix what they messed up the last time).
Bob
Quote from: njee20 on February 24, 2018, 10:05:00 AM
That's like lamenting the fact the newest Farish models won't work with Zero1!
Brilliant analogy!
Quote from: njee20 on February 24, 2018, 10:05:00 AM
I don't wish to be controversial, but if you'd kept the OS up to date maybe you wouldn't have had problems with your old computer crashing frequently...
Sound advice, especially if you're using Windows.
I do think, @Dorsetmike (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2855), at some point we, the user, go from early adopters to diehard users of old fashioned machines. Up until about 2010, I would follow every Mac update slavishly, not only reviewing new software as part of job, but diddling around with the hardware and software for fun. But I now I don't really care. I have a set-up that works really well and reliably, and the various updates and hardware revisions Apple put out there don't energise me at all.
All part of the ageing process, I guess!
Cheers, NeMo
Quote from: Dorsetmike on February 23, 2018, 11:35:32 PM
So I do know me way round a computer, after the Amstrads I built my own 286 and 386 machines, didn't start using Windows until 3.1, then 95, 98, XP and now 7 which may see me out; as I have updates disabled it's likely that I won't be worried about loss of support, I don't get any now!
If the computers are connected to the internet, blocking updates is a spectacularly bad idea - it will make them a sitting target for any malware which exploits known operating system flaws for which patches have been issued.
Quote from: njee20 on February 24, 2018, 10:05:00 AM
With the best will in the world Mike you're buying new hardware and expecting it to work with obsolete software. That's like lamenting the fact the newest Farish models won't work with Zero1!
I don't wish to be controversial, but if you'd kept the OS up to date maybe you wouldn't have had problems with your old computer crashing frequently...
There are still a lot of new PCs with Win 7 installed for sale, others with no OS but Win 7 or 8.1 as optional add ons.
The only software crash I've had was over a year ago after a Win 7 update, the recent problem was hardware. (typical find the old one or cure the fault after you buy a new one )
Thanks for al the replies but I'm sticking with Win 7 and returning the new machine for a refund.
As some one whose worked on transistor computers, and built my first computer. Thats built by soldering chips on a board not assembling by plugging in boards. I Can say win 10, is now a stable system, the first version of creator edition did cause problems but the current version is ok.
The company I work for has tens of thousands of PCs round the world, and all except for a few specialist ones are on win 10 .
Quote from: Ditape on February 24, 2018, 09:01:50 AM
My home computing started with a ZX80 move on to a ZX81.
LOL.. I can go one better than that in 1983 I had one of these before moving onto a ZX Spectrum, which is still in its box stored in my loft somewhere. I think all the boys games cassettes are with it also.
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p713/MrSprue/NGF%20Miscellaneous/aquarius-expander_zps2rlrnrab.jpg)
Machine #1 - Tandy TRS80 with 16k RAM, green screen ( leading edge tech) and cassette tape! (£640) 1979
Have now seen the light - 2017 iMac, 27" 5k screen, 2TB , and 40GB ram - bliss!
£2000
( PC waving!)
My first job involved programming an EAI (Electronic Associates Inc.) 680 analogue computer. It had removable 3ft square patch panels. This was linked to an EAI 640 digital machine (1 Kb memory).
The problem with Windows 10 is that it has a GUI that looks as if it has been designed for a 5 year old. I want an adult GUI, i.e. Classic Windows. I always assumed that I would use Linux when I retired but unfortunately all the Linux Distros these days seem to be competing to look like Windows 10.
Paul
Quotebut unfortunately all the Linux Distros these days seem to be competing to look like Windows 10.
Its the other way around, most of the "new" bells and whistles" that both micro$oft and apple have introduced have been borrowed from linux,which now seems to be going back to a plain screen without any docks or pop out side panels.
Quote from: Razzmataz on February 25, 2018, 10:21:22 AM
My first job involved programming an EAI (Electronic Associates Inc.) 680 analogue computer. It had removable 3ft square patch panels. This was linked to an EAI 640 digital machine (1 Kb memory).
