I'm trying to build a [sorry for foul language] 1/72 scale diorama of Hunter FGA.9s being refuelled / serviced / re-armed.
the sort of thing I'd have seen at Muharraq with 8 and 208 sdns, if I'd worked days and not evenings /nights with the fur box :)
so, my questions are, if a Hunter was going to have the outboard wing tanks replaced with SNEB pods ..
1. would the SNEBs be delivered on a bomb trolley ?
2. would the rockets have been in them, or were they loaded after the pod was on the pylon ?
IIRC the sdns used to go down to Sharjah for live firing practice, but it was 49/50 years ago, and I might be wrong.
any info will be much appreciated.
regards
alan
Bit before my time I'm afraid Alan but, in my experience, plumbers always towed there wares to a jet on a bomb trolley, usually behind a wendy. As for payload, thinking back to the BOZ pod for example, it came out pre loaded and it was incumbent on the see off crew to remove the safety pin, with the exception of 'instant sunshine' that was generally the rule for munitions.
many thanks Lawrence, I'll look at that for now,
but you have a fur box mechanic baffled ....
'a wendy' :confused2:
Your confused!?!
"Fur Box Mechanic" ???
???
RAFP QPD ...
RAF Police Dog Handler...
part of a two part team
'fur box mechanic' ie the handler, there to hold the lead, use the radio, feed and groom etc the other part of the team
and
'brain on a chain' ie the important part, usually, at least in my day, a German Shepherd, that did the real work :)
Ah!
Thanks for the info.
My father did his National Service in the RAF, up at Finningley in the Vulcan days (he saw the Vulcan, with the test pilot at the stick, loop the loop!)
He told me a great tale about the dog handlers and the base commander, but I don't want to hijack the thread.
:wave:
didn't involve QRA Vulcans did it ?
Well, seeing as it's your thread, here goes.
My father was put on guard duty from time to time, and as he and his peers were National Service bods they were sent out on patrol with pick axe handles only. Before being sent out for their duty they were given some instructions. One of which was regarding the RAF police dog patrols. They were told that there would be dog patrols operating within the camp, and that if they were challenged to stop they were to stand perfectly still, not speak, turn round, or make any kind of movement until they were allowed to by the dog handler.
Off they went on patrol.
On the same evening, the base commander had gone off base for the evening and came back quite late. As he was walking across some part of the base he was challenged by a dog patrol to "Halt and stand still". Apparently he wasn't best pleased at being spoken to like that, turned around to give the handler a mouthful, at which point the dog had him!
My father and his compatriots were told to hop it back to barracks sharpish and keep mum.
My father was doing NS just as the Vulcans were appearing, so I think it was a little before the QRA time. He was a wireless technician and he did spend a bit of time in Malaysia with the Vulcans when they took them over there to show them off. He seemed to spend a lot of time with the other blokes cleaning and polishing the wings!
In many ways I think he enjoyed his time doing NS. He had some interesting experiences, getting bought a three course meal on a train back by a complete stranger just because he was doing NS, railway staff helping him get home on parcel trains and being picked up by car drivers to give him a lift.
A 'wendy' was the colloquial term for a W (weapons) loader...an improperly balanced low version of a fork lift which offered bombs up to the wing for the Armourer to attach. Complete pain to drive and load with.
Later,
Stu from EGDL.
hi Stu,
many thanks for the explanation, so this
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/82/311-191019103825.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=82953)
is what I'm looking for ?
there is a similar item in the hasegawa ground equipment set.
again many thanks
alan
Hi Alan,
That's the baby....
Regards,
Stu from EGDL.
hi emjaybee,
very interesting memories :smiley-laughing:
when I was in NI I had a sort of similar incident, but not with such an exalted being, just with a lowly pilot officer.
I'd been carrying out training in our compound with my dog, and we'd ended up with an attack under gunfire with a bite at the end.
my dog was well excited after all this, and to get back to the section you had to cross the officers mess carpark.
there I passed said P/O with a couple of young ladies heading towards the mess, so holding the lead very firmly I gave him an eyes right as we passed...
"Cpl, do you not salute officers ?" obviously trying to impress said ladies.
I about turned, halted and my dog sat. I then explained that it was not normal to salute when we had a dog with us, for obvious reasons, but he wouldn't let it go.
