I have, honestly, worked through several threads on NGF about coupling systems proprietary, coupling systems homebrew and I've googled elsewhere. The last time I used a coupling it was a hook on each vehicle which went over a curved bar on each vehicle and you'd balance the two hooks upwards by driving onto a hump and reversing if you wanted to uncouple. The complications I've been reading about today have been hair-raising.
I don't want to restart a conversation which you've collectively had months ago but I didn't really come away with a conclusion as far as who to be directed by. Does one ask the local club what the house standard is? Would it start a genteel elbowing as people came forward with firmly-held beliefs? Is there, in fact, a common standard n-gauge coupler to which all European manufacturers can connect? Should I have read further before starting a thread?
The de-facto standard couple is the Arnold Rapido coupler, which is fairly dependable - I'm still amazed how I can reliably connect say a new Japanese locomotive to a 30~40 year old Lima N-gauge coach (not something I do regularly I hasten to add) - but has its limitations when it comes to aesthetics and uncoupling.
Beyond that there are all kinds of couplers and systems, some of which are manufacturer or country specific; personally I usually stick with Arnold/Rapido as I have a wide range of stock, but for some fixed rakes (mainly Japanese EMUs) I use various close couplings. I'm not really an expert though.
This link might be of interest: http://www.nscaledivision.com/information_on_couplers.htm (http://www.nscaledivision.com/information_on_couplers.htm)
I think a lot depends on how you want to run your layout. I have stuck with standard Arnold Rapido couplings because of cost and because I don't do much shunting on my layout. I admit to having having train set mentality and like to sit and watch the trains go round. :)
If you plan a shunting layout then the coupling system will probably need to be different, you will find lots of advice and opinions on the forum.
Hi Spot,
I reckon, if you are new to N and unsure, just use the standard Rapido couplers that come already fitted to everything you buy.
Most new British outline stock comes with NEM pockets, so it is an easy job to change to certain other coupler types for a trial, and change back again if you are not happy.
(If you have stock with the old sprung coupler boxes you are pretty much stuck with the Rapidos for these wagons, though there are alternative simple "hooks" that are often somewhat hard to source)
As time goes by, if you want slightly less obtrusive couplers, you can change to the simple "hooks" that come with all Dapol wagons (though these are eye-wateringly expensive if you buy them in bulk to convert Farish wagons). If you run trains in fixed rakes, you can have certain trains fitted with Rapidos, others with other types - it really doesn't matter.
If you want to do simple moves detaching locos from stock to perform run-rounds, or to drop off one train and pick up another, then the obvious choice for the ends of the rakes and the locos is the Dapol Easi-Shunt (or Easi-Fit; seems to have changed its name!) system. You can buy just one pair of couplers to try it out, and revert if you are not happy.
If you want to do lots of complex shunting involving manouvering individual wagons around, you might consider fitting all wagons with Easi-Shunts, or possibly going to one of the etched brass types. But you will know for yourself if and when you get to this point!
Hope this helps - keeping my elbows tucked in!
Jon :)
Been quietly watching the topic as it has bearing for me,
On that note does anyone have any suggestions for electromagnetic uncouplers?
Hi Acko,
One thing that you might consider if you are thinking of hands-free operation of Rapidos is to use movable permanent magnets rather than electromagnets, (such as I have used on Lofthole, and others have used different variants). Advantages are - more power than electromagnets, impossible to burn out, less wiring!
If you are thinking about electromagnets for Easi-Shunts it is a different territory - I think Kadee or Microtrains do one - I have seen this reference recently, maybe on here or in a mag..?????
Cheers Jon :)
Couplings on club layouts are kind of an anything goes minefield. On club nights at my MRC when the N Gauge layout is set up for running it doesn't really matter what couplings you use so long as they couple up in trains. What that usually means is that if you bring a locomotive to run, you generally also bring some suitable rolling stock of your own. To be honest, most members (if they even actually own their own stock) stick to the RTR rapidos, which makes running everything together pretty simple. That does lead to its own complications though, especially when packing up at the end of the night as some confusion as to who owns what can and does frequently ensue.
