RevolutioN Trains - All steel ‘K-type’ Pullmans

[gc4946]

I'm considering investing in a pair of parlour brake 3rds making up the end coaches with Mk1 Pullmans of a post-1960 Master Cutler Pullman service

[Bob G]

I'm considering investing in a pair of parlour brake 3rds making up the end coaches with Mk1 Pullmans of a post-1960 Master Cutler Pullman service

Actually none of us know how Revolution plan to market these models. They have  suggested coach packs as per the Mk 5 coaches.

You don't know if you will be able to purchase separate coaches.

Bob

[class8mikado]

 Dont remember seeing anything about this at Tings
Packs of 5  around the  £ 200 + mark will certainly be a little off putting for the purchaser of 1 or 2 unless said person then puts the others on ebuy.
Soon as first saw this i thought  - there were a couple on the Hook continental ? werent there , and as i have a Brit and a B 17 and some dapol gresleys Its a must have.

[Ben A]

Hello all,

Exact format and pricing is yet to be decided.

Having said that, for this project to work we need to ensure all types (Brake 3rd, Parlour 1st/3rd and Kitchen 1st/3rd) reach the minimum numbers for production.

With this in mind it makes sense to package them into packs as we have for other models: we are selling the Drax hoppers in pairs, the Caledonian Sleeper mk5s in packs of four and the TPE Mk5s in packs of five.

However let me emphasise again that we haven't yet finalised how the Pullmans will be marketed, and are always open to suggestions or ideas within the caveat mentioned above.

cheers

Ben A.

[red_death]

The Mk5s only made sense to sell in packs as they run in fixed rakes.

The K types use was obviously very different so our initial thoughts are a combination of train packs and possibly some individual coaches but we will reveal more information late this year or early next year. We've done a lot of research already but we've got to translate that into a financially realistic model offering which we will do as quickly as possible.

Thanks for all the interest!

Cheers Mike

[Karhedron]

Having said that, for this project to work we need to ensure all types (Brake 3rd, Parlour 1st/3rd and Kitchen 1st/3rd) reach the minimum numbers for production.

With this in mind it makes sense to package them into packs as we have for other models: we are selling the Drax hoppers in pairs, the Caledonian Sleeper mk5s in packs of four and the TPE Mk5s in packs of five.

Hi Ben,

As well as whatever packs you opt to produce, may I suggest offering additional loose Brake 3rds? The reason for this is that these Brake 3rds were often mixed with the newer Mk1 Pullman coaches on the ECML since no Mk1 Brakes were built. This would broaden the appeal to include people who have already bought the Farish Mk1 Pullmans. You can see them in service here.

[Karhedron]

Great choice for ECML steam and diesel era modellers, also catering for Southern Region and contemporary modellers!
They've been much requested and will fill a big gap in umber and cream Pullman collections.

They are good for western modellers too I think. The South Wales Pullman made use of K-Types I think.

[Bob G]

Is that a King or a Castle at the head of those Pullmans?

I never know, because (wait for it) "All GWR 4-6-0s look the same" (runs for cover behind a number of Green SR EMUs, all different!)

Bob

[Nbodger]

Is that a King or a Castle at the head of those Pullmans?

I never know, because (wait for it) "All GWR 4-6-0s look the same" (runs for cover behind a number of Green SR EMUs, all different!)

Bob

If I were you I would also keep the sun glasses on whilst hiding in all those lookalike EMU's 

[Bob G]

The Mk5s only made sense to sell in packs as they run in fixed rakes.

The K types use was obviously very different so our initial thoughts are a combination of train packs and possibly some individual coaches but we will reveal more information late this year or early next year. We've done a lot of research already but we've got to translate that into a financially realistic model offering which we will do as quickly as possible.

Thanks for all the interest!

Cheers Mike

Hi Mike

Great choice.

I'm definitely up for some southern versions. Or even anything you make Pullman wise.
There is a thread on RMWeb I'm sure you have seen where the coaches used on the SR were discussed. Agatha and Lorraine spring to mind, but the biggest choice you have is whether to model the numbered coaches as either "Car No 79" (the post 1956 period) or "Car No 79 - Third Class" (the 1931-1956 period) or indeed both.

Also not sure if these were K's or not, but "In 1958 seven Pullman cars were sold to the Southern Region, repainted green and used as buffets, mainly in Southampton boat trains, until withdrawn in 1963". https://sremg.org.uk/coach/pullman.shtml

Must do some more research to figure this out, although repainting a Revolution Pullman in SR Green would be one heck of a waste of a lovely colour scheme.

Bob

[Bob G]

Is that a King or a Castle at the head of those Pullmans?

I never know, because (wait for it) "All GWR 4-6-0s look the same" (runs for cover behind a number of Green SR EMUs, all different!)

Bob

If I were you I would also keep the sun glasses on whilst hiding in all those lookalike EMU's 

Yeah but not the duff ones
You just can't tell who is making a jape on here any more. LOL

[Karhedron]

Is that a King or a Castle at the head of those Pullmans?

I never know, because (wait for it) "All GWR 4-6-0s look the same" (runs for cover behind a number of Green SR EMUs, all different!)

Ruddy cheek!

