As a matter of interest I often wonder what Win 10 has that other versions do not, apart from massive updates many of which seem to cause problems.
I run Firefox as my browser and Thunder bird for email on Win 7, what - if anything - does win 10 offer that is significantly better for internet browsing and email.
I've used AVG free and Ad block for over 15 years with no problems, does Win 10 offer anything better?
I don't have, nor do I want, a touch screen
Personally, I prefer Windows 10 to Windows 7
However, upgrading from Windows 7 to Windows 10 is hit or miss in reliability
The upgrade itself can take several hours
Equally, perform a backup of all essential files to an external drive, just in case
It can then take some time to customise Windows 10, as some features are just daft
Finally, support for Windows 7 ended in 2015
As a result it is easily compromised
For a new installation, Windows 10 is more parallel to iOS now, which synchronises to multiple devices easier (but I have it disabled), tablet feedback (pointless on a desktop or laptop), and integrated Apps
My main issue is the use of Edge, but again this can be disabled
I am running w7 on this computer and the other day I got a message saying support for w7 is ending in June this year. I have another computer downstairs which has w10 which is ok, I did do a upgrade to w10 on this computer but it was awful and the computer had slowed down so much it was unusable so I re-instated w7. Having learnt from that I did a clean install of w10 on the computer downstairs, and like I said it runs good. So I might end up buying a cheap copy of w10 and doing a clean install on this computer, it has two drives so I can copy any data over. By the way do not pay the full price for w10, there are cheap copies available that are fully legal. You can install it from a usb stick and it is very quick to install too.
No USB stick needed, just buy a licence key on eBay. You can kid yourself that it's fully legal all you want.
W10 here on all machines. Don't get why anyone would still use 7, even less so 8.
@njee20 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1147) Hi there , yes I know you can install without usb. I have some programs that simply will not work on w10, to be honest some do not work that good on w7 anyway so maybe its time to give up on them.I agree about w8 what a washout that was, w7 has been good for me but time to give up now I think its just having to re install all the programs if I do a clean install. I did accept the free offer of a upgrade but it was disastrous the computer would not run. Its not that old, ssd drive etc, its a Sandybridge I5 2500k, but in computer terms it's ancient, things move on so fast.
Gawd! I've been using Vista for 11 years! No wonder I haven't got DCC yet! :worried:
Seems to me nobody's answered Dorsetmike's original question yet, though..... what's 10 got that 7 hasn't?
I'm hardly the one to answer!
Quote from: Bealman on April 21, 2019, 12:01:27 AM
Gawd! I've been using Vista for 11 years! No wonder I haven't got DCC yet! :worried:
:laughabovepost:
Have you tried DOS yet? Delete C:\*.* was always a good one to try?
Bob
I used to like the Commodore Vic-20 and 64. You'd switch it on and it would come up with
Ready.
My Windows is do old it's leaded ;)
Been a Windows user since it's early days, that was something like v1.4 in the mid 80's and tried just about every version since then and 10 is probably one of the better vesion now.
Paul
Quote from: Bob G on April 21, 2019, 03:36:44 AM
Quote from: Bealman on April 21, 2019, 12:01:27 AM
Gawd! I've been using Vista for 11 years! No wonder I haven't got DCC yet! :worried:
:laughabovepost:
Have you tried DOS yet? Delete C:\*.* was always a good one to try?
Bob
DEBUG g=c800:5
was better still - low level format of the hard-disk.
Quote from: lil chris on April 20, 2019, 09:55:52 PM
I am running w7 on this computer and the other day I got a message saying support for w7 is ending in June this year. I have another computer downstairs which has w10 which is ok, I did do a upgrade to w10 on this computer but it was awful and the computer had slowed down so much it was unusable so I re-instated w7. Having learnt from that I did a clean install of w10 on the computer downstairs, and like I said it runs good. So I might end up buying a cheap copy of w10 and doing a clean install on this computer, it has two drives so I can copy any data over. By the way do not pay the full price for w10, there are cheap copies available that are fully legal. You can install it from a usb stick and it is very quick to install too.
Assuming that you previously did the upgrade from Win 7 to 10 under the free upgrade scheme and the system activated Win 10, the hardware of the PC should have been recorded on Microsoft's servers and simply downloading Win 10 for free from Microsoft and clean installing it, should prompt it to go online and re-activate automatically. Just install skipping the licence key bit and it will talk to the Microsoft activation servers later.
Thanks for that @stevewalker (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5329) I was wondering if that might work, worth a try anyways.
If you want to try windoze 10 on 7 download a demo version of 10 and run it on a virtual box
I'm quite happy with 7, it does all I need, I was only wondering what - if any - advantages 10 has over 7, I'm not interested in touch screens or the cloud, nor Windoze mail.