I do have an issue with the Rapidos though, changes in coupler height and the multitude of different angles that they sit causes problems in the long term with uncoupling. I find that when running trains with anything over 30 wagons, even the best set rapidos will occasionally split due to the nature of our layout being laid over 8 boards with all of the associated board to board joins. Close coupling mechanisms also suffer from time to time, as the slop that is inherent in them allows the couplers to work themselves into less than ideal positions from time to time. Some vehicles needing a bit of gentle persuasion in order to behave will frequently see an NEM couler getting ripped out and unceremoniously bent in an effort to get them to behave. This leads us nicely into the whole aftermarket debate.
Regarding aftermarket couplers... I have found the 'easi-shunt' couplers to be sporadic and problematic at times, no matter how well adjusted. I also run US H0 and have (still do) owned my fair share of US N scale, so am no stranger to properly setting up and using knuckle couplers. The light weight of steam era wagons and resistance to the required lateral movement to operate properly causes no end of problems. Generally speaking the wagons twist before the couplers pivot, which doesn't look good on a club night and looks even worse at an exhibition. They're also pretty naff when used on close coupler mechanisms, with a tendancy to uncouple randomly over switchback curvature through pointwork (including large radius, which Bournville uses almost entirely). I have settled on the similar in appearance Microtrains knuckles, which unlike the Dapol offering, actually work when shunting lightweight wagons because the pivoting spring is very light and the range of lateral motion is sufficiently broad. The MTs also have the advantage of being able to couple up to the Dapol knuckles, so if a club member does want to run their models with my own it is a very simple task. I am in the process of converting everything I own to MTs, including those which currently use 'easi-shunts', but in the end I will have a strategic reserve of convertor vehicles with a rapido at one end and MT at the other. This will facilitate other members being able to use my models with their own. I did have a tinker with D&G, but the sheer quantity of stock I have to convert makes it a non starter at this stage as I find them a bit more fiddly to set up, but again a few barrier wagons would cater for running models with different couplers.
At the end of the day, when you're taking models to run on a club layout, it is a good idea to check what the club prefers to use. But even if they name a system that you've never heard of, it is by no means the be all and end all. Their layout may be set up to use D&G couplers, but that won't stop anyone from running a brand new model straight out of the box. It just means that you may not be able to use the layouts uncouplers if you take a model which uses your own preference of coupling. Just be prepared to take along a convertor vehicle in order to operate with the 'house stock' (the odds are that the club will have some already so that new purchases can be run before converting) or take a complete train that is compatible with what you use in the event that a convertor is unavailable.
The biggest barrier is in track/wheel standards, differences in couplers are easily circumvented. :thumbsup:
Wow Zunnan,
A real in depth look at things there.
A lot of it is down to how you want to run things and where (club layouts always tricky)
Thanks Jon,
When you say rapido couplings aren't they the standard ones you get fresh out of the box?
I was looking at the dapol (IIRC) knuckle coulings and then using a magnet to uncouple locos as part of my layout will be a terminus and depot.
Quote from: acko22 on March 30, 2015, 07:49:45 PM
When you say rapido couplings aren't they the standard ones you get fresh out of the box?
I was looking at the dapol (IIRC) knuckle coulings and then using a magnet to uncouple locos as part of my layout will be a terminus and depot.
Yes that's right - the most common way (not necessarily the best) of uncoupling Rapidos is with electromagnets; specifically this intended for the Peco version but you can modify Farish sprung coupler boxes.
Uncoupling Dapol Easi-Fits is normally with permanent magnets (either the special magnet Dapol make or small rare-earth magnets), but as I said above I have recently seen reference to an electromagnet for this - quite possibly on this forum. I am pretty sure it was an American product, Microtrains or KayDee.
Cheers Jon :)
On my layout I want to run long trains in fixed rakes mainly, with shunting being limited to one or two shorter trains on the branch line. To this end I want to be able to run the fixed rake trains reliably without regularly leaving half the train behind (sods law applies so they usually separate in the tunnels ).
The other day, while looking at flea bay, I saw a loco, purporting to be N scale, with 3 link couplings. For my purposes this would appear to be the way forward for me. Does anyone know where these are available from?