"Cpl, unless you can quote me the section and paragraph in QRs that says that, then you will salute me."
so, as I couldn't, I transferred the lead to my left hand, and peeled him off a smart salute....
which after a pause he returned.....
which little doggie took as a threat to his feeder / groomer / walker ......
ouch :smiley-laughing:
slightly less :) when I had to explain to my provost officer later :-[
Quote from: StufromEGDL on October 19, 2019, 10:46:10 AM
Hi Alan,
That's the baby....
Regards,
Stu from EGDL.
so would one of these be acceptable ?
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/82/311-191019105807.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=82954)
Quote from: class37025 on October 19, 2019, 10:58:17 AM
Quote from: StufromEGDL on October 19, 2019, 10:46:10 AM
Hi Alan,
That’s the baby....
Regards,
Stu from EGDL.
so would one of these be acceptable ?
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/82/311-191019105807.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=82954)
If you think it looks right, then go for it.
Stu
Bizarrely, there was one of those for sale on EBay the other week.
Working order, £1500!
probably the wrong scale for what I want :smiley-laughing:
It may be a little large, but if you put it right at the back it'll look small, y'know, like the Father Ted sketch...
..."right Dougal, one more time, ... ....small... ...far away."
but then I'd need to get a bomb trolly to the same scale ....... :'(
I just don't get it, you try to help some people...
;D
:smiley-laughing: :-[
Quote from: emjaybee on October 19, 2019, 01:12:06 PM
It may be a little large, but if you put it right at the back it'll look small, y'know, like the Father Ted sketch...
..."right Dougal, one more time, ... ....small... ...far away."
or put the layout on top of it then you can adjust the height easily :)
would make wiring easy wouldn't it :hmmm:
Quote from: zwilnik on October 19, 2019, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: emjaybee on October 19, 2019, 01:12:06 PM
It may be a little large, but if you put it right at the back it'll look small, y'know, like the Father Ted sketch...
..."right Dougal, one more time, ... ....small... ...far away."
or put the layout on top of it then you can adjust the height easily :)
You can't beat a bit of lateral thinking!
Quote from: emjaybee on October 19, 2019, 03:17:24 PM
Quote from: zwilnik on October 19, 2019, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: emjaybee on October 19, 2019, 01:12:06 PM
It may be a little large, but if you put it right at the back it'll look small, y'know, like the Father Ted sketch...
..."right Dougal, one more time, ... ....small... ...far away."
or put the layout on top of it then you can adjust the height easily :)
You can't beat a bit of lateral thinking!
Vertical Thinking surely??
yes, if it was lateral it would unbalance, and fall off.
mind you not as much of a disaster as if that fell off....
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/82/311-191019172920.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=82961)
Quote from: StufromEGDL on October 19, 2019, 07:33:43 AM
A 'wendy' was the colloquial term for a W (weapons) loader...an improperly balanced low version of a fork lift which offered bombs up to the wing for the Armourer to attach. Complete pain to drive and load with.
Later,
Stu from EGDL.
Only a complete pain to drive after they fitted them all with engine restrictors, as I recall a couple of plumbers (armourers) were racing them (pre restricted) and one of the ended up badly hurt, don't recall if it was a fatality or not. There was also a few stories about jets getting damaged because the plumber forgot how bad the brakes were on the wendy, not good form to have your munitions rolling across the pan ::) ;D
what steps do you take when a bomb falls off a wendy ?
B****Y big ones :smiley-laughing:
Quote from: class37025 on October 19, 2019, 05:29:29 PM
yes, if it was lateral it would unbalance, and fall off.
mind you not as much of a disaster as if that fell off....
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/82/311-191019172920.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=82961)
Nah, you'll be alright. Blue munitions are inert/drill rounds. :sweat:
that's good to know,
so I'd only need to worry about these falling off?
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/82/311-191019200413.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=82969)
amazing what results you get when you search for 'raf weapons loader photos', best off topic I found was this
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/82/311-191019200644.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=82970)
I'm guessing someone had a rather uncomfortable interview with his sdn commander :-[
I remember the VC10 incident. Was a defuel but there was unknown fuel in the fin but a broken fuel gauge. The aircraft tipped gracefully when the Cpl tech doing the defuel stepped off the flight deck on to the front stairs.
