James May’s big trouble in model Britain, Bbc4, 9pm

[Railwaygun]

Simon's not running a cottage industry in a shed and able to be content with making a steady five figures a year. The company's been losing millions. The survival of the iconic brands, and quite a few people's jobs, are depending on his flair and enthusiasm.

If he can make a company of that size nimble enough to seize quick opportunities, I wouldn't criticise him. His increasing numbers of competitors will pounce on opportunities they can spot, and if even he can't make Hornby, Airfix etc work, it could well go bust.

Business is business. Hattons, and Rails of Sheffield from Sheffield, are now manufacturers too, and Simon hasn't got a widespread retailing business to fall back on.

He seems to know what sells, and he has to get those profits in, fast.

They lost £30m in 5 yrs!!

[Bob G]

They lost £30m in 5 yrs!!

He didnt lose that money. He's not been there for 4 years. There was new management that came in, moved the business to Sandwich that is implicated in the wrecking of Hornby. Not that I know all the history, but there is plenty of scope for a new volume in the history books on Hornby.

Bob

[nookfield]

Business is business. Hattons, and Rails of Sheffield from Sheffield, are now manufacturers too, and Simon hasn't got a widespread retailing business to fall back on.

Rails Of Sheffield are not a manufacturer