Gosh, removable panels with lots and lots of tangled knitting on them to 'program' it ! EAI rings a distant bell, we had two of those as well !
I cant remember the numbers but was that the 100v analogue version ? there were not many of those and, long-shot:-, were the two of them aided and abetted by a PDP11/10 and a PDP11/45, (which got upgraded to a 32K ferrite core memory) on which we could play moon landers ( during coffee breaks! :) )
(perhaps not) fog of years but I think our digital EAI was 3660 or something with 4digits. The only 640 I remember was an IBM (or was it a 680 ?) which I never saw, we just sent off piles of punched cards and some time later the answer ( not always 42 :) ) would come back !
Quote from: themadhippy on February 25, 2018, 12:51:37 PM
from linux,which now seems to be going back to a plain screen without any docks or pop out side panels.
That's interesting, I must have another look at what is about then, the last time my Linux got an airing it was Mint and like Raz. says, they were all becoming more windows-like ( depending which of the desktop wars you followed :) )
Dabbled in many Linux over the years (Puppy was the first one I remember that could be run live off usb media with retention, very clever) but always find I am doing most on Windows simply because of the wealth of freeware and open-source that is available for it in all my hobbies I dont do the windows/linux warring I just use what's natural :D
I was put off Linux when I was contemplating it when I could find no drivers for OKI colour lasers, only a comment that all they were good for was as a paperweight!
Over the years (about 15) I've had 3, the second was an upgrade, the third a few months ago was due to a problem caused by a 3rd party toner. I find now that it's over £100 cheaper to buy a new machine than to buy a set of OKI toner cartridges, a set of clone toner cartridges is about the same or a little cheaper than a new machine, similar state of affairs for other makes.
Quote from: Dorsetmike on February 25, 2018, 03:07:41 PM
I was put off Linux when I was contemplating it when I could find no drivers for OKI colour lasers,
Similar here, I was Linux mainly (DOS and then Windows second strings to my bow) up to 9k6 modems, then the downfall came with an upgrade? to an Aldi/Medion (gasp!) and the dawn of the 56k modems, which in this case was a winmodem that had no Linux driver :( So if I had a Linux problem I had to fire up windows to connect t'internet to find a solution, grrr.
So now, as said, manly windows, with Linux second string sometimes and nostalgia and writing Python (and that wont last much longer cos I now have it on my 'doze as well :D )
Malcolm,
It was definitely a 640/680 Hybrid and the 640 was replaced earlier on with an EAI Pacer that used 5Mb disks. These were solid, magnetic coated, aluminium the size if an LP and in a huge plastic case and the heads had to be realigned once a week. I worked on a PDP/11 a bit later.
I’ll also have to re-visited the latest Linux desktops.
Quote from: Razzmataz on February 25, 2018, 04:01:52 PM
5Mb disks. These were solid, magnetic coated, aluminium the size if an LP
Thanks interesting. There was something like that on the EAI Hybrid I was using, (a clean room because of it). My ref. to 100v on it was good because we needed that for s/n ratio on my radio/telecom simulations.
Please excuse all those questions I asked, for a moment I though we might have a case of Small Worlds colliding. So if I had said Filton it wouldnt have caused surprise then ?!!
Just done a free upgrade to win 10 from win 7 today and it was quite painless and has kept all my files programs and settings unchanged. So far it seems as good as win 7 but I shall see over the next few days. Some bloatware to get rid of though like Skype an spottything some of the other stuff I'll find out what it's for or does before removing it. Btw the free upgrade is still available if anyone wants to know how to do it before Microsoft closes the loophole.
Quote from: Big bad John on February 25, 2018, 04:40:56 PM
Just done a free upgrade to win 10 from win 7 today and it was quite painless and has kept all my files programs and settings unchanged.
Oh ! I thought free had ended, what a surprise.
I dont know if you should tempt me, I was not tempted before now because I am happy with my Win7 active machines, but since I have acquired a couple more that are not doing much and are not essential should I try it I wonder , , , oh the temptation :)
They are not yet connected to t'internet (part of their value!) but I have seen this
"Using the tool to create installation media (USB flash drive, DVD, or ISO file) to install Windows 10 on a different PC (click to show more or less information) "
do you (anyone) know if that 'different' m/c need to eventually connect to complete ?