Does anyone know of a simple method of uncoupling (not involving magnets/electricity) where you want the train to uncouple EVERY time using rapidos ?
I'm referring to a situation where you have a branch terminus with a run round loop. I'd want the train engine to uncouple every time just before the point for the runround loop. Then the train moves forward, the point is tripped (electronically) and the loco runs around its train ready for the return journey.
Quote from: steve836 on March 30, 2015, 08:06:11 PM
On my layout I want to run long trains in fixed rakes mainly, with shunting being limited to one or two shorter trains on the branch line. To this end I want to be able to run the fixed rake trains reliably without regularly leaving half the train behind (sods law applies so they usually separate in the tunnels ).
The other day, while looking at flea bay, I saw a loco, purporting to be N scale, with 3 link couplings. For my purposes this would appear to be the way forward for me. Does anyone know where these are available from?
Steve - 3 links are generally scale type couplings, which in N gauge would be super-fiddly, one for real finescale purists.
If you just want to avoid accidental uncoupling there would be much easier ways, e.g. using the Dapol "hooks" (Not Easi-Shut/Fits)
I would be intrigued to know about N Scale 3 link couplings - I would imagine you would need a microscope to operate them, but maybe I have the wrong end of the stick.......... :worried:
Cheers Jon :)
Quote from: port perran on March 30, 2015, 08:13:29 PM
Does anyone know of a simple method of uncoupling (not involving magnets/electricity) where you want the train to uncouple EVERY time using rapidos ?
I'm referring to a situation where you have a branch terminus with a run round loop. I'd want the train engine to uncouple every time just before the point for the runround loop. Then the train moves forward, the point is tripped (electronically) and the loco runs around its train ready for the return journey.
Why not using magnets PP? - I know a way but it involves a magnet...........
Cheers Jon :)
Quote from: steve836 on March 30, 2015, 08:06:11 PM
On my layout I want to run long trains in fixed rakes mainly, with shunting being limited to one or two shorter trains on the branch line. To this end I want to be able to run the fixed rake trains reliably without regularly leaving half the train behind (sods law applies so they usually separate in the tunnels ).
I do similar to you and use the Dapol EasiShunts at the points in the rake where I uncouple the fixed rakes (loco, guards van etc) and use the standard Rapidos for the rest of the train, best of both world. I use the standard Dapol magnets embedded in the track to uncouple the EasiShunts, I did try electromagnet uncoupling but couldn't get it to reliably operate every time using automation.
Quote from: PostModN66 on March 30, 2015, 08:19:32 PM
Quote from: port perran on March 30, 2015, 08:13:29 PM
Does anyone know of a simple method of uncoupling (not involving magnets/electricity) where you want the train to uncouple EVERY time using rapidos ?
I'm referring to a situation where you have a branch terminus with a run round loop. I'd want the train engine to uncouple every time just before the point for the runround loop. Then the train moves forward, the point is tripped (electronically) and the loco runs around its train ready for the return journey.
Why not using magnets PP? - I know a way but it involves a magnet...........
Cheers Jon :)
I was only trying to make it really easy. I'd be very interested in your method using the magnets.
Quote from: PostModN66 on March 30, 2015, 08:17:16 PM
Quote from: steve836 on March 30, 2015, 08:06:11 PM
On my layout I want to run long trains in fixed rakes mainly, with shunting being limited to one or two shorter trains on the branch line. To this end I want to be able to run the fixed rake trains reliably without regularly leaving half the train behind (sods law applies so they usually separate in the tunnels ).
The other day, while looking at flea bay, I saw a loco, purporting to be N scale, with 3 link couplings. For my purposes this would appear to be the way forward for me. Does anyone know where these are available from?
Steve - 3 links are generally scale type couplings, which in N gauge would be super-fiddly, one for real finescale purists.
If you just want to avoid accidental uncoupling there would be much easier ways, e.g. using the Dapol "hooks" (Not Easi-Shut/Fits)
Caz- I too am using standard rapidos, but find them unreliable.
