Dapol Mk3 Intercity DVT

[jivebunny]

How do you expect one photographed by someone at home to differ from the one that Kernow photographed? Their's is the photo you posted on RMWeb yesterday. I would be very surprised if they are not all the same. Or is the suggestion that the Kernow photo is misleading? I expect you have checked with them already that the photo is of the new batch before reposting their photo.

Thanks for your insightful response but you seem to have completely missed the point, unless you can explain how the photos from Dapol / Rails / Kernow allow us to determine whether Dapol's DVT matches Dapol's Mk3s.

Where did I say I expected the models received to be any different to the photos? What I'd like to know before buying is whether Dapol have corrected the livery as they've done with the coaches (thus we have matching models), or just re-issued the old incorrect livery with a new number.

The photo Kernow and Rails posted clearly show 82101, so I don't think there's much debate to be had over whether it's the new batch or not. Rails have explicitly confirmed their photo show the new model as received. Kernow posted their own watermarked photo to their website and to Dapol's Facebook page the day they received their stock, so I think we can reasonably conclude that it's the actual model as received and they haven't just decided to slap together a photoshopped image of the old, inaccurate model the day the stock came in.

I think that most people who have them already are:-

a) happy with them; or
b) unhappy with them and sent them back; or
c) did not realise there was a big issue with the livery; and/or
d) not visitors to this forum.

Granted, some people are happy to spend £35 on unfinished, sub-standard products and that's their problem to deal with once they add it to their rake of Mk3s and realise it looks completely out of place. However modellers who bought the first one, realised it looked terrible, and have since been on pre-order lists for a very long time waiting for the corrected livery to be released are going to be a little bit miffed if after all that time the manufacturer just re-runs the old livery - a livery which is not only still just as wrong but no longer actually matches anything else in the range since everything's been re-issued in corrected liveries. Similarly, these people wouldn't be happy buying a rake of current-release coaches in the same livery and getting home to find out one of them's in a different colour scheme, or a lovely silver-and-red Pendolino to find one of the driving cars is actually white-and-red, or ten rolls of light blue wallpaper to find one of them is actually light green.

It's a shame people are apparently willing to accept whatever manufacturers deem to be roughly passable.

JB

[red_death]

Thanks for your insightful response but you seem to have completely missed the point, unless you can explain how the photos from Dapol / Rails / Kernow allow us to determine whether Dapol's DVT matches Dapol's Mk3s.

Where did I say I expected the models received to be any different to the photos? What I'd like to know before buying is whether Dapol have corrected the livery as they've done with the coaches (thus we have matching models), or just re-issued the old incorrect livery with a new number.

I think that part of Mike's (woodbury22uk) point was that the photos show that Dapol haven't corrected the livery to match their later Mk3s.

Repeatedly posting a similar thing isn't going to change that.

While I agree with you that Dapol should have done better, nothing is going to be changed now that the models have been produced (unless Dapol do a product recall).  The issue of whether to purchase them or not is a difficult one - if you do then do we risk accepting any old tat? If we don't what are the likelihood of them being re-run?

Cheers, Mike

[ScottyStitch]

So, these have now been available for two days and any pre-orders will presumably have arrived on doormats / desks, yet not a single photo seems to have appeared other than on the retailers' websites. Is it just me or is that not a good sign? I would have thought they'd be quite sought-after if they were in the correct livery.

JB

The photos on the web appear to be too separate pictures, with two distinctly different exposures.

Maybe, instead of surmising, a better approach might have been a post such as:

"Has anyone received the new issue of DVT? If so would someone mind posting a photograph of it next to the latest and correct coloured coaches, I'd appreciate it very much. Thanks in advance."?

Just a thought....

[jivebunny]

The photos on the web appear to be too separate pictures, with two distinctly different exposures.

There's no question about whether they're different pictures or not, since they were all taken by different companies and the DVT is at different angles in each one. However, regardless of the exposure (Kernow's looks pretty much spot on judging by the yellow warning panel) they all seem to show a livery which won't match the current Mk3s since their rooves and sides are almost black in appearance, which doesn't appear to be the case on the DVT.