Ta.
I made an iso and burned a DVD to upgrade. I think it immediately checked for upgrades after finishing, but not during installation.
Quote from: MalcolmAL on February 25, 2018, 04:18:14 PM
Quote from: Razzmataz on February 25, 2018, 04:01:52 PM
5Mb disks. These were solid, magnetic coated, aluminium the size if an LP
So if I had said Filton it wouldnt have caused surprise then ?!!
Does not mean a thing I'm afraid. Mind you, my memory is not what it used to be!
Quote from: Razzmataz on February 25, 2018, 05:10:01 PMDoes not mean a thing I'm afraid. Mind you, my memory is not what it used to be!
Tell me about it, that is why I was having trouble with the numbers :)
Filton = BAe Bristol, which is where this big beast lived (big room, half of one floor) and I had to share 1/2 of its time with Concord peeps designing air intakes on it. Thought for a mo. you might have been there too, not often one meets anyone who has used an EAI Hybrid ! (and who knows like us how to proper speel analogue :) )
Sorry @Dorsetmike (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2855) for all my noise, back to you :)
Babcock & Wilcox, Great Dover Street London. Control & Analysis. Nuclear Energy Dept.
:thumbsup: happy days thanks for triggering nostalgia :)
Quote from: Dorsetmike on February 24, 2018, 04:12:37 PMor 8.1 as optional add ons.
I'm sticking with Win 7 and returning the new machine for a refund.
I tried Win8.1 once, oh dear, wouldnt wish it on anyone !
Like you I am quite happy with Win7 until something better comes along.
There is another way to upgrade to Win10, buy a 'refurbished'-recycled m/c.
If you wait as long to upgrade as we have that way you get a newer m/c, very cheaply, and you can play and get used to it whilst still keeping your comfey slippers and wooly jumper - ahem ! I mean your old familiar Win7 m/c.
My local recycler has cheap Win10 things already
Oh yes, and by now all the hullabloo has died down and by the sound of @Big bad John (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5248) 's good experience all the bugs have been ironed out.
Ferrite core stores now there's a memory, mind you I still worked on equipment using them till 2001, and they went on a few years after that.
How about a drum store?
A 19 inch rack 4 ft high, inside was a spinning drum with fixed heads arranged all the way up the vertical side of the drum. What ever you do don't overfill the oil bearing on top of it spins out and runs down the magnetic surface ruining it. It would then take weeks to reload the system using paper tape after a new drum was fitted.
I don't know if the free upgrade works from a dvd or usb drive now that Microsoft has officially ended the free upgrade. You do need a licenced version of win 7 8 or 8.1 already installed on your pc and it upgrades like for like ie home for home or pro for pro etc. I just downloaded the media creation tool and run it and let it do it's thing verification etc was done automatically as my pc was still connected to the internet. I don't know how you would go about the digital licence without being connected to the web. I suspect this is an oversight by Microsoft and doubt it won't be long before they close this loophole. Then again the more people they can get to upgrade the sooner they can pull the plug on the other op systems. One of the things that swayed me to upgrade is that I read that win 10 will be the last op system and as far as they are concerned they have no intension of bringing out a win 11 just to continually update win 10 so hopefully this will be the last time I need to upgrade.
It seems to be that it was only the GMX GWX path that was ended, the media creation tool is still available, until they close that as well of course !
Yes, all fully licenced, reason they are not connected to the internet is that we dont need them to be, not got a rountuit (need a wire or a wifi dongle) and meanwhile they are behind -what I think these days is called- an airwall :)
Good point about needing a new digital licence via a connection to complete, thanks.
Quote from: Malc on February 25, 2018, 05:04:11 PM
I made an iso and burned a DVD to upgrade. I think it immediately checked for upgrades after finishing, but not during installation.