Later,
Stu from EGDL.
Quote from: class37025 on October 19, 2019, 08:08:30 PM
..
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/82/311-191019200644.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=82970)
...
To quote an infamous* Flight Safety poster "Not me Chief, I'm Airframes!". :D
* The poster "Not me Chief, I'm Airframes!" was supposed to convey the message that there were no demarcation lines with Flight Safety, it was everyone's responsibility. But it was soon withdrawn when we Riggers** started widely quoting it as a get out.
** Riggers = Airframe Mech/Tech. From the early days of rigging airplane wings by tensioning bracing wires.
Quote from: RailGooner on October 19, 2019, 09:12:15 PM
To quote an infamous* Flight Safety poster "Not me Chief, I'm Airframes!". :D
* The poster "Not me Chief, I'm Airframes!" was supposed to convey the message that there were no demarcation lines with Flight Safety, it was everyone's responsibility. But it was soon withdrawn when we Riggers** started widely quoting it as a get out.
** Riggers = Airframe Mech/Tech. From the early days of rigging airplane wings by tensioning bracing wires.
:laughabovepost: :laughabovepost:
Another rigger here, been there, done that (not quite that) said that. :claphappy:
it looks as though I have three types of bomb trailers available to me ...
1. the UPKEEP bomb trailer from the Airfix Dam Busters Lancaster kit
2. type C trailer from the Airfix RAF WWII Bomber command resupply set
3. type F trailer from the Airfix RAF WWII Bomber command resupply set
the type C can be built to carry either two / three or four bombs, 500lb or 1000lb, in a mix
the type F can carry 4000 lbs or 8000 lbs bombs,
and the UPKEEP can carry either the dam bomb, or I have rotated the carrier to hold a C-130 under wing fuel tank/ drop tank.
any comments / suggestions for 1970s / 1980s loads ?
Munitions I know Hunters carried: 60lb HE rockets, SNEB rocket pods, Sidewinder missiles.
:beers:
Quote from: RailGooner on October 21, 2019, 06:49:18 PM
Munitions I know Hunters carried: 60lb HE rockets, SNEB rocket pods, Sidewinder missiles.
:beers:
so the 60lb is the one depicted in the early F6 kit by airfix, SNEB 155 in the later FGA.9 kit, but I thought the Sidewinder was only Swiss, or Singapore Air Force a/c, must admit I didn't know RAF ones could use them.
I assume, Hunters could carry 500 and 1000 lbs bombs, but not on multiple carriers, only one per pylon ?
Yes I think one bomb per pylon - all I've ever seen, though I can't claim to have seen everything(!) - on the inboard wing hardpoint.
Couple of nice photos here (https://falkeeinsgreatplanes.blogspot.com/2017/07/hawker-hunter-fga9-aircraft-of-20.html) of the belly Gun Pack being fitted/removed.
many thanks for that.
so bomb on inboard pylon, SNEB or small drop tank on outboard.
IIRC the original airfix f6 hunter had the gun pack and cradle as part of the kit, so could be modelled as being unloaded.
might see if I can get hold of a couple, could use the gunpacks 'on the pan', possibly airframes either elsewhere, or alongside the pack.
not sure when the 60 lb rockets went out of service, presume when the SNEBs came in.
I'm wondering if my sighting of Sidewinders on Hunters was in Chile(?)! :uneasy:
Hunter FGA.71s
another question for ex-RAF plumbers :)
bidding on an Airfix 1:72 Valiant bomber kit, checked the instructions on line, and it can either have a Blue Danube bomb, or three bomb racks, each with five bombs on it [3 + 2]
so the question, cause I cannot remember, would the racks be loaded, then winched up into the aircraft, or were the racks fitted first, then the bombs loaded ?
thinking of a dispersal base, with bomb load being loaded, so what would be on the bomb trolleys ?
any info appreciated.
didn't get any responses, but have found a photo of 1,000 lb bombs on a bomb trolley already on a bomb carrier, so that would appear to answer my question.
looks like 2 x 5 bomb carriers, ie 3 +2, as per the Valiant model instructions, on one trolley