I would be intrigued to know about N Scale 3 link couplings - I would imagine you would need a microscope to operate them, but maybe I have the wrong end of the stick.......... :worried:
Cheers Jon :)
I agree that they would be fiddly, but as I would only uncouple for maintenance I could live with that! The locos I saw were advertised as N, but it might have been a mistake.
I was wondering if our friends in the 2mm soc had a supply.
........well,
I would stick a largish rare earth magnet at the desired point of uncoupling, and modify the coupler on the lead vehicle of the train to have a magnetic arm (or just use a Peco wagon with an Elsie coupling and the steel lift arm attached).
I would guess it would work 99.9% of the time. I was planning to use exactly this method on my new shelf layout but have decided to go Dapol!
If you have missed my coupler mod, here it is again...(sorry if you have seen it a million times before), and you can see the principle in operation on my Lofthole videos (again sorry if these are a yawn! :sorrysign:) though for Lofthole the magnets move up and down as the loco has to couple up again from the same end.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/thumb_8777.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=8777)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/thumb_8778.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=8778)
https://youtu.be/lRa9gqsSMp4
Cheers Jon :)
Quote from: steve836 on March 30, 2015, 08:26:05 PM
Quote from: PostModN66 on March 30, 2015, 08:17:16 PM
Steve - 3 links are generally scale type couplings, which in N gauge would be super-fiddly, one for real finescale purists.
If you just want to avoid accidental uncoupling there would be much easier ways, e.g. using the Dapol "hooks" (Not Easi-Shut/Fits)
Caz- I too am using standard rapidos, but find them unreliable.
I would be intrigued to know about N Scale 3 link couplings - I would imagine you would need a microscope to operate them, but maybe I have the wrong end of the stick.......... :worried:
Cheers Jon :)
I agree that they would be fiddly, but as I would only uncouple for maintenance I could live with that! The locos I saw were advertised as N, but it might have been a mistake.
I was wondering if our friends in the 2mm soc had a supply.
Found this on the web........is this what you saw?
http://mathiesonmodels.com/2mm-3-link-couplings.php (http://mathiesonmodels.com/2mm-3-link-couplings.php)
Cheers Jon :)
There's much useful material, thank you all for your thoughts. The 3-link coupler on the Mathieson Models website had caught my eye and makes sense if I ever get to converting the default Rapido coupler. I'm coming to the opinion that what I want to achieve with a layout is something to photograph and film, with the intention of learning how best to fool a TV or photo viewer as far as scale is concerned. I'm pretty sure this must involve swapping Rapido couplers out once the layout is tested.
I had an initial look at the DCC protocol and it's flexible enough to address one end of a wagon and toggle it between couple and uncouple states. I've not found an electro-switchable coupler though. Working that way would remove the need for decouplers pre-positioned on a track, magnetic or otherwise.
Jon,
That diagram you have put for converting the couplings it brill it all makes sense now :) :thankyousign:
Looks like I have some drilling to be getting on with :worried:
Quote from: acko22 on March 30, 2015, 09:41:58 PM
Jon,
That diagram you have put for converting the couplings it brill it all makes sense now :) :thankyousign:
Looks like I have some drilling to be getting on with :worried:
Thanks Acko!
Just to be clear, I think the Dapol system is pretty good, though it does have limitations (particularly the "delayed uncoupling" feature). I am going to use this on new layouts.
My "REMIT" method shown above was invented before the Dapol couplers were introduced, so pretty much we had to make the best of Rapidos, but in my opinion it is the best way of operating Rapidos (as Port Perran wants to do). The mod I have shown assumes you are starting with a traditional sprung coupler box - if you have NEM couplers you need a different approach; and it might be easier to just go Dapol.
This thread has god a bit complicated because there are about three different interested parties - and the topic of coupling is complex with the various permutations, but hopefully we can get a good answer for everyone! :D
Cheers Jon :)
Well I have a lot of couplings to sort out and it's the cheapest way so I won't argue.
Although I did spend 20 minutes looking at them and thinking I have been had here at there is not metal but a picture paints a thousand words!
