Making Decals and needing a new printer

njee20 · June 18, 2023, 12:45:19 PM

Why did you identify those three models? This feels like you've not actually read any of the replies...?

I'd definitely go laser. Inkjet printers are just too unreliable unless you're going to be using it constantly, and you have the hassle of sealing decals. If you've got one, great, but not what I'd buy for the job.

I've been really happy with my HP one, despite buying it cheap and second hand. I actually did it backward and bought the Ghost White Toner first, so that dictated the printer choice, but I'd definitely recommend HP.

What sort of detail do you actuslly need? I can print legible TOPS panels in 2mm, but it is discernible they're not quite as fine as Railtec et al.

The only issue I've had is occasionally decals totally smudge, like they've not been adequately fused, but I've never worked out why.

Doc Pye · June 18, 2023, 01:16:21 PM

QuoteWhy did you identify those three models? This feels like you've not actually read any of the replies...?

Well I actually read a bunch of printer reviews, and for art graphics the two Canon ones were very top of the list (in my price range).

As for the Lexmark laser, I honestly didn't know they weren't all that good, as my Lexmark inkjet was fine up until recently....so I thought Lexmark would be okay.

Always happy to take on as much info as possible. So please keep sharing your experiences

NScaleNotes · June 18, 2023, 04:06:25 PM

Quote from: Lurch on June 18, 2023, 11:21:47 AM
Quote from: Doc Pye on June 18, 2023, 12:18:53 AM
So are there any good printers out there?

Personally I would always stick to laser printers... ...and generally needs less maintenance/doesn't "dry up".

Funnily enough when I worked in IT one of the department heads went and bought their department it's own top of the line colour laser printer without consulting the IT department first. The thing was constantly breaking down and/or producing rubbish prints. When we did some digging it turned out that even though it was a desktop sized printer it was basically designed to be running constantly in environments churning out hundreds if not thousands of colour pages a day; the problems were being caused by infrequent short prints runs and the fuser not being worked hard/long enough if I remember correctly!

I know it's not relevant here but there's some amazing top-end colour lasers out there now that'd be great for decals (I'd looking into buying one for the purpose of starting a decal printing business) but I wonder if they'd have the same problem if you did stick them in a lower use environment.

Alcazar · June 18, 2023, 06:09:47 PM

I decided to do my own on my HP inkjet and bought the paper and sealing spray from Print4Life. I was planning to do some last week, but could not find my guillotine to cut down to A6. Never thought about the colour cartridge drying out, so I guess I should do a couple of trial runs on ordinary paper first. I'll let you know the results when I've done it.

Peter

Doc Pye · June 19, 2023, 11:49:46 PM

So after talking to some others, I was recommended to look at Epson printers.

I saw this one: Epson WorkForce WF-7830

Does anyone have experience with Epson printers that they would kindly share?

njee20 · June 20, 2023, 07:34:34 PM

An A3 inkjet feels like a somewhat illogical choice for your intended use and all the feedback you've had...

Why was it recommended to you, and by whom? Sounds like they're the people to ask. It's certainly not what I'd buy.

F2Andy · June 20, 2023, 07:37:15 PM

I have an Epson XP-215 that I bought several years ago now. I use it mostly for decals, and it works fine. Despite infrequent use, it has not dried out. It does nag if you do not use original carts though.

I do print on paper first to check everything is okay first, both with the printer and with my designs.

Doc Pye · June 20, 2023, 08:01:07 PM

QuoteAn A3 inkjet feels like a somewhat illogical choice for your intended use and all the feedback you've had...

Why was it recommended to you, and by whom?

Not really, as it gives me a better scanning ability with A3.

As for printing, 4 separate cartridges look to be a good approach...although expensive.

In terms of 'whom'....just me looking at what 'artists' use to recreate prints, as they are looking for the best possible resolution...like me.

So the other choice was a Canon PIXMA iX6850....but then others comments here put me off a bit about this 'sponge' device eventually making the printer useless. The resolution on this printer does seem good at 9600 x 2400 dpi. That said, it does seem to be rather limited to only doing this on glossy photo paper (at least from the many YT reviews I have watched).

So any thoughts on the Epson printers?

There isn't a lot of choice out there really. I am definitely not getting any more HP printers, as they use to be great but lack of quality control has made them useless.

