O and K JHA hoppers from Dapol

bluedepot · September 12, 2021, 01:53:46 PM

hi everyone

not mentioned here yet i don't think.

dapol are making yeoman o and k jha hoppers
in n.

i picked up the leaflet yesterday.

they come in original yeoman (more silver less blue) and revised yeoman (a bigger blue stripe) and inner and outer wagons.

looking foreard to these.

assembling a full rake is very expensive these days, no matter what wagon you opt for.... I'll probably just get enough for a split portion of a train... (so about 12).

anyway they look very attractive wagons from what ive seen of the oo versions.

what locos other than 59s would have regularly (or fairly regularly) hauled them on introduction to mid 90s?

cheers

tim

Bob G · September 12, 2021, 02:34:04 PM

Hi Tim

I had not seen or heard of that development either - and TBH I had guessed that the JHA might have been Revolution's proposed wagon (certainly more in keeping with their modern image moniker than all steel K type Pullmans - which I actually want!!!).

Big shame is these JHAs were introduced 1989. I'm already stretching my era to get 59001 which was introduced in 1986, so I'm going to have to research what they would have been hauling when introduced in 1986. Quite probably the PTA bogie tipplers that I once had and sold on. Back to the NGS if I want a rake of these, I guess, as I think these ex TPM models are now owned by the NGS, IIRC.

EDIT: OK I have found 59s hauling the earlier aluminium design Procor PHA hoppers (which look similar to the O&K ones but were scrapped when the O&K ones replaced them), PTA bogie tipplers, and Farish PGAs (I already have a rake of these for my Westerns and 56s to haul). So I'm OK to sit back and wait to see what Dapol does produce (and hope for a more realistic PGA from someone else).

Bob

njee20 · September 12, 2021, 04:07:53 PM

Dapol do these in OO, so were virtually a dead cert to do them in N. The ARC/Hanson Powell-Duffryn JHA is a more obvious choice for Revolution.

Haulage in the early days was consistently by 59, they were privately owned after all. That said I've seen 60s and pairs of 37s on them. As well as a pair of 9Fs (!) for Yeoman's anniversary celebration.

These days they get mixed in with various other hopper wagons including HOAs, so you don't need a full rake of 40 for prototypical reality!

Im looking forward to them, the real thing has got real presence!

bluedepot · September 12, 2021, 05:10:21 PM

hi bob and njee

i cant decide on whether to buy these or wait for accurascale to shrink their pta wagons... which is bound to happen with revolution making the 59s.

i'll wait and see what gets announced before i pre order anything...

cheers

tim

Bob G · September 12, 2021, 05:31:53 PM

Quote from: bluedepot on September 12, 2021, 05:10:21 PM
hi bob and njee

i cant decide on whether to buy these or wait for accurascale to shrink their pta wagons... which is bound to happen with revolution making the 59s.

i'll wait and see what gets announced before i pre order anything...

cheers

tim

You do of course have to wait for these JHAs to enter Dapol's development "Funnel", so you could be waiting a long time

Bob

njee20 · September 12, 2021, 05:37:36 PM

Yes given Accurascale and Revolution share research I certainly wouldn't bet against the PTAs, but i also doubt they'll be imminent. If nothing else Revolution are good at not cannibalising their market, and I'd argue the current EALNOS is probably the current focus for box wagons (albeit a different era).

I suspect you've got a couple of years to decide either way!

I have no need, but may still succumb!

steadfast · September 15, 2021, 12:18:24 PM

Blatant plug - there's an article in current DEMU Update (issue 96) by me covering the operation of the the O&K hoppers. They regularly run mixed with other types of wagon (especially on the multi portion jumbos to and from Acton) and have had at least 37, 47, 56, 58, 59, 60, 66 and (for press trials) 70s as hauling locos, so a wide variety of traction.

Jo

njee20 · September 15, 2021, 04:01:08 PM

Saw that, Jo. It's a good article, Even if they spelt your name wrong

I see these have gone on pre-order, £34 each from the box shifters. A big jump up from the HIAs (the last modern wagon we saw from them?), but still firmly in line with Farish HKAs etc.

steadfast · September 16, 2021, 04:34:06 PM

Cheers Nick, yeah I noticed that.
I may do some others covering other wagon types if I can find the time, especially if they coincide with RTR releases.

Jo

steadfast · October 04, 2021, 11:25:45 AM

I've bought one of the 4mm Dapol JHAs, to measure up to produce decals for. A friend and I noticed that there is a discrepancy between the axlebox and the axle location. Once you spot it, it looks worse every time you see it.
I've put a post on the Dapol forum (tagging Andy and Joel) here: https://digest.dapol.co.uk/forum/main-forum/freight-stock/container-stock/jha-o-k-aggregate-hopper/project-managers-blog-au/7877-jha-o-k-improved-cad-views?p=9731#post9731 highlighting it in the hope that it could be corrected on the N model, as the CAD put out by them this far features the same error on the N model.
There's been no reply from Dapol (not even a like or a "thanks for noticing but it's too late") or whatever.
Looking at the design and comparing it to other N scale wagons, it's a compromise they didn't need to make! I hope they have taken it on board, but not going to hold my breath.
Any other views on the matter or is expecting axles to line up with axleboxes being fussy?

Jo

njee20 · October 04, 2021, 11:44:16 AM

Mmm, there's a decent looking side on photo on the Hatton's site, which doesn't look too bad. Have you got a photo? That would be pretty disappointing; but then I guess they're fighting physics, with oversized flanges the alternative may have been an overwide gap between bogie and body, which would possibly yield an overscale ride height.

Likely to be worse in N though. I had the same problem with my JIAs, creating cutouts for the flanges in the floor doesn't leave much thickness.

steadfast · October 04, 2021, 01:56:45 PM

I've done a few photos, all a bit clunky on the phone switching tabs to copy and past BB code!

The axle pinpoint is roughly level with the bottom edge of the axlebox. The side on view of the bogie shows curve of the wheel turning in to return to the top below the axlebox, confirming the height of the pinpoint.

The floor is flat, even allowing for the close coupler for the buckeye, there's plenty of material and the floor could've been 1mm higher. The flanges don't come close to hitting the sides of the wagon at maximum rotation, so that wouldn't be the cause. The Dapol Ferry Wagon and KIA / IHA steel carrier have a similar design of bogie and have the flanges allowed for by raising the floor behind the solebars of the wagon. The Farish BDA has curved arcs moulded in the floor to allow for the flanges.
The more I look at the N CAD, perhaps the axles line up with the axleboxes, but due to the angles of the CAD and perspective etc, it's difficult to tell. If they actually do align, it'd be nice for Dapol to have responded on their digest!

Jo

njee20 · October 04, 2021, 02:20:16 PM

Mmm, that's not good, particularly the upside down view. Reminiscent of the solebar cutouts in the N gauge 59 CADs - regression in the name of compatibility, which just isn't needed!

red_death · October 04, 2021, 03:01:10 PM

I had a look at a friend's JHAs over the weekend and the problem is that once you've seen it I'm not sure you can un-see it! It doesn't look great as it looks odd (and as Jo says it seems to be unnecessary).

Steven B · October 04, 2021, 04:53:57 PM

Are the bogies the same as on the ferry-vans?

If they are, it'll be interesting to see if Dapol do a copy and paste, or if they've re-drawn them (potentially with the error).

Steven B.