How is the N gauge market doing?

[Chris Morris]

Just been musing on how he N gauge is doing at the moment. The last five years or so has seen fewer and fewer new tooling N gauge locos while there has been quite a boom in 0 gauge ready to run. I think this reflects the fact that it has been easier to get a reasonable return on investment with 0 gauge projects than with N.

I do wonder if we are starting to see an improvement in the situation for N. Reasons for me thinking the outlook may be improving for N:-
1. Although it doesn't involve any great investment Dapol are doing a lot of re-runs in new liveries. Re-runs have been announced for both the class 142 and the class 50 which suggests they first run for both of these have sold reasonably well. If there were large unsold stocks in the warehouse they would not be going for another run.
2. Again, probably not a major investment for them but Bachmann have decided to sell some of the DJM N gauge models through their network. This must mean they expect reasonable sales.
3. There appear to be very few N gauge items being sold in "bargain" sales. This again suggests sales have been reasonably good (or at least near expectations) overall. There have been exceptions such as the Farish castle with early BR emblem. I think the castle has sold well but this particular version hasn't done so well. At the same time there do seem to be plenty of 0 gauge rtr bargains around. This suggests 0 gauge sales may well have been lower than expected.

Its too early to say for sure but maybe these are little signs that the outlook may be starting to improve for British N gauge. There are still issues such as he lack of new N gauge from Farish.  I may be wrong but I suspect that David Haarhous (MD of Bachmann Europe) is keen on N gauge. My guess, and I have not got any inside information at all, is that US locos and stock will always sell in far greater quantities than British N. This is due to the US population being far greater than the UK along with the fact that most US locos ran on lots of different lines right across the country whereas many British locos only ever ran on one region. The greater volumes in the USA means that Kadar in China are always going prioritise their designers and toolmakers to work on US models rather than British models. I suspect, but again have absolutely no inside knowledge, that this might be the case with a new tooling class 45/46. I'm sure there is pent up demand for this model and it will sell well but while there are US projects that might provide a better return on investment due to higher volumes its going to be hard to get a slot for development. If the class 14 sells well then it might help to show Kadar that models of UK locos are worth doing.

Anyway I think that overall we might, just might, be getting to a point where British N gauge is seen by manufacturers as worth investing in once again. I do hope so.

[N_GaugeModeller]

As a consumer I know over last couple of years as I travel around the country and visit many model rail shops, I often see fully stocked 00 gauge display cabinets and almost empty n-gauge displays. The dealers all say the same thing, the makers have a full catalogue but most of it is not available, either it's made in small batches that sell out quickly to collectors or internet preorders or it's in the book but never been released.

If customers can't buy N-Gauge then they either go down the 00 route or just give up and walk away.

I know there has been a little flourish of new models at the moment but that still leaves shops unable to order most catalogue items because of their small batch production system.

I suspect the main problem is that none of them actually own a factory any more and went down the route of having to book production slots in the few factories that can do such work in China, which might have been good for profit but not for actual sales.

Just my take on it.

NGM

[njee20]

Kader (Bachmann) do own their own factories, but ironically that can compound the situation, because they're still tied up doing bigger production runs, and finding a slot for a small production run of N is harder. If you've got a network of third party factories it's potentially easier.

N will always (or at least for the foreseeable future IMO) be second fiddle to OO, but I still see a healthy market. Revolution, Bachmann/EFE/Farish and Dapol are all putting new models out.

[woodbury22uk]

A few days back I drew up a list of the brands who have new tooling planned/being delivered or models out for "Expressions of Interest", and/or re-runs of older tooling. I came up with Arnold, Cavalex, C-Rail Intermodal, Dapol, EFE Rail, Gaugemaster, Graham Farish, Hattons, Kato, KRModels, Revolution Trains, Sonic Models. That is a lot of competition for my spend - and I can confess that a lot of what they have planned appeals to me.

The recent flurry of new liveries announced by Dapol is very reassuring, because I believe that they have recognised an uptick in interest over the past six months or so. Although not particularly a feature just affecting N, the age profile of railway modellers has probably helped demand. People on fixed retirement incomes in particular have had fewer opportunities for spending - holidays, eating out, excursions etc - with an attendant increase in the potential for discretionary hobby spending. Whilst there are those who have suffered financially during the Covid19 pandemic they are outnumbered at the moment by people working from home on full pay, furloughed on reduced income but also with potentially less routine spending opportunities, and fixed income retirees. Whether demand and interest can be sustained is the big question, but just from my own perspective, one thing have learned from the pandemic and lockdown is that I have not missed many of the things I used to spend on, and they do not form part of my future spending plans. There is a slight caution that the value of my savings/pension plan have taken a 4% negative knock, and that collectively we still have to find a way for government to refill the coffers.