The South Wales Pullman was normally castle-hauled I think. The only shot I have found of a King with Pullman coaches was in the early days of preservation.

[class8mikado]

The Mk5s only made sense to sell in packs as they run in fixed rakes.

The K types use was obviously very different so our initial thoughts are a combination of train packs and possibly some individual coaches but we will reveal more information late this year or early next year. We've done a lot of research already but we've got to translate that into a financially realistic model offering which we will do as quickly as possible.

Thanks for all the interest!

Cheers Mike

Surely there would be a fairly  normal ratio in these trains of Kitchens to parlours  and 1st to 3rds ( 3rd class pullman isnt that an oxymoron) which your research has kicked up already.  I really appreciate it when suppliers not only produce items  but give plenty of back story to their models though sometimes this is disappointing when the model is superb but you arent keen on rule one (its a prototype on test  - honest!)

[Steven B]

Good luck to anyone suggesting normal ratios out of this lot:

1955 Queen of Scots
3rd Parlour   (Mon-Friday only. removed @ Leeds)
1st Kitchen   (Mon-Friday only. removed @ Leeds)
3rd Brake
3rd Kitchen
3rd Parlour (Fri & Sat only)
1st Parlour
1st Kitchen
1st Kitchen
3rd Parlour
3rd Brake

1959 Master Cutler
2nd Brake
2nd Kitchen
1st Kitchen
1st Kitchen
1st Kitchen
2nd Brake

1955 Tees-Tyne Pullman
3rd Brake
1st Kitchen (FX)
3rd Kitchen (FO)
1st Parlour
3rd Bar-Kitchen
1st Kitchen
1st Parlour
3rd Kitchen
3rd Brake

? Queen of Scots
2nd Kitchen (removed at Leeds)
1st Kitchen (removed at Leeds)
2nd Brake
2nd Kitchen
2nd Parlour (FO)
1st Parlour (FXO
1st Parlour
1st Kitchen
2nd Parlour
2nd Kitchen


? 17:20 Yorkshire Pullman
2nd Brake (Harrogate portion)
2nd Kitchen
1st Kitchen
1st Kitchen
2nd Parlour
1st Parlour (Bradford Portion)
2nd Kitchen
Mk1 BCK     (Leeds Central)
2nd Kitchen (Hull Portion)
1st Parlour
1st Kitchen
2nd Brake

1959 Queen of Scots
2nd Kitchen (to Leeds)
1st Kitchen (to Leeds)
2nd Brake
2nd Kitchen
2nd Parlour
1st Parlour
1st Kitchen
2nd Parlour
2nd Kitchen
2nd Brake


1959 Master Cutler
2nd Brake
2nd Kitchen
1st Kitchen
1st Kitchen
1st Kitchen
2nd Brake

1959 Yorkshire Pullman
2nd Brake (Harrogate)
2nd Kitchen (Harrogate)
2nd Kitchen (Harrogate)
1st Kitchen (Harrogate)
2nd Parlour (Harrogate)
1st Parlour (Bradford Exc)
2nd Kitchen (Bradford Exc)
Mk1 BCK     (Leeds)
2nd Kitchen (Hull)
2nd Parlour (Hull)
1st Kitchen (Hull)
2nd Brake (Hull)

1963 Queen of Scots
2nd Parlour (removed at Leeds)
1st Kitchen (removed at Leeds)
2nd Brake
2nd Kitchen (Y)
2nd Parlour
1st Parlour
1st Kitchen
1st Kitchen
2nd Parlour
2nd Brake


1963 Tees-Tyne Pullman
2nd Brake
1st Parlour (FX)
2nd Kitchen (FO)
1st Kitchen
2nd Bar-Kitchen
1st Kitchen
1st Parlour
2nd Kitchen
2nd Brake


The Queen of Scots ran between King's Cross (KX) and Glasgow, dropping off two coaches in Leeds on the way north. The Master Cutler ran from KX to Sheffield, with the Tees-Tyne Pullman running KX to Newcastle.

The Yorkshire Pullman split at Leeds, with portions going to Bradford, Harrogate and Hull. In LNER days the Bradford portion ran as far as Halifax with a 0-6-2 tank engine in charge.

In most cases the kitchen ends of the cars would be facing the centre of the train, except where two are next to each other, in which case the one towards the end of the train would have its kitchen pointing towards the end.

If I were Mike or Ben I'd be tempted to do two packs as a minimum:
2nd Brake+2nd Parlour + 2nd Kitchen
and
1st Parlour+1st Kitchen
or
1st Parlour+1st Kitchen+1st Kitchen

With the following as options:
2x 1st Kitchen
2x 2nd Brake (to run with Mk1 Pullmans)


Steven B.

[red_death]

The Queen of Scots was probably the most well known train that was regularly all steel K types - the K type "bible" by A Ford has a number of example rakes using all steel K types (plus examples of train rakes with a mix of all steel K types and other Pullman cars).

We will offer as much choice as is feasible but we have to start somewhere (in the large number of Pullman batches!). 

As per our announcement we're doing all 5 all steel K type body shells ie Kitchen 1sts and 3rds, Parlour 1sts and 3rds and Parlour Brake 3rds.

Cheers M