Osborns

[Tdm]

I placed an order with Osborns (and paid for) almost a month ago for numerous items for my layout but it has never turned up.
About 4-5 days ago I emailed them asking what had happened to my order - but no reply.
Sent a 2nd email a couple of days ago - and still no reply.
Tried ringing them today (during opening hours) but no-one answered the phone.

Is there a problem with Osborns at the moment does anyone else know?
I have had one previous order from them earlier in the year and that arrived within about 7 to 10 days, and all my orders with Hattons have always arrived within the expected timescale.

I paid by Credit Card so if I don't get an answer soon from Osborns will have to take it up with the Credit Card company to get my money back.

[PaulCheffus]

Hi

Have a read of this
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=9167.msg179192#msg179192

I cancelled my order and got the parts elsewhere as I was fed up with broken promises since last September. I will never attempt to order anything from them again.

Cheers

Paul

[Tdm]

Hi
Have a read of this
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=9167.msg179192#msg179192
I cancelled my order and got the parts elsewhere as I was fed up with broken promises since last September. I will never attempt to order anything from them again.
Cheers
Paul

Thanks for that - so it is not just me.
Will try ringing again tomorrow and if I don't get an acceptable answer will be in touch with the Credit Card company to get my money back.
I only ordered from them because Hattons didn't (then) have in stock some urgent track I wanted and a cutting tool etc.

[NeMo]

Is there a problem with Osborns at the moment does anyone else know?

I bought from Osborns once and in that order most things arrived within the same box a couple days and the last item in that order arrive two months later! Yes, they had completely forgotten to process that part of the order.

On the plus side, they do commission some unique stuff (like the Dapol D1000 in desert sand) and their n-gauge selection is pretty good and keenly priced.

Anyway, Maurice Pearce at Osborns seems to be a keen member of the Yahoo "ngauge" group; I see him post there most weeks, often every day. If you have problems, posting there will surely get his attention.

Cheers, NeMo

[Tank]

I believe Maurice is a member on here, so hopefully he'll see this and be able to respond.

[Roy L S]

I placed an order with Osborns (and paid for) almost a month ago for numerous items for my layout but it has never turned up.
About 4-5 days ago I emailed them asking what had happened to my order - but no reply.
Sent a 2nd email a couple of days ago - and still no reply.
Tried ringing them today (during opening hours) but no-one answered the phone.

Is there a problem with Osborns at the moment does anyone else know?
I have had one previous order from them earlier in the year and that arrived within about 7 to 10 days, and all my orders with Hattons have always arrived within the expected timescale.

I paid by Credit Card so if I don't get an answer soon from Osborns will have to take it up with the Credit Card company to get my money back.

Osborns do not open Mondays so you would not expect them to pick up!

Just for balance, I have been a customer of Osborns for many years and never had any problems at all. That is many orders, always delivered, they have never once let me down.

Roy

[Tdm]

I believe Maurice is a member on here, so hopefully he'll see this and be able to respond.

I hope so as I am getting no joy emailing or ringing!

[Roy L S]

I believe Maurice is a member on here, so hopefully he'll see this and be able to respond.

I hope so as I am getting no joy emailing or ringing!

No excuse for non-replies to e-mails but as I mentioned above, they do not open Mondays so I hardly think it fair to say you tried to phone them today "during opening hours" and got no reply. Their opening times are shown on their Website.

[Caz]

I believe Maurice is a member on here, so hopefully he'll see this and be able to respond.

I hope so as I am getting no joy emailing or ringing!

Maurice is a member on here but hasn't been on for quite a while as he prefers the Yahoo group but his son Michael who now runs the business is a current member on here and has posted recently.

[MikeDunn]

No excuse for non-replies to e-mails

Actually - there is, not that I expect (m)any here to care ...

Email has never, and will never, be a guaranteed service, so stop expecting that.  Don't believe me ?  Read up on the RFCs, protocols etc that define email service.  Only if the protocols are re-done may it become guaranteed.  It's the same with the "my email account has been hacked !" baloney on Yahoo etc; email source addresses are easily spoofed.  It can be fixed - but apparently no-one is willing to rewrite the protocols to prevent it ...

But as you say - if they ain't open on a Monday, don't call them on a Monday !!!

Mike

PS - if you disagree with me, fine ...  I have a guaranteed method of how you can make money by sitting at home playing games on your PC !  Just send me £20 via bank transfer to cover my costs, & the details are yours free !!!

[Roy L S]

PS - if you disagree with me, fine ...  I have a guaranteed method of how you can make money by sitting at home playing games on your PC !  Just send me £20 via bank transfer to cover my costs, & the details are yours free !!!