Now that's a really good idea, I think I will do the same if the upgrade is still available. :thumbsup:
I've corrected my GWX dyslexical earlier !
doing a bit more reading round it seems that DVD and/or USB can be made but need to be 'activated' now to get the digital whatsits, then you can keep it for future re-installs on that one m/c. regardless of the upgrade route being closed off.
I may have to do at least one of my machines just to see what Win10 is like :)
but , but , I can buy a legit desktop with Win10 for only £50, which saves jumping through hoops ;D
Hi there, this pc I am writing on is still on W7 (my railway pc ie a oldish one) I tried the free upgrade while it was still active but the pc kept locking up so I reverted back to W7. My new PC downstairs, well I say new it was when I built it in 2016 I bought a legal copy of W10 and did a clean install and that pc is brilliant, no complaints. I might buy another copy for this pc soon, you can buy a legal digital copy of W10pro for £21 online, I have had a few copies, I have built 3 pc's, for different people and bought the software with no problems.
Quote from: lil chris on February 26, 2018, 09:12:20 PM
you can buy a legal digital copy of W10pro for £21 online, I have had a few copies, I have built 3 pc's, for different people and bought the software with no problems.
Oh! That isnt much, less than some sharewares even.
When did Ms become so reasonable? obviously I've not been paying enough attention, how does that work, any good links ?
Ta.
It's generally people re-selling bulk licences, or reusing keys from decommissioned hardware. They are totally legit, you're not buying 'fake' software, but it's against the licence terms from MS (not your problem). If you literally buy through Microsoft it's far more expensive.
I've bought a couple and never had a problem - paid £5 for a W10 key last month for my Mac Mini on the railway.
Quote from: njee20 on February 26, 2018, 09:42:28 PM
It's generally people re-selling bulk licences,
terms from MS (not your problem).
I've bought a couple and never had a problem - paid £
Curioser and curioser,
where are these peeps generally to be found, ebay ?
and if M$ arn't worried then yes ok not our prob.
If they had treated the unwashed public as their 'bulk' customers and discountable over the years they would not have come in for the stick they did, nor have had to go to the extraordinary antitheiving lengths that makes one feel a criminal for even thinking of changing a HD !
[/rant]
Yep, just search eBay.
From ebay :-
offered at £3.99 !! "If do not have 10 pro on your system, download direct from microsoft using Microsoft Creation Tool"
my green,
so that is why the creation tool is still there ? after GWX was closed. So if the bulk people are still needing it praps that route will remain then.
Not that I am bovvered, still happy with Win7, I'm just curious about it all :)
dog-with-a-bone so to speak ;D !
Looks like MS reserve the right to disable a Win10 key if they see a disproportionate number of users on the same key (the keys not being unique, but grouped in user/install numbers supplied to the dealers)
So might be a good idea to turn off updates and not visit MS sites ?
Not saying they will,
if they did it could be another FTDI serial<>usb PR disaster ie. going after the user not the supplier.
I would never advocate disabling updates, for any reason. I would also say that both those things would be totally fruitless - if they wanted to disable your software they could do so as long as the computer was connected to the internet. I also wouldn't worry about that in the least.
I'd be amazed if 0.1% of Microsoft's sales are to individuals - the OEM market is going to be overwhelmingly larger.
Quote from: njee20 on February 27, 2018, 07:04:41 AM
I would never advocate disabling updates, for any reason.
the OEM market is going to be overwhelmingly larger.
That is a whole other debate lurking :) which I will decline for now :D
and yes.
and I was not advocating anybody do anything they didnt consent to, it was a suggestion as a 'reductio ad absurdum' on the proposition of MS reserving the right to do these things regardless of whether ior not they would !
tongues in cheeks dont come over well in texts
As for the debate - laters - but for now = I have been on the internet since before there was a web, I have never caught a virus off it. I practice safe hex and have been able to advise others (by their emailings, regardless if they actually contained a live virus or not)
and do not put ALL my trust in anti-virus software.
but all that, and a debate, I would suggest would be better elsewhere than in Mike's very interesting topic ??
Think I've finally cracked it, new PC, transferred the SSD with Win 7 Pro 64 from other machine, had to run Win 7 install disc selected repair and it now works Fingers etc tightly crossed!