First of all: W10 is supported so you get your security updates. W7 doesn't in a few months time.
And it has Windows defender anti virus built in so no need to add a virus scanner.
It's perhaps not the safest but for normal browsing and email it works fine and doesn't slow down the computer. Use it since the introduction of W10 (I upgraded as soon as it was available) and never had a problem. But who knows, maybe some hacker is now browsing my railway photos :confused1:
And my experience with several older computers is that W10 runs (slightly) better than W7. Maybe people with slow W10 upgrades should check their disk space because the old install is still on the disk after the upgrade.
Oh, and I like the built in mail program. Very simple but it's all I need.
Edit: just re-read your last message and it seems you're not interested in the mail program.
W10 is faster, safer and has more native apps.
If you're not bothered by these things then carry on using W7, but be aware it'll become increasingly compromised from a security perspective, and if you're doing anything involving online banking or payments that should probably concern you.
Unless you have some crucial program that you know won't work on W10 I still don't understand why people wouldn't upgrade.
Quote from: njee20 on April 23, 2019, 11:11:10 AM
but be aware it'll become increasingly compromised from a security perspective
I disagree. Microsoft have fixed the majority of the security issues with Win7 and as less people use an operating system they become less of a target for hackers. Microsoft will still be providing it's main anti virus/security package for Win7.
As windows 10 is a continuous development, then Microsoft will still be introducing (yet to be found) security issues.
W7 will not receive new security definitions from January 14th 2020.
Hackers will continue to target it because huge numbers of enterprise customers still use it, and people will be complacent. You're rather missing the point though, unless you have no reason to upgrade why wouldn't you want a faster and more secure OS? Not wanting to use the native mail app is a very odd one.
Win 10 is not more secure. MS are still introducing security vulnerabilities
It's only the core code of Windows 7 that is no longer being supported for home users. The Microsoft security suite will still be updated (it wasn't part of the original Win7 release). For Windows 7 Professional and Windows 7 Enterprise customers in Volume Licensing deals then they have the option of paying for Extended Security updates until January 2023.
Yes, and many won't, they'll take the risk, which makes it ripe for people to try and exploit vulnerabilities...
Edit: first article on a Google list: Windows 10 is twice as secure as Windows 7 (https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-vs-windows-7-microsofts-newer-os-is-almost-twice-as-secure/). Please don't think that because MSE is shared between OSs and is still being updated that means it will continue to include fixes for W7 specific vulnerabilities, that's the point, it won't.
I've had all updates off for over a year now, MS stopping things in Jan 2020 won't be noticed. I've used Thunderbird and Firefox for years, I know what I'm doing with them, changing would involve moving all my contacts etc plus possibly climbing a new learning curve, which at 85 I can do without.
I have SSDs in both PCs and a laptop so speed is adequate for my uses.
Quote from: njee20 on April 23, 2019, 11:11:10 AM
and if you're doing anything involving online banking or payments that should probably concern you
Why? You are not liable unless the bank can prove you have been negligent in giving out your bank details.
Quote from: Dorsetmike on April 23, 2019, 12:35:46 PM
I've used Thunderbird and Firefox for years, I know what I'm doing with them, changing would involve moving all my contacts etc plus possibly climbing a new learning curve, which at 85 I can do without.
I converted my w7 to w10 purely for the future proofing my operating system, I also have used firefox and thunderbird and still do. I do not like w10, it is not faster than w7 only appears to be due to the order that it loads things, but it still takes bloody ages from switching on to fully ready for use. I had to disable many things not needed on w10 and installed a program that makes it look more like w7. In earlier versions of windows we had program files, w10 changed them to apps, apps used to be lite versions of programs designed for phones, I could go on for ages about all the bad bits of w10 but that is just me wanting to stay in the dark ages of w7, I think the main points are upgrading to w10 means you do not need to get a new computer and you can still use the majority of your old software on w10
Quote from: nookfield on April 23, 2019, 01:02:47 PM
Quote from: njee20 on April 23, 2019, 11:11:10 AM
and if you're doing anything involving online banking or payments that should probably concern you
Why? You are not liable unless the bank can prove you have been negligent in giving out your bank details.
Because it's not just about the pure financial side of things. It's a pain if you need to get new card details, and have all your accounts emptied because someone's set up an account in your name using some handy key logging software.
Obviously there's every chance that absolutely nothing bad will ever happen, perhaps aside from some slowing down of your computer as it's clogged with malware crap, but don't be so naive as to assume that you're somehow invincible.
By extension of your logic why use anti virus software at all?
Quote from: Dorsetmike on April 23, 2019, 12:35:46 PM
I've had all updates off for over a year now, MS stopping things in Jan 2020 won't be noticed. I've used Thunderbird and Firefox for years, I know what I'm doing with them, changing would involve moving all my contacts etc plus possibly climbing a new learning curve, which at 85 I can do without.
