Dapol Black Label Product Launch

[Intercity]

I guess you missed the first word in my post, just to clarify it was "If" not "when"

[Adam1701D]

No plans at present for a premium brand in N but perhaps one day...

[Newportnobby]

No plans at present for a premium brand in N but perhaps one day...

Now that really is leading with your chin, Adam
It's open to some eejit saying "If you plan to be a premium brand it suggests you don't consider yourselves one" which then leads to "Who do you think is the premium brand in N at present?"

[Adam1701D]

No plans at present for a premium brand in N but perhaps one day...

Now that really is leading with your chin, Adam
It's open to some eejit saying "If you plan to be a premium brand it suggests you don't consider yourselves one" which then leads to "Who do you think is the premium brand in N at present?"

Look, I am just trying to provide helpful answers as best I can. If certain members seem intent on running Dapol down, deserved or not, then I shall go elsewhere.

[Bob G]

Well I guess the perception of Dapol would help if your products were not broken upon arrival... (M7, Yeoman hoppers...) or over ten years late (BoB...)

OK some products are great (50s, 68s, even 9Fs and Britannias) but... you need to maintain that standard. It's no wonder some folk are grizzly.

Bob

[Newportnobby]

No plans at present for a premium brand in N but perhaps one day...

Now that really is leading with your chin, Adam
It's open to some eejit saying "If you plan to be a premium brand it suggests you don't consider yourselves one" which then leads to "Who do you think is the premium brand in N at present?"

Look, I am just trying to provide helpful answers as best I can. If certain members seem intent on running Dapol down, deserved or not, then I shall go elsewhere.

It was tongue in cheek - hence the winking emoji

[Bob G]

No plans at present for a premium brand in N but perhaps one day...

Now that really is leading with your chin, Adam
It's open to some eejit saying "If you plan to be a premium brand it suggests you don't consider yourselves one" which then leads to "Who do you think is the premium brand in N at present?"

Look, I am just trying to provide helpful answers as best I can. If certain members seem intent on running Dapol down, deserved or not, then I shall go elsewhere.

It was tongue in cheek - hence the winking emoji

And I thought I was about to be moderated...   

[Newportnobby]

I won't, and can't, moderate anyone expressing an opinion unless it breaks forum rules e.g. mentions politics and religion etc..

[Adam1701D]

Well I guess the perception of Dapol would help if your products were not broken upon arrival... (M7, Yeoman hoppers...) or over ten years late (BoB...)

OK some products are great (50s, 68s, even 9Fs and Britannias) but... you need to maintain that standard. It's no wonder some folk are grizzly.

Bob

Well I guess the perception of Dapol would help if your products were not broken upon arrival... (M7, Yeoman hoppers...) or over ten years late (BoB...)

OK some products are great (50s, 68s, even 9Fs and Britannias) but... you need to maintain that standard. It's no wonder some folk are grizzly.

Bob

I do see where you're coming from Bob and we are working hard to improve things. I can't comment publicly on the M7 and Hoppers, as these were in the can before I joined. The Bulleid Light Pacific, the Class 59, Mogul and the 66 are being made by different factories and are shaping up very nicely. Please bear with use now we have some N Gauge feet under the table

[Bob G]

I do see where you're coming from Bob and we are working hard to improve things. I can't comment publicly on the M7 and Hoppers, as these were in the can before I joined. The Bulleid Light Pacific, the Class 59, Mogul and the 66 are being made by different factories and are shaping up very nicely. Please bear with use now we have some N Gauge feet under the table

Hi Adam

I have multiple orders in on the Mogul and a thousand orders on the BoB/WC.

I moved my order on the 59 to Revolution as I discovered you are not doing the earliest 59s, as I want 59001/2 in 1986 condition, and you have not modelled that version.
I don't go as far as a 66 in my buying era range.

I'm trying in all ways to support all N gauge manufacturers. But I respect all their communication policies and love to know what is happening to my future orders and to future production. Dapol Digest was too good to be true when it started but when Dapol laid off the lady who ran it (well that's what it seemed from outside) it became useless. It is useful that you are on this  forum and post sometimes personal and sometimes Dapol slanted information.

I hope that you can keep up the edgy comms, and feed back the forum view to Dapol and Joel, as he is a bit too much of an accountant and less of a modeller at times. I respect the fact that OO profits sometimes take the preference over N, but I would dispute the role that O has over N in a balanced UK market. Sometimes it seems from your lead PDM that O is the saviour of the world's railway modellers. It is not. Every scale in moderation!

Cheers
Bob

[Firstone18]

Being a DC dinosaur who will never go to DCC I have absolutely no interest in lighting in stock (and even less in sound) and my models are bought to run on a layout – not to gaze lovingly at an interior or fully detailed underframe.
The manufacturers can bring out whatever coloured label they like as long as the usual standard is kept alive at the 'normal' price and these 'superdetailed' thingies are sold at a price I'll never pay in my life.
I really don't know who comes up with this malarkey but believe their time could be better spent getting the quality of every release right

I'm with Newportnobby, both Dapol and Bachmann-GF should spend their money on getting reliable mechanisms and much better quality control at their manufacturing sites. Those of us who cannot see highly detailed interiors when viewing at more than 500mm can definitely see poor running and starting performance.
Just my view, but I've decided not to buy any more Dapol, GF, or Sonic following too many returns of duff out of the box locos - all steam in my case.

[Adam1701D]

We are investing a lot in improved mechanisms for the DJ-era steam locomotives, with improved quality valve gear and, where possible, moving the motor into the loco. Future releases are being built at different factories and will be loco-drive.

