Dapol Loco Hauled Intercity Swallow Mk3's

[simonprelude]

Didn't a batch of these have Intercity 125 on them, perhaps one set of codes are the wrong ones?

[Vonzack]

Didn't a batch of these have Intercity 125 on them, perhaps one set of codes are the wrong ones?

They had different product codes and were Exec livery loco hauled stock.

[jivebunny]

The "Intercity 125 logo on loco-hauled coaches" blunder affected the loco-hauled coaches in IC Executive livery, rather than IC Swallow. The references for those were in the 2P-005-1xx range, and the more honest retailers list them as having a livery error. The new IC Swallow coaches have the 2P-005-22x reference numbers and completely replace the old NC-xxxx Swallow references, which also suffered from livery problems (namely not actually being in IC Swallow colours...). Dapol reference numbers are a complete minefield, but having already been burned once by these livery "variations" I'm now very cautious!

Looking forward to being able to put together a nine-coach rake with a DVT on the back (once the corrected DVT is released!) 

Cheers,

JB

[simonprelude]

Which livery is correct for the DVT then?

I have the DVT 82116 in Intercity Swallow livery, is this one correct or should I sell it on.
ND-089C I'm looking at creating a mixture of class 86/87 and class 90 workings.

[jivebunny]

A correctly-liveried Intercity DVT has yet to be released unfortunately. The current Intercity DVT is basically Executive livery with Swallow logos. The colours match Dapol's older - incorrectly-coloured - IC Swallow Mk3 stock (and the Exec stock, which they shouldn't match), but they don't match the corrected stock which has been released more recently.

The corrected IC Swallow DVT is due in three or four months according to Dapol - reference 2D-017-002.

JB

[Brooksy]

Can't find the buffet car on Hattons - someone mentioned already having one - is it still available? What is the product code? Is it the right colour?

What is a typical formation? Loco (class 86?), 3 x first, buffet, 5 x second, DVT? Also was there a different coach with the guard or did he/she go in the DVT?

[red_death]

Brooksy

What period and location are you after? In the mid 80s before the DVTs arrived you often got mixes of Mk2s and Mk3s or Mk3s with a Mk1 full brake.  There were only 3 Mk3 brakes ever built (Mk3b BFOs).

The guard would either be in the brake or in the DVT when they had been manufactured.

Cheers, Mike

[Brooksy]

Brooksy

What period and location are you after? In the mid 80s before the DVTs arrived you often got mixes of Mk2s and Mk3s or Mk3s with a Mk1 full brake.  There were only 3 Mk3 brakes ever built (Mk3b BFOs).

The guard would either be in the brake or in the DVT when they had been manufactured.

Cheers, Mike

Mike,

Thanks for the reply. I thought the Swallow livery started in 1987 (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterCity_%28British_Rail%29) but for me the time period is not that important as I run a mix of both time and place(/country) (Rule No1) but I like to have each set to be at least close to prototypical. So running with a DVT, what is a typical or fairly common set composition. Were there any MK1 or MK2 brakes in swallow livery (or did they use ones from different liveries)?

Cheers,

Brooksy

[jivebunny]

Can't find the buffet car on Hattons - someone mentioned already having one - is it still available? What is the product code? Is it the right colour?

I have one myself and they match the newer / corrected Swallow livery, there's quite a difference when compared to the older version of the stock (see below). The reference number for the loco-hauled Swallow buffet is 2P-005-211, Rails of Sheffield have them in stock.

What is a typical formation? Loco (class 86?), 3 x first, buffet, 5 x second, DVT? Also was there a different coach with the guard or did he/she go in the DVT?

As Mike says, it all depends on period and location. I'm modelling the Chester area so what I used to see was a mix of the following:

47 (+ sometimes an 86/87 trailing) + 2/3xFO + RUB + 5/6xSO + DVT
47 + DVT + 2/3xFO + RUB + 5/6xSO (+ sometimes an 86/87 on the back)
47 + random Mk1/Mk2 brake + 2xFO + RUB + 5xSO + random Mk1/Mk2 brake (before the arrival of DVTs)

Occasionally you'd see a 47 + DVT + ten Mk3s, mainly during the summer months.

Beautiful rakes though in that livery, which is why it's so annoying to have colour mismatches!

JB

[Zunnan]

So running with a DVT, what is a typical or fairly common set composition.

The typical WCML sets that I was catching in the mid-late '90s were typically 10 car formations running as (from the London end) DVT/FO/FO/FO/RFM/TSO/TSO/TSO/TSO/TSO whether they were Mk2 or Mk3 formed. The only real variation was one less FO meant one more TSO, and the Mk3 formed trains were almost always all Mk3 coaches. The Mk2 formed trains always used aircons (Mk2d/e/f) and ran with a Mk3 catering vehicle by this time, it was highly unusual to see Mk2 and Mk3 FO/TSO mixing together.

Were there any MK1 or MK2 brakes in swallow livery (or did they use ones from different liveries)?

Cheers,

Brooksy

Prior to the arrival of the DVTs the trains ran with an NEA, which was basically a BG cleared for high speed running and rode on B4 bogies. Most of the NEA that I saw were in unbranded Intercity Exec livery (known affectionately as Raspberry Ripple livery), so were basically identical to INTERCITY Mk2 and Mk3 stock, but I did see a few Blue/Grey vehicles from time to time. The same can be said for the RFM, before these arrived catering was provided by ageing Mk1 RB coaches in either unbranded IC Exec or Blue/Grey livery, and there is plenty of video evidence on youtube of the above formation using either Mk2 aircon or Mk3 coaches with the Mk1 predecessors to the RFM and DVT, they were very much set formations for some time before the new Mk3 vehicles were introduced. If you step back a few years further into the mid '80s the formations begin to get very mixed up, it was certainly not uncommon to see vehicles from Mk1, Mk2 (both aircon and pressure ventilated) and Mk3 all in one train with the guard provided anything from a BG to a Mk2f BSO (or two...or more).

The forthcoming Farish aircon Mk2 BSO will probably be available in INTERCITY livery, but by the time this livery came about I think that the WCML and XC had settled into fixed sets more or less, the BSO was more an XC fixture by then and the pressure ventilated Mk2s were a dying breed on main line services. With the INTERCITY liveried Mk3 stock you're looking really at Mk1 RB and NEA in unbranded InterCity or Blue/Grey for early in the period, and DVT/RFM for the 90's onward.

edit ~
THIS VIDEO from 1991 captures the early DVT era very nicely, with some locomotives hauling from the DVT end, as well as the ubiquitous formation (shown beautifully at 58 seconds).

[Brooksy]

Beautiful rakes though in that livery, which is why it's so annoying to have colour mismatches!

JB

I think they look rather good too and am tempted to make a set. That's when I did a lot of my early intercity travelling and remember them fondly. Although, I mainly travelled on HSTs Paddington/Bristol, I fancy a loco hauled set as I have an HST in Midland Mainline livery and am thinking my next HST will be in BR blue, whenever that may be.

Thanks for all the info! 

[Brooksy]

THIS VIDEO from 1991 captures the early DVT era very nicely, with some locomotives hauling from the DVT end, as well as the ubiquitous formation (shown beautifully at 58 seconds).

Nice! I notice that most of the passenger trains has 87s on them - would be nice to have one of them in the correct livery to pull it. Also like that last parcels (I presume) train with an NSE 86 and mismatch of different coaches behind - you don't see them like that anymore!

Thanks also for the info on train formations.