I have SSDs in both PCs and a laptop so speed is adequate for my uses.
Right, and Thunderbird and Firefox work perfectly with W10. I don't use the native mail app, as said you don't have to. No reason to change contacts or anything like that.
It isn't just the potential inconvenience to you either, it is that an infected, unprotected computer is likely to be used to help spread nasties to other people as well.
Like Nick I can't really understand why someone given the (free) choice wouldn't have updated from W7 to W10. I know it is different in certain ways but it works well and is quick.
We worked hard to disable windows 10 updates and to get rid of most of the rubbish that Microsoft wants us to keep and ended up with a predictable system. But the often used rational for the updates is to correct security issues. It follows that if there are no updates, the security issues remain.
We have moved over to the apple brand and software. Initial impressions are that the file handling is not as good but that most everything else is better. The big downside is initial cost but this may be offset by the software being maintainable. There's a suggestion that the hardware lasts longer but it'll take some years before I'm convinced of that. The excel spreadsheet gave Apple the cost advantage over a 5 year period (!)
Genuinely intrigued by what you mean about the software being maintainable, and how that equates to a significant cost saving?
I'm a big Apple fan; I had a first generation iPod and I'm on my 6th iPhone, but I could never get to grips with MacOS, I bought a Mac Mini to try, and just never found it as intuitive as Windows/PC.
A lot of the comments about speed/performance are because people compare a £1500 Macbook Pro to their £300 laptop, which always feels grossly unfair!
Quote from: njee20 on April 23, 2019, 02:10:50 PM
and have all your accounts emptied because someone's set up an account in your name using some handy key logging software.
Actually they wont be able to get on as the Bank I use will only allow recognised devices to log in. If I use a different device then I get a phone call with a security code to enter.
Quote from: njee20 on April 23, 2019, 02:10:50 PM
but don't be so naive as to assume that you're somehow invincible.
I'm not, but there is more chance that my bank details will be hacked from a retailer/business that have you details stored, which has happened in the past to me (Lakeland in 2013).
Quote from: red_death on April 23, 2019, 02:22:15 PM
It isn't just the potential inconvenience to you either, it is that an infected, unprotected computer is likely to be used to help spread nasties to other people as well.
But they will all be using Win10 which is so secure and has never had any security issues :hmmm:
Stop being childish, no one's said W10 doesn't have vulnerabilities, but it is undeniable (by everyone except you) that W10 is more secure than W7. If people want to take that risk that's of course their prerogative, but don't make out that there's no difference.
The fact you comment that MSE will keep receiving updates and therefore there's no difference makes me think you don't actually know anything about this anyway, which makes your comments more dangerous.
I agree you're more likely to have card details stolen from a retailer, but that's like saying I'm more likely to die whilst riding a motorbike so I'm no longer wearing my seatbelt in the car.
Quote from: njee20 on April 23, 2019, 04:11:12 PM
makes me think you don't actually know anything about this anyway, which makes your comments more dangerous.
Actually I do know what I'm talking about as I spent my working career it the computing industry (including security for a major organisation 25K+ PC's when I retired) and I would have started before you was even a twinkle in your parents eye.
The article you referenced in your earlier post is flawed. The only way to produce accurate results would be to start with clean builds of both operating systems and then visit the same websites and then check to see what malware/viruses were present on the PC's. As they seem to be basing there conclusion on the average amount of instances of malware on a machine then the Win 7 machines would have a higher occurrence as they have been around a lot longer and had more time to be infected.
I did say it was the first link from Google - but there's plenty of reputable sources out there saying the same. W10 has been around for nearly 5 years now, and is (just) more widely used than W7, there's definitely some merit in what's being said. To be clear are you saying that they're wrong, and that W7 is identical to W10 in security?
I say that's a bold claim.
For a pretty new member how would you know how old I am, have you been here before perhaps...?
Quote from: njee20 on April 23, 2019, 04:36:52 PM
I did say it was the first link from Google - but there's plenty of reputable sources out there saying the same. W10 has been around for nearly 5 years now, and is (just) more widely used than W7, there's definitely some merit in what's being said.
Win10 may have been around for 5 years but it gets reinstalled every 6 months (assuming MS don't mess it up as they did last time).
Quote from: njee20 on April 23, 2019, 04:36:52 PM
To be clear are you saying that they're wrong, and that W7 is identical to W10 in security?
That's not what I am saying. All known vulnerabilities in Win7 have already been fixed. In Win10 Microsoft are still introducing them.
Quote from: njee20 on April 23, 2019, 04:36:52 PM
For a pretty new member how would you know how old I am, have you been here before perhaps...?
No I haven't been here before, but you are just as augmentative on the Facebook group where I have come across your postings. Nick something but I can't remember your surname.