:greatpicturessign:
Quote from: port perran on March 30, 2015, 08:13:29 PM
Does anyone know of a simple method of uncoupling (not involving magnets/electricity) where you want the train to uncouple EVERY time using rapidos ?
I'm referring to a situation where you have a branch terminus with a run round loop. I'd want the train engine to uncouple every time just before the point for the runround loop. Then the train moves forward, the point is tripped (electronically) and the loco runs around its train ready for the return journey.
This will be close (but not fully auto like I think what your after) & works with any rapidos
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/32/thumb_21240.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=21240)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/32/thumb_21241.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=21241)
Russ
Russ,
Ok 2 questions one where do you get them from? and what mechanics go underneath to make it rise and drop?
Lets make it 3 does it work with the factory fitted dapol and farish rapido fittings?
Here's the underside...messy but functional. Pull the rod - raise the ramp.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/27/thumb_23508.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=23508)
I cant claim any part in this - layout arrived with them on. plan is to upgrade using micro servos to lift.
Simple to make as Iv added one so I know they can be done - just find square section tubes that will telescope one inside the other, solder a flat plate to the top to make the T piece/ramp. Add your choice of raising mechanism (can be anything you want). Simple to mount in the board - drill a suitable hole to one side of centre of the track (then it doesn't lift both couplers!) and gently tap the outer tube in.
Russ
Russ,
While you won't take any credit that is genius in it's simplicity! Does it work on all your rapido type couplings?
I have to have an attempt now :thankyousign:
If you are starting out, stick with the Rapidos at least to begin with. They aren't perfect, but are (almost) universal, (mostly) compatible between different manufacturers and won't be an additional cost...
When you decide to move on to something better for automatic operation, firstly is your stock likely to be used with anyone else's (e.g. on a club or group layout)? if yes, then the best option is to adopt whatever they use for compatibility.
If not then look at what is available. - look at what you see used at exhibitions, and talk to the operators for their opinions.
There isn't really one perfect solution. All are a compromise of:
- Operational reliability.
- Robustness.
- Ease of assembly/fitting.
- Need for modification of stock to fit.
And what suits one person may not suit others...
Thank you guys,
Personally as Jon has shown there is an efficient and reliable way to uncouple rapido type and since that is the default type on models I will stuck with that.
And then for the stuff that will remain fixed rake they will be fitted with close couplings with the end sticking as rapido to allow locos to could as and where.
Quote from: acko22 on March 31, 2015, 06:14:41 PM
Russ,
While you won't take any credit that is genius in it's simplicity! Does it work on all your rapido type couplings?
I have to have an attempt now :thankyousign:
Works on any rapido Iv got. Worth a go - wont cost much to try - couple of concentric square tubes and some solderable off cuts of sheet.
Good luck!
Russ
I had the situation of needing to decouple every time on my Cromford Wharf and Sheep Pasture Incline, pushing wagons onto the incline and extracting either the engine or other wagons not running that rake.
The easiest possible solution, and one that works every time, was a fixed ramp to lift one coupling half. If two wagons are going to run, the first recouples as they both pass the ramp. I tried transparent plastic but in the end shaped Plastrut wide enough only to operate the one half worked so well I left it.
Quote from: Bad Raven on April 01, 2015, 08:57:00 PM
I had the situation of needing to decouple every time on my Cromford Wharf and Sheep Pasture Incline, pushing wagons onto the incline and extracting either the engine or other wagons not running that rake.
The easiest possible solution, and one that works every time, was a fixed ramp to lift one coupling half. If two wagons are going to run, the first recouples as they both pass the ramp. I tried transparent plastic but in the end shaped Plastrut wide enough only to operate the one half worked so well I left it.
Dave - any photos on the web of C&HP layout? I have done a Google, and a search here and RM Web and couldn't find it I don't think (there is a thread on RM Web but it is by someone called Andy and it peters out).
I love the C&HP having walked and cycled it often. In June I am doing a cycling event partly on the High Peak Trail....