[Newportnobby]

Nobby's observations:-

My list of pre orders has not been as long as this for many years.
More and more companies are dipping their toes in the N gauge market e.g. Sonic, Accurascale, EFE and we have more retailers doing special editions.
The forum membership is still growing, with many commenting about returning to N or starting on new lockdown projects.

Nobby's concerns:-
If models don't sell well those dipping their toes in the market will not repeat the exercise.
It's all well and dandy announcing all the new stuff (Dapol!!) but where, oh where, does it all fit into this pipeline they allude to. I've remarked before I have 4 models in that pipeline and no clue as to what will be available and when. The 'Digest' forum is as much use as a chocolate fireguard yet I thought this was to be the medium for communication.
I'm sorry, but with the exception of RevolutioN, communication from our supply base is pretty dismal. As a result the likes of Gaugemaster, Kernow and Cheltenham Model Centre stand no chance of telling us anything either

[Roy L S]

I think things are looking pretty positive too. Like Mick I have a fairly large amount on pre-order, thankfully a good chunk of it paid for already.

I am hoping the Sonic 56xx does well, so as to encourage a second steam loco to follow, but what I would really like to know is where Farish will go next as far as steam locos are concerned now that the 8F (last in the current pipeline) is on the verge of release. I guess we will know in time.

The brand I am not sure about is EFE Rail, is that simply a mechanism to market non Kader items already tooled, or will the plan include new models? Irrespective I am mighty glad it has enabled the Clayton to see the light of day.

Roy

[Invicta Alec]

My concern is more about the actual N gauge buyers themselves.

Newportnobby tells us that the forum membership is still growing. The pessimist in me says "yeah but I bet the average age is still rising too". (I stand to be corrected of course). Although us retired types have the means to afford more models we are not the future of the hobby.

How many forum members are in their 30s as compared to us lot in our 60/70s and what are they buying? A large part of our hobby is nostalgia and many will build a layout focused around memories of their youth.

If you are fifty years old you missed Neil Armstrong landing on the moon and you'll likely not buy a model of Apollo 11 to make. Neither would you remember trains being hauled through your local station by a snorting smoke billowing steam locomotive. You might remember fondly travelling on a first generation diesel rail car though and buy one of those. Like I keep saying to Mr. Metcalfe, we can't keep on building his (excellent) 1920s terraced houses! To Oxford die cast I say, enough of the Jowett Javelins already - where are the Sierras and Cavaliers?!

My feeling is that the N gauge market could do itself a favour by looking a bit more at the modern end?

Just my 2 cents worth (expecting to be shot down in flames).   

Alec.

[jpendle]

How many forum members are in their 30s as compared to us lot in our 60/70s and what are they buying? A large part of our hobby is nostalgia and many will build a layout focused around memories of their youth.

If you are fifty years old you missed Neil Armstrong landing on the moon and you'll likely not buy a model of Apollo 11 to make. Neither would you remember trains being hauled through your local station by a snorting smoke billowing steam locomotive. You might remember fondly travelling on a first generation diesel rail car though and buy one of those.

Cheek! I'm only 58 thank you 

When I was in my thirties I spent all my time bringing up 3 kids and all my money on them as well, plus of course the mortgage. A brief attempt to get started with N Gauge, when I was in my twenties fell by the wayside until the kids were grown.

I do have memories of 1st gen DMU's, but 'fond' is not the first adjective that springs to mind 

Regards,

John P

[Steven B]

Dapol went through a blip when Dave Jones left. His replacement was an O Gauge man and so it's unsuprising that their RTR O Gauge range has grown. It's nice to see that they're planning on producing new liveries on the Pacers, class 66, HST and re-runs of the SR CCT. Add on the newly tooled Mk3 Sleeper and the West Country / Battle of Britain then they start to look like they're doing OK.

Farish have been all but sleeping for the last few years. Part of their problem was anouncing huge new ranges in both OO and N, apparently without the factory capacity to back it up. This has been compounded by Bachmann taking over the UK rights to Thomas the Tank Engine, and increasing the size of their existing Thomas range (and expanding to N Gauge) meaning factory slots that could have been used for British N have been used for Thomas and his friends. Whilst this is anoying to N Gauge modellers nobody can argue from a commercial point of view that that an N Gauge Thomas will sell many many more than any other British 0-6-0 tank engine and is so much more worthy of the production slot in the factory.

