Thanks for the quote from Ossie Nock's book 'LNER steam', John.

This was one of the first railway books which I bought, and I may even still have it-somewhere!

Martyn

Welcome back to the NGF and your wonderful mini-series, although now it really is not a 'mini' series; worthy of a proper book I reckon. As to your question regarding the Peco/Rivarossi 5XP, then the only one I would propose is a Castle class. I have the Peco 5XP with a coreless and DCC conversion of my own design, it runs very well and does not look at all out of place with the modern locos on the club layout at exhibitions.
Looking forward to the next instalment!
Cheers!

Quote from: Newportnobby on Today at 01:23:17 PMSorted.
Release static build up. More powerful charger. Laptop fully charged in a couple of hours now
No charge

So......is it charging or is it No Charge?   

Again, thanks John, and welcome back.

Just a short piece about the NER T3/LNER Q7 from the RCTS book.

Basically, it questions why the T3s were actually built! The T2/Q6 were more than powerful enough for the traffic handled, and the book conjects that it was an exercise by the Drawing Office/Locomotive Superintendent to see just what power could be easily obtained by three cylinder superheated goods locos.

In trials on Glenfarg bank, (in Scotland, for the benefit of the NBR), the T3 took 755 tons up the bank; the GWR 28xx 2804 could only mange 591 tons, having not been able to take 683 tons(in poor weather).

Looking forward once again to the next parts.

Martyn

I have some good news. I finally got a response from Peco and they have sent me some new wheels.

Looks like my first email went through just fine and it took them about a week to get to it, so all that was needed was a little patience.

They haven't mentioned if they were aware of this issue already but hopefully if anyone else encounters it then will be able to get replacements too.

Excellent, John.

And to answer your question about the Peco locomotive, no.

Sorted.
Release static build up. More powerful charger. Laptop fully charged in a couple of hours now
No charge

A Coarse Guide to the Steam Locomotive for 'N' Gauge Modellers - Part 74


Hello Chums

More Than Two Cylinders - 2

We ended the previous part with a question:- 'In the next part we'll discuss the re-emergence of three-cylinder tender locomotives. Any ideas what was next after the Blyth & Tyne 0-6-0?'

There were two one-off three-cylinder tender engines. Both were conversions.

In 1889, a Webb compound locomotive on the LNWR was briefly tried with the low-pressure inside cylinder reduced from 30 inch diameter to 20 inch and with high-pressure steam admitted to all three cylinders. I've not been able to find out much about this experiment. Please feel free to add more details in the discussion.

Twenty years later, Mr Robinson converted one of the Great Central's two-cylinder 'Atlantic' locomotives to three cylinders. In 1922 the locomotive reverted to the standard two-cylinder arrangement.

Having had considerable success with three-cylinder tank locomotives on the North Eastern Railway, Mr (later, Sir Vincent) Raven¹ designed, in 1911, a three-cylinder development of Mr Worsdell's successful 'V' class 'Atlantic. Darlington Works was fully committed to a building programme so, for the first time in many years, the NER placed an order with an outside builder, in this case the North British Locomotive Company in Glasgow.

But not for a single prototype - for twenty engines. Ten were saturated and 10 superheated. Unsurprisingly, the superheated ones were superior and a further 30 were built up until 1920. And what engines they were - fast, reliable and, with a reduced 'hammer blow', easier on the track and structures.




[A NER 'Z' three-cylinder 'Atlantic'. These were magnificent locomotives. Convincing proof of the value of three cylinders.]


In 1920/21, Sir Vincent arranged detailed comparative tests between the three-cylinder 'Z' class and Mr Worsdell's two-cylinder 'V' class. By then, all NER 'Atlantics' had been fitted with superheaters. Unlike some specially-arranged trials, the test results were based on the locomotives' performance in day-to-day service.

The results are interesting for those of us who are fascinated by steam locomotives as they are the best comparison between two and three-cylinder locomotives of a similar basic design.

Here's the main findings:

The 'Z' class showed a 23% reduction in coal consumption over the two-cylinder 'V' class;

Average annual mileage for the 'Z' class was 34,392 compared with 26,579 for the 'V'.

Slightly later figures, from 1924, show heavy repair intervals for the 'Z' class averaged 73,000 miles. For the 'V' class it was 58,000 miles.

Please don't think the 'Z' 'Atlantics' had an easy life - they were the front line motive power for the York-Newcastle-Edinburgh line until the Gresley 'Pacifics' took over many duties in LNER days. Even then, the 'Atlantics' continued to be used on lighter trains, such as Pullman workings.

Sir Vincent deserves recognition as the locomotive engineer who understood thoroughly the benefits of a three-cylinder engine. The most spectacular rewards for this would come after the Grouping. Meanwhile, he had turned his attention to the heavy mineral traffic. In 1913, the NER's annual mineral traffic was 59.7 million tons, the highest in the country. Next was the GWR with 47.6 million tons.

The NER eventually had 120 of the superheated 'T2' class two-cylinder 0-8-0 locomotives. Introduced in 1912, to Mr Raven's design, these were excellent engines. Sir Vincent took the design a stage further in 1919 with his 'T3' three-cylinder version. Fifteen were built and worked many of the heaviest mineral trains such as the Tyne Dock - Consett iron ore workings.