Cheers Jon :)
Quote from: PostModN66 on April 01, 2015, 10:27:42 PM
Quote from: Bad Raven on April 01, 2015, 08:57:00 PM
Dave - any photos on the web of C&HP layout? I have done a Google, and a search here and RM Web and couldn't find it I don't think (there is a thread on RM Web but it is by someone called Andy and it peters out).
I love the C&HP having walked and cycled it often. In June I am doing a cycling event partly on the High Peak Trail....
Cheers Jon :)
There was an article in Railway Modeler on a model of "Sheep Pasture Incline" about a year ago. I too like the C&HPR. an the works & yard at the foot of "Sheep Pasture Incline" are on my model based on Cromford. Some pics are in my folder. (look in media section of my profile)
Steve
Quote from: Bad Raven on April 01, 2015, 08:57:00 PM
I had the situation of needing to decouple every time on my Cromford Wharf and Sheep Pasture Incline, pushing wagons onto the incline and extracting either the engine or other wagons not running that rake.
The easiest possible solution, and one that works every time, was a fixed ramp to lift one coupling half. If two wagons are going to run, the first recouples as they both pass the ramp. I tried transparent plastic but in the end shaped Plastrut wide enough only to operate the one half worked so well I left it.
Any chance of a close up photo of that please?
Quote from: port perran on April 02, 2015, 09:14:41 AM
Any chance of a close up photo of that please?
No, sorry, Layout not where it can be erected currently or forseen. Its blindingly simple though, just an offset ramp and paint spot on ballast to locate the stop and in this case loco reverse point!
Currently am considering selling the layout. It's a NMod module hence the three front main line tracks not two as scale, but the Cromford part is self contained and largely operable hands off. View point is standing in the river! Operating postion could be there but usually up the incline. All electric points. Workshop has full interior. buildings from period pics and site visits.
http://www.atomic-album.com/showPic.php/22727/Cromford1.jpg (http://www.atomic-album.com/showPic.php/22727/Cromford1.jpg)
http://www.atomic-album.com/showPic.php/22727/Cromford3_Web.jpg (http://www.atomic-album.com/showPic.php/22727/Cromford3_Web.jpg)
I like blindingly simple.
I shall give that a try.
Brilliant layout though by the way.
Mine are basically the same as Russ uses except I made them out of plasticard. One thing I found helped was to shape the top so that it captures and aligns any recalcitrant couplings. The top instead of being a flat ramp has a central groove that opens out each end. Basically I copied the top pattern off the Fleischmann electric ones.
For small layouts you can also make them operate very simply. Nothing more than a lump of plasticine as a weight on the bottom of the square bit through the board, a string and a loop of wire are needed. The string is secured part way up the rod then goes vertical, over the loop on the underside of the board and horizontally through a small hole in the baseboard edge. You just pull the string gently or firmly as needed. If you let go the plasticine weight ensures it descends.
I ought to try making some out of clear plastic some day. Should work.
Alan
I have got the brass the soldering Iron at the ready and an idea of how to do it.
Lets see if I can now :worried:
If it does they can be masked as AWS ramps or something track fitted!
Quote from: Bad Raven on April 02, 2015, 09:37:06 AM
Quote from: port perran on April 02, 2015, 09:14:41 AM
Any chance of a close up photo of that please?
No, sorry, Layout not where it can be erected currently or forseen. Its blindingly simple though, just an offset ramp and paint spot on ballast to locate the stop and in this case loco reverse point!
Currently am considering selling the layout. It's a NMod module hence the three front main line tracks not two as scale, but the Cromford part is self contained and largely operable hands off. View point is standing in the river! Operating postion could be there but usually up the incline. All electric points. Workshop has full interior. buildings from period pics and site visits.
http://www.atomic-album.com/showPic.php/22727/Cromford1.jpg (http://www.atomic-album.com/showPic.php/22727/Cromford1.jpg)
http://www.atomic-album.com/showPic.php/22727/Cromford3_Web.jpg (http://www.atomic-album.com/showPic.php/22727/Cromford3_Web.jpg)
Thanks Dave - that looks really great - instantly identifiable as Cromford!
I had a big argument with my girlfriend in that workshop - now a tea room!
Cheers Jon :)
Happy memories then Jon :P