This does take time to filter through to the market but improvements are on the way.

[Bazza]

I'm with Newportnobby, both Dapol and Bachmann-GF should spend their money on getting reliable mechanisms and much better quality control at their manufacturing sites. Those of us who cannot see highly detailed interiors when viewing at more than 500mm can definitely see poor running and starting performance

I don't think it's a matter of having detail or performance with one sacrificed for the other. I'd like to think that consumers could expect and have both in a model package; super fidelity and detail as well as peerless operating performance.

[Roy L S]

Being a DC dinosaur who will never go to DCC I have absolutely no interest in lighting in stock (and even less in sound) and my models are bought to run on a layout – not to gaze lovingly at an interior or fully detailed underframe.
The manufacturers can bring out whatever coloured label they like as long as the usual standard is kept alive at the 'normal' price and these 'superdetailed' thingies are sold at a price I'll never pay in my life.
I really don't know who comes up with this malarkey but believe their time could be better spent getting the quality of every release right

I'm with Newportnobby, both Dapol and Bachmann-GF should spend their money on getting reliable mechanisms and much better quality control at their manufacturing sites. Those of us who cannot see highly detailed interiors when viewing at more than 500mm can definitely see poor running and starting performance.
Just my view, but I've decided not to buy any more Dapol, GF, or Sonic following too many returns of duff out of the box locos - all steam in my case.

I have had very few problems with the Bachmann Farish steam loco mechanisms, be they tender-drives or more recent coreless motor loco-drives. I handle my locos with extreme care, I do not drag locos with traction tyres "dead" along the track (not even for a mm - I lift tyred wheels clear) I do not use any kind of solvent to clean track (just a good old rubber) - simple precautions.

By way of just one example, the most recent Farish 8F is an exceptional model, it looks exquisite and runs superbly and I have heard of very few failures, I am sure that if treated with respect my two will give very long service.

Personally I do not want to regress to less detail, less technology and "near enough is good enough" locos on generic chassis. I absolutely agree with Adam, you can have both detail and performance, and as Ben Ando has said on a number of occasions, reducing detail doesn't make a model significantly cheaper, it is the volume produced that has the biggest influence on cost.

Given what manufacturers are producing (and they wouldn't if there wasn't a market for them) the majority (like me) are wanting greater detail, DCC advances like plug and play sound, and on top of that a model that runs well too. That is where the future lies, not clunky locos lacking detail on generic chassis.

Too many people look at the likes of Union Mills through rose-tinted spectacles, for sure they have their place and their fans amongst the modelling fraternity, but are not without faults and most certainly not the future on N Gauge modelling.

Roy

[Firstone18]

Being a DC dinosaur who will never go to DCC I have absolutely no interest in lighting in stock (and even less in sound) and my models are bought to run on a layout – not to gaze lovingly at an interior or fully detailed underframe.
The manufacturers can bring out whatever coloured label they like as long as the usual standard is kept alive at the 'normal' price and these 'superdetailed' thingies are sold at a price I'll never pay in my life.
I really don't know who comes up with this malarkey but believe their time could be better spent getting the quality of every release right

I'm with Newportnobby, both Dapol and Bachmann-GF should spend their money on getting reliable mechanisms and much better quality control at their manufacturing sites. Those of us who cannot see highly detailed interiors when viewing at more than 500mm can definitely see poor running and starting performance.
Just my view, but I've decided not to buy any more Dapol, GF, or Sonic following too many returns of duff out of the box locos - all steam in my case.

I have had very few problems with the Bachmann Farish steam loco mechanisms, be they tender-drives or more recent coreless motor loco-drives. I handle my locos with extreme care, I do not drag locos with traction tyres "dead" along the track (not even for a mm - I lift tyred wheels clear) I do not use any kind of solvent to clean track (just a good old rubber) - simple precautions.

By way of just one example, the most recent Farish 8F is an exceptional model, it looks exquisite and runs superbly and I have heard of very few failures, I am sure that if treated with respect my two will give very long service.

Personally I do not want to regress to less detail, less technology and "near enough is good enough" locos on generic chassis. I absolutely agree with Adam, you can have both detail and performance, and as Ben Ando has said on a number of occasions, reducing detail doesn't make a model significantly cheaper, it is the volume produced that has the biggest influence on cost.

Given what manufacturers are producing (and they wouldn't if there wasn't a market for them) the majority (like me) are wanting greater detail, DCC advances like plug and play sound, and on top of that a model that runs well too. That is where the future lies, not clunky locos lacking detail on generic chassis.

Too many people look at the likes of Union Mills through rose-tinted spectacles, for sure they have their place and their fans amongst the modelling fraternity, but are not without faults and most certainly not the future on N Gauge modelling.

Roy

I did say this was my experience, and I accept others will have had different experiences. My first Sonic was returned, and the replacement was just as bad, it also looked like it was not exactly brand new to me; it also went back. After trying two Dapol Schools both of which were returned, I tried a GF WD which ran perfectly out of the box. After running in, and fitting a decoder it ran really well on the club layout. Roughly three weeks later it failed and was also returned and exchanged for another WD. The replacement was clearly brand new, and has run perfectly for well over 9 months now.
So I accept I may have been unlucky, but multiple bad experiences tend to influence my choices.
Even when I was intending to purchase a loco (or two) at TINGS last year no sellers offered to show me the loco running, not even on a straight piece of track, so I didn't buy any locos there.
Again, I stress, this is just my opinion based on my experiences. Thankfully, everyone is different and will have different views on what they want from their layout, it would be very boring if we were all the same.
This will be my final comment on this thread as I don't want to start a war of words!
Cheers