The late OS Nock wrote memorably of one of the class on one of these trains. She worked for 35 minutes on full regulator with the reverser one notch from full gear. A full glass of water was maintained (although the steep gradient would have made the water level read high) and the engine blew off just beyond Beamish. Mr Nock wrote,

'[...] it seemed as though this amazing engine could have sustained this effort indefinitely.'²

*

Time, now, to, reluctantly, drag ourselves away from the doings of the NER and see what other locomotive engineers thought of three-cylinder locomotives.

Mr Churchward had considered three-cylinder locomotives for the Great Western but did not proceed to build any. However, one of his young engineers, Harold Holcroft, took a particular interest in these. We'll hear more later about Mr Holcroft and his important contribution to three-cylinder locomotives.

Mr (later, Sir Nigel) Gresley, Chief Mechanical Engineer of the Great Northern, became absolutely convinced of the value of three-cylinder locomotives and built some for the Great Northern and many, many more for the LNER. His Great Northern designs comprised 2-6-0, 2-8-0 and 4-6-2 wheel arrangements. Like Sir Vincent Raven earlier, Mr Gresley was a total convert to three-cylinders for medium-sized and large locomotives. We'll discuss the Gresley locomotives in some more detail later.

In the south, Mr Maunsell had three-cylinder versions of his 'N' and 'U' 2-6-0s for the SECR and the the Southern. One of his ill-fated 'River' class 2-6-4T locomotives, No. A890 River Frome was built with three cylinders. The eight 0-8-0T shunting engines of class 'Z' also had three cylinders, as did the 'W' class 2-6-4T goods tank engines.

Mr Maunsell's most successful three-cylinder design and, arguably, his most successful locomotive class, was the 'Schools' 4-4-0 of 1930. We'll probably discuss this class in more detail later.

Once OVS Bulleid was appointed as Mr Maunsell's successor, the Southern embarked upon an enormous building programme of his innovative three-cylinder 'Merchant Navy', 'West Country' and 'Battle of Britain' 4-6-2 locomotives.

Lastly, to the LMS.

I think the only three-cylinder simple expansion locomotives the LMS inherited from its constituent companies were the four members of the Caledonian Railway's '956' Class, designed by William Pickersgill and introduced in 1921. This was a design of legendary incompetence and it's difficult to think of a worse locomotive. Mercifully, no more were built and they didn't influence the design of any other classes. The LMS scrapped all four as soon as it decently could.




[Massive and useless. A Caledonian '956' three-cylinder 4-6-0, seen here at Perth. The largest locomotives built for a Scottish railway. Probably the worst as well.]


It's fair to say that the locomotive affairs of the LMS were not altogether satisfactory from the time of Mr Hughes' retirement as Chief Mechanical Engineer in 1925 until the appointment of Mr (later, Sir William) Stanier in 1932. The goings-on during that period would make a mini-series in their own right. However, the successful three-cylinder 4-6-0 'Royal Scot' class appeared in 1927, followed by the nominal rebuilding of two ex-LNWR four-cylinder 'Claughton' 4-6-0s as the first of the three-cylinder 'Patriot' class. Subsequent members of the class were new engines.

Mr Stanier carried on construction of three-cylinder locomotives with his '5XP' or 'Jubilee' class of 1934. These were, effectively, taper boiler versions of the 'Patriots'. This was the most numerous class of three-cylinder locomotive in Great Britain but their introduction was marred with several problems, one of which was due to Mr Stanier's unfamiliarity with three-cylinder locomotives.




[A Stanier '5X' or 'Jubilee' three-cylinder 4-6-0. Britain's most numerous class of three-cylinder locomotives. Many early teething troubles which were eventually, more-or-less, overcome. The model is by Rivarossi for Peco. Has there ever been a better British-outline locomotive in 'N' gauge?]


Mr Stanier designed one other class of three-cylinder locomotive for the LMS, the '2500' class of 2-6-4T for former London Tilbury & Southend Railway's lines. A total of 37 were built, entering service in 1934. Fortunately, one has been preserved and is in the National Collection.

I think that concludes our introduction to three-cylinder locomotives. The next part will provide an overview of four-cylinder types, then we'll discuss some of the technical matters regarding locomotives with more than two cylinders. The most important of which is, 'why bother?'


¹ Knighted in 1917. The then Mr Raven had been seconded to war work for HM Government in 1915, rising to Controller of Armament Production for the Admiralty.

² OS Nock, LNER Steam, David & Charles, Newton Abbot, 1969, page 214.


'N' Gauge is Such Fun!

Many thanks for looking and all best wishes.

Toodle-oo

John

Quote from: Newportnobby on Yesterday at 10:33:09 PMThe Prodigy - but a bit different. This track '3 Kilos' is off a Chilled Ibiza compilation and I like it a lot

That's not bad but for me it goes on a bit.

Maybe a bit Jethro Tull like. Did they draft Ian Anderson in to help?

Quote from: Moonglum on March 18, 2025, 09:14:52 PMMartin @port perran , here is a reminder of what Steven Wilson is capable of, from his album "The Raven That Refused to Sing" the epic "Luminol", with Nick Beggs on bass (ex Kajagoogoo!)...

The band is on fire...

Cheers,

Tim

A think that's a pretty good album to be fair.