Steven B.

[Dorsetmike]

The memories that influence my modelling are of trainspotting in the mid to late 1940s on the SR main line between Bournemouth and Dorchester, plus a few visits to London termini. Hence my preference for olive green, not much of the Mala#hite and no spam cans got west of Bournemouth.

[Newportnobby]

Newportnobby tells us that the forum membership is still growing. The pessimist in me says "yeah but I bet the average age is still rising too". (I stand to be corrected of course).

How many forum members are in their 30s as compared to us lot in our 60/70s and what are they buying? A large part of our hobby is nostalgia and many will build a layout focused around memories of their youth

Without doing another poll as to the age of the membership that cannot be answered but my gut feeling (and I also stand to be corrected) is that younger folks are joining. Younger is, of course, a relative term. I think we all accept between maybe 16 - 50 years of age means other things take priority and disposable income. As someone also once said "Nostalgia isn't what it used to be"

Here's the poll I ran 5 years ago. I've asked Admin if we can put 2 polls into one thread i.e. age groups and era modelled to see if we can get any info from that.

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=29395.0

what I would really like to know is where Farish will go next as far as steam locos are concerned now that the 8F (last in the current pipeline) is on the verge of release.

@Roy L S
If they struggle to think of something (and I don't want to fire up another wishlist thread) they could consider re-tooling some of their elder stuff like a Crab, V2 and Peaks.
Dare I suggest they even start listening to their customers?

[JimSan]

Just like to chime in as a mid-30s N Gauge modeller who primarily models BR(S) which ended a good 20 years before my time started on this planet, even my interest in Network Southeast which is within my lifetime (I'm a couple months older) also pretty much ended before I was ten and have no memory of it.
I don't really have any modern models (though might get the odd couple), so nothing which would tie into nostalgia in that regard.
Living near a disused railway line (which is sadly now a bus route) made me interested in the railways which use to be in my area (or could've been) rather than what I grew up with since I didn't really see many real trains till much later on.
Though I am slowly branching out as run out of SR locos to buy and finding out from my Father that one of his relatives (his Uncle maybe) use to be a GWR Driver, but also just getting what also seems interesting as well.

[Dorsetmike]

If they struggle to think of something (and I don't want to fire up another wishlist thread) they could consider re-tooling some of their elder stuff like a Crab, V2 and Peaks.
Dare I suggest they even start listening to their customers?

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it "HOW ABOUT SOME SOUTHERN 4-6-0S" choice of 4 classes (more if you include exLSWR),

[railsquid]

How many forum members are in their 30s as compared to us lot in our 60/70s and what are they buying? A large part of our hobby is nostalgia and many will build a layout focused around memories of their youth.

If you are fifty years old you missed Neil Armstrong landing on the moon and you'll likely not buy a model of Apollo 11 to make. Neither would you remember trains being hauled through your local station by a snorting smoke billowing steam locomotive. You might remember fondly travelling on a first generation diesel rail car though and buy one of those. Like I keep saying to Mr. Metcalfe, we can't keep on building his (excellent) 1920s terraced houses! To Oxford die cast I say, enough of the Jowett Javelins already - where are the Sierras and Cavaliers?!

Speaking entirely from my own experience as someone who grew up with rattly blue'n'grey 1st generation DMUs (not all bad, I bounced up and down on a seat on one once and a small cache of pound coins fell out of it) and know steam from occasional trips to preserved railways, while initially I was focussed on what I still mentally refer to as "modern era" (i.e. mid/late 1980s BR) the wonders of the internet have opened up a whole new window into the past and I have found myself slipping back into the Kettle Era, which is much more "accessible" now than it was when I was growing up, if you see what I mean. For the same reason I have a growing collection of pre-Apollo Japanese stock, simply because I keep looking up the lines I'm interested in and finding old pictures and thinking "oooh, I want one of those". I'm sure I'm not the only one to whom this kind of thing happens.

Would love to be able to buy a model of the kind of rattly blue'n'grey 1st generation DMUs which dispensed pound coins, but so far no-one has made them in N. Same goes for 1980s cars.

Not sure if I'd want to make an Apollo model, but I do possess a small stash of Apollo-related literature 

[Newportnobby]

Dare I suggest they even start listening to their customers?

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it "HOW ABOUT SOME SOUTHERN 4-6-0S" choice of 4 classes (more if you include exLSWR),

I guess you need to round yourselves up and present a mass petition, Mike. I seem to recall the King Arthur and Lord Nelsons always did quite well in polls but no one has taken them up