QuoteThere's a suggestion that the hardware lasts longer but it'll take some years before I'm convinced of that. The excel spreadsheet gave Apple the cost advantage over a 5 year period (
But unlike a pc,when your internal graphics card is no longer supported by the latest os you cant just buy an off the shelf upgraded card.
Why do people still pay out £100 for an operating system when all they do is surf the net, send and receive emails and scribble the odd spreadsheet? All can be done just as easy for £100 cheaper and require much less in machine specifications.
I've always used versions of Windows since the inception of the internet and they all work fine for your average user.
OK - ME and Vista and Win 8 weren't the best of the bunch but they all worked satisfactorily with a bit of tuning.
Win 7 & 10 both seem pretty good to me for what I use my PC for. Yes they are slightly different but that's life. Everything changes all the time.
I've only ever had one virus detected on any of my computers over the years which was successfully binned by whatever virus app I was running at the time. Currently I run Win 10 on a somewhat long in the tooth Dell XP8300. I use the MS antivirus and Malwarebytes. Never had any problems so far.
My advice would be to use the latest version of Windows that can be supported by your hardware and just learn to work with any differences in function and operation that may entail. Don't worry about all this stuff- not worth the effort IMHO.
Now... Back to important things like building scenery for my layout.
;)
Quote from: austinbob on April 23, 2019, 05:19:23 PM
I've only ever had one virus detected on any of my computers over the years which was successfully binned by whatever virus app I was running at the time.
I've also only ever had one (many years ago), that wasn't binned by AVG antivirus that I was running. it didn't take long to sort out and then swap the antivirus software I was using.
I think a lot depends on the type of websites that are frequented as to the likelihood of getting a virus/malware.
Quote from: austinbob on April 23, 2019, 05:19:23 PM
My advice would be to use the latest version of Windows that can be supported by your hardware and just learn to work with any differences in function and operation that may entail. Don't worry about all this stuff- not worth the effort IMHO.
Now this is the most sensible post I have seen in this thread.
Keep up with the latest and get used to it. If it seems too difficult: ask someone to help.
I help my aunt keeping her computer up to date. She's 89 years old and doesn't understand a thing about computers. Updates are installed automatically and it is really seldom that I have to go there and help her. Last time was when I finally convinced her to move from the Windows live mail app (unsupported since 2012..) to the in built W10 mail app. Most of the work was migrating her contacts but I could possibly have exported those. Took her about five minutes to understand how it works. And about five emails when I was home again :)
Quote from: nookfield on April 23, 2019, 04:51:22 PM
That's not what I am saying. All known vulnerabilities in Win7 have already been fixed. In Win10 Microsoft are still introducing them.
Yes, and when new W7 ones come out they won't be patched. Simple. Hence following Austinbob's advice being common sense.
Quote from: njee20 on April 23, 2019, 04:36:52 PM
Nick something but I can't remember your surname.
Pot/kettle. It's Evans. I don't need to hide behind a pseudonym!
Quote from: austinbob on April 23, 2019, 05:19:23 PM
My advice would be to use the latest version of Windows that can be supported by your hardware and just learn to work with any differences in function and operation that may entail. Don't worry about all this stuff- not worth the effort IMHO.
Now... Back to important things like building scenery for my layout.
[My italics]
Totally agree Bob. Furthermore, speaking purely personally, I think this thread has gone on as much as it should.
QuoteI think this thread has gone on as much as it should.
I'll agree to that, I've not seen any absolutely convincing reason to change; "It ain't broke so why fix it?"
Because it will be broke...
I think its more a accurate to say 'may' be broke. Perhaps there is a lower risk of a security problem if you use the latest windows version with all updates installed.
Also - Using a virus programme, malware detector and firewall is probably a good policy for any version of windows.
I'd suggest running an antivirus programme and firewall on any version of any OS, but yes.
It may become broken at some indeterminate point in the future, agreed, but that didn't work quite so eloquently with the "if it ain't broke" proverb! :)
W10 is virtually guaranteed to be more secure and faster, and to have various other improvements. If you're not fussed about those things (and again, that's entirely your prerogative) then crack on!
Replying to post #38:
Well I'm still using Vista all these years on, and it ain't broke!
Even using Firefox when they said it wouldn't work with Vista a couple of years ago, and it ain't broke either!
So I'll stick with that, especially after my recent experience with surgery.
First thing on google when looking for windows 7 vulnerability brings up this: https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/8/18256335/google-chrome-windows-against-zero-day-vulnerabilities-update (https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/8/18256335/google-chrome-windows-against-zero-day-vulnerabilities-update)
I'm sure MS will fix this (they've said they're working on a patch), but the point is that in the relatively near future (mid Jan 2020) all MS support for W7 finishes. At that point you really are on your own and around 1/3 of the PC market is still using W7.