Oh dear!

[DesertHound]

Email has never, and will never, be a guaranteed service, so stop expecting that.  Don't believe me ?  Read up on the RFCs, protocols etc that define email service.  Only if the protocols are re-done may it become guaranteed.  It's the same with the "my email account has been hacked !" baloney on Yahoo etc; email source addresses are easily spoofed.  It can be fixed - but apparently no-one is willing to rewrite the protocols to prevent it ...

I'm not passing opinion on Osborn's as I have never used them but I think you are being a bit harsh on the chap Mike. Fair enough, calling on a day when they are not open is obviously not going to garner a reply and a bit of homework could have put that one to bed. However, any business I have worked in it's standard etiquette to reply within 1 business day, yes, 1 business day. Anything less, is, frankly speaking, unacceptable. It is an instant form of delivery and if you are running your business with an eye on incoming e-mails then you would be able to reply within 1 working day. The reply might just be a one-liner such as "We acknowledge your correspondence and will get back to you shortly", but a reply it is.

I'm not sure what RFC's and protocols you are referring to. It's simple really, if a business cannot reply in an adequate time frame, then they shouldn't advertise e-mail as a form of correspondence. There are simply too many places to take your cash and spend it these days to have to put up with sub-standard service.

As I eluded to at the top, I'm not having a pop at Osborn's as I don't know the facts. I'm also not having a go at you Mike, just trying to balance out what I think is a fair question by the OP chap.

Tin hat at the ready ... 

Dan

[MikeDunn]

Dan,

Not having a pop back at you - but as you admit you don't understand my point.  I agree that if the mail did get through, it's bad form not to reply ...

(This next bit is getting a touch technical)
All email systems, not just Osborns or yours or mine but all systems, are written to be in conformance to defined RFCs and protocols (eg RFC 821 for email, RFC 5322 for an email address).  If they aren't conforming then they won't work; either in part or in whole.  It's the same with the rest of the Internet, not just email ... it's all defined in international standards.

Now, you click 'send' on a mail on your PC and you assume that the message has gone into the other person's mailbox.  Bad assumption ...  What is supposed to happen is that if a mail is undelivered, you get a message back telling you this - but many ISPs filter email & such a message is dropped ...

This is absolutely nothing to do with the person or business you sent the email to.  It's the way the internet email system works - or sometimes doesn't.

So - back to my original point - don't assume your email got through.  Odds are it did - but there are no guarantees ...

Mike

PS - there are many books, articles, etc you can read up on if you so desire; Google the RFCs I list above; there are many more ...

[NeMo]

(This next bit is getting a touch technical)

And not really germane to the issue.

All email systems, not just Osborns or yours or mine but all systems...

Technical issues aren't the reason* e-mails sent to some traders don't get replies; it's that the traders ignore them, or don't check that address much/at all, or don't know how their computer works. It's not just (sometimes) Osborns but a problem with a lot of the smaller vendors. You talk to them at shows and they'll say that their son (or whoever) used to do the website but he's at university (or wherever) now, so the website doesn't get updated and they don't have the time to check the e-mails.

It is really frustrating for those us who use e-mails and reply to them promptly, even when abroad or travelling, and find it inexplicable how anyone can be so diffident about this wonderful form of communication. It also loses those vendors trade if I want to buy some bits and bobs but can't. One reason for the growth of e-Bay and Amazon Marketplace I'm sure is that they're pretty much there 24/7. You don't have to phone during office hours and you don't have to faff around chasing late deliveries. On the whole both those companies handle problems very efficiently.

Cheers, NeMo

*I'm sure once in a while e-mails are genuinely lost in the aether. But that's rare, very rare, and for the retailers we're talking about here, not a valid explanation.

[DCCDave]

I agree that technically proof of sending is not proof of receipt and that occasionally e-mails do not reach their intended target. But the technological excuse is much overused, by the sender who typically got the e-mail address wrong, or the recipient who did not receive the e-mail, or did and then didn't read it or respond to it in a timely manor.

One just has to look at many, many suppliers, societies etc. in our hobby. They have little idea how to put a website together and little idea of how to converse with their customers unless a telephone or letter is involved.

It still mystifies me why manufacturers/suppliers/service providers think that in this day and age, they can charge for catalogues. Sales 101 surely indicates that this is a barrier to a sale which is easily overcome.

Not all good modellers are good website designers, and it seems that many shopkeepers don't/can't get on with e-mail.

Just my twopence worth

Cheers
Dave