Doc Pye · June 20, 2023, 08:15:41 PM

PS Can someone also clarify to me the pros and cons of 'pigment inks' vs 'dye inks'....notably for decal printing? I have searched but there is a bit of conflicting info out there....

njee20 · June 20, 2023, 08:21:42 PM

That's an insane resolution. Definitely agree with separate cartridges, but I still wouldn't get inkjet. But that's been said repeatedly, so not sure it bears repeating!

Doc Pye · June 20, 2023, 08:31:10 PM

I hear what your saying njee20 but from my searches they all suggest inkjets over laser. I also had a friend bring up the point that a laser doesn't produce as vivid colors and the thermal heat on the decal paper is sometimes problematic.

My only experience making decals is via my Lexmark Inkjet....and as I said at the start of this thread, it is dying (as all printers eventually do!).

ntpntpntp · June 20, 2023, 08:37:35 PM

Quote from: Doc Pye on June 20, 2023, 08:15:41 PM
PS Can someone also clarify to me the pros and cons of 'pigment inks' vs 'dye inks'....notably for decal printing?

I would assume pigment inks would be better for decals simply because you're printing on top of a thin carrier film which doesn't absorb dyes in the same way as paper does? Again harking back to my old Microdry printer which is effectively ~~pigments~~ dye sublimation applied to the surface of the film.

F2Andy · June 20, 2023, 09:16:02 PM

Quote from: Doc Pye on June 20, 2023, 08:31:10 PM
I hear what your saying njee20 but from my searches they all suggest inkjets over laser. I also had a friend bring up the point that a laser doesn't produce as vivid colors and the thermal heat on the decal paper is sometimes problematic.

I think you need to get decal "paper" specific to either inkjet or laser for that reason. But if it is designed for laser, I am pretty sure it will be suitable for laser.

njee20 · June 20, 2023, 10:01:43 PM

Quote from: Doc Pye on June 20, 2023, 08:31:10 PM
I hear what your saying njee20 but from my searches they all suggest inkjets over laser. I also had a friend bring up the point that a laser doesn't produce as vivid colors and the thermal heat on the decal paper is sometimes problematic.

My only experience making decals is via my Lexmark Inkjet....and as I said at the start of this thread, it is dying (as all printers eventually do!).

Except for the people on this thread who have recommended lasers you mean...? I've no dog in the fight, so you do whatever you think is right. You buy laser-specific decal paper, so that's a non-issue. Yes if you use inkjet stuff then it can melt to the fuser and cause all sorts of issues (I believe, I've never tried it, because that would be daft!). Because they don't need sealing the decals are thinner than inkjet printed ones, and respond better to things like Microsol/Microset. I get that dot dithering can be an issue, but I've not really experienced it across a myriad of different decals. I can see the appeal behind a finer resolution, definitely. I do notice that I can't print as small and retain legibility, it's good enough for me, but definitely the one thing I'd improve.

Just my £0.02 from having produced 4-500 wagons worth of decals. Some photos here of cruel close ups. These are OO gauge, as those are the only ones I've got to hand! Hoping this shared album link works, CBA to go through the rigmarole of adding them in line here!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uAKDzpck36zBDrtLA

Apologies I feel a bit beligerent, just find it a bit odd that you keep asking for advice on specific machines that no one has mentioned, but ignoring what mulitple people are saying. If you're being told that certain printers are good then those are the people to ask why, surely? Coming here to ask people making other recommendations feels a bit strange.

I suspect there are no really 'bad' printers out there, insofar as on day one they'll all give good results. How they last from there will vary, probably by individual unit as well as usage etc. Some interesting reading here, albeit somewhat inconclusive, about the Canon's '9600 DPI': https://graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions/53851/how-can-a-print-have-a-resolution-of-9600-x-2400-dpi.

acook · June 20, 2023, 10:52:26 PM

I have a Canon MG3650, £30 from argos, replaced the MG2650 £20 from Wilko.
Yes it has a sponge.
I have yet to fill a sponge up. If you do the other side of 100 pages a week for a few years you might.
Much more likely is wearing/drying out of the head.
Mine does 1200 x 600, and I can get 0.2 mm legiblle height on white decal paper.
As far as "only on White glossy photo paper" just tell it that is what you are using and put injet decal paper in it.
It will dump a bundle of ink on it, nice & vibrant, just be careful and give it a couple of hours to dry, then spray, jobs a good 'un.
As ever, it works for me, I use it for Lining.
Your mileage may vary.
Get a cheap one, experiment with decal papers, they are not all created equally.

Alan