Maybe, instead of surmising, a better approach might have been a post such as:

"Has anyone received the new issue of DVT? If so would someone mind posting a photograph of it next to the latest and correct coloured coaches, I'd appreciate it very much. Thanks in advance."?

Just a thought....

Sorry, I didn't think I'd asked in a particularly rude way in my original post. My post today was just stating my surprise that no photos had yet been posted, since normally that's one of the first things people do when they receive or pick up new releases. MDR have had one on eBay at standard RRP for three days now and nobody's bought it. Seems a bit unusual for a long-awaited, low-price item you'd expect to be selling like hotcakes.

Hopefully someone will be along soon with a photo of the new DVT with a new Mk3, as until we actually see both together we can't be 100% sure that Dapol have actually made a mess of it. It's looking likely though unfortunately.

JB

Anyway, it looks like the general consensus is that Dapol still haven't been able to produce a correct livery on the IC DVT, despite a six-year wait and the rest of the Swallow Mk3 range having been corrected.

I think I'll cancel the £315 of Dapol pre-orders I have with various retailers until they up their game a bit. Hopefully Rapido's arrival on the N market will prompt them to stop being so lazy with their N range.

JB

[ScottyStitch]

I didn't think you were rude either, it's a pity if it came across that way. I apologise that it did. I was just trying to be helpful.

It would be a pity if you cancelled Dapol orders that were correct, as that would seem a bit self defeating.....

In either case, if the livery is wrong, and you don't want to accept it, I'd suggest digging out some cardboard and writing a stiff letter to Dapol.

Again, just a suggestion.

Happy modelling.

[StufromEGDL]

Hi Gang,

Saw a couple of the new issue IC DVTs at Glasgow Show today.
I can confirm that they ARE the same lighter shade as before.
Whether you buy or not is personal choice.

I have the earlier versions and they are fine.....not perfect, but fine!!

No sign of any yellow Network Rail version anywhere at the show.

Later,
Stu from EGDL.

[jivebunny]

I didn't think you were rude either, it's a pity if it came across that way. I apologise that it did. I was just trying to be helpful.

It would be a pity if you cancelled Dapol orders that were correct, as that would seem a bit self defeating.....

In either case, if the livery is wrong, and you don't want to accept it, I'd suggest digging out some cardboard and writing a stiff letter to Dapol.

Again, just a suggestion.

Happy modelling.

Ok in that case I misinterpreted what you were trying to say, sorry.

The problem is that I have no reason to believe my other Dapol pre-orders will actually be correct, so it's not self-defeating in that it just means I'm not committing money to potentially junk products, opting instead to only buy  them once I've been able to see them and determine that they're not completely wrong. I think we all expected the DVT to be correct, but all the evidence so far points to it being a simple re-issue of the old model with just a different number, despite the massive wait and a further six-month delay on top of that. On that basis, it would be a bit naive of me to expect my re-issued HST to match the rest of the current Mk3 range, or my two 142s to be up to an acceptable standard.

I suppose those of us who aren't happy could just ship our DVTs to Dapol and request that they be brought up to standard. If they receive enough they may actually do something about it, although with their track record of trying to keep customers happy I'd imagine they'll just end up being returned to sender.

Hi Gang,

Saw a couple of the new issue IC DVTs at Glasgow Show today.
I can confirm that they ARE the same lighter shade as before.
Whether you buy or not is personal choice.

I have the earlier versions and they are fine.....not perfect, but fine!!

No sign of any yellow Network Rail version anywhere at the show.

Later,
Stu from EGDL.

Well, I think that settles it then. Thanks Stu!

I also have the previous version of the IC DVT and whilst the physical model itself is fine and the DVT looks acceptable on its own, it's most definitely not fine from a modelling perspective when you see it coupled up to the current Mk3s. As I said earlier they were ok with the first batch of IC Mk3s since they were also in the wrong colours.

I've dropped Rails an e-mail to cancel my Dapol pre-orders.

JB

[NeMo]

Am I wrong in imagining a bit of judicious weathering wouldn't even out the shades a bit? Surely, if you're really bothered by fine details, then you won't be running these coaches un-weathered anyway -- what would be even less prototypical than a shiny bit of railway hardware!

Few of my BR blue diesel models seem to be the same colour. Some are more greenish than others, some are lighter, and some are darker. But that's exactly how I recall the real locomotives looking too. For sure not mint condition like that, but by the time the sunshine had bleached them and the grime had coated them, they were all different shades of banger blue.

The Dapol Mk3 coaches and trailer look like pretty decent models, especially compared to the older Farish ones. So can't you even out any slight differences in colour with a magic wave of an airbrush stoked up with thinned Humbrol Metal Cote #27004?

Cheers, NeMo

[Dr Al]

The Dapol Mk3 coaches and trailer look like pretty decent models, especially compared to the older Farish ones. So can't you even out any slight differences in colour with a magic wave of an airbrush stoked up with thinned Humbrol Metal Cote #27004?

I doubt it - it's a huge difference - IMHO the only solution is to repaint that band and the roof - do-able but a fair masking job.

Cheers,
Alan

[scruff]

I'm the same as you JB, waited ages thinking we would get a matching rake of coaches only to find out the new one has the same colour problems as the initial batch.
The original ones only match the 3 early release Loco hauled coaches so to get a matching 8 car set is impossible.
The later release Darker loco hauled coaches have been around a while, 3 x SO, buffet and 2x FO which need a matching DVT.
I'm disappointed that Dapol have released the DVT like this but it isn't the end of the world.
The early release coaches are quite close to Executive dark grey so I'm considering redoing them as Executive livery and changing the logo's on the "Intercity125 Executive livery loco hauled" coaches to the swallow italic lettering, which will probably be easier than correcting them!
As regards the DVT, I've got the 2 original ones which I will continue to run with Test Car 10.
Hopefully 2 weeks and Farish will announce an Intercity livery Mk1 BG.
Cheers
Mark

[ASFC]

My IC DVT has just arrived-I am disappointed at the livery-but for different reasons to the above.

The different shade of grey can be lived with-as can the roof, there is enough evidence floating around the net to say that these did vary in shades of colour (depending on light and weather).

However  the change in beige is very noticeable!!

[Luke Piewalker]

Mine has arrived. No colour comparisons yet, but there is a distinct lack of detailing parts...

Lovely instructions telling me how to fit the parts... just no parts... 

[Adam1701D]

Playing devils advocate here,bremember that the DVTs were built in 1988 and would not have been an exact match to much of the mk3 stock of the day.

They were also built to the international Stock body profile, which also didn't match the older coaches.

Dapol always seem to struggle with 1980s liveries. The first run of the DVT was a very odd shade.

[scruff]

Playing devils advocate here,bremember that the DVTs were built in 1988 and would not have been an exact match to much of the mk3 stock of the day.

They were also built to the international Stock body profile, which also didn't match the older coaches.

Dapol always seem to struggle with 1980s liveries. The first run of the DVT was a very odd shade.

The DVT's were released in the same colours as the class 90's and coaching stock was painted to match eventually as it was reliveried from executive livery.
Upper bodyside should be Falcon grey and the beige part of the lower bodyside should be Executive light grey on the DVT.
The only differences between Executive and Swallow livery should be the upper bodyside, red stripe which was more orangey on later executive and Swallow livery and the lettering which was standard rail alphabet as per Blue/Grey but in black on Executive livery.
All I wanted was a matching rake of coaches! :'(
Cheers
Mark

[jivebunny]

Playing devils advocate here,bremember that the DVTs were built in 1988 and would not have been an exact match to much of the mk3 stock of the day.

As has been said mutliple times, the DVTs were outshopped in Swallow livery. They therefore matched everything else that was in Swallow livery - 90s, 86s, 87s, 31s, 37s, 47s, that beast of an 89, the Mk4 sets and of course, the Mk3s. The same should therefore logically apply to a model representing it. I don't think there are any complaints about the body profile, it was indeed a different profile to the Mk3 and Dapol seem to have got that right. It's just getting the main colours right that they seem to struggle with.

Sadly the NWR DVT doesn't have the measuring equipment......

Another great model then. Maybe the next batch of buffer-fitted 43s won't actually have buffers, it's not as if they're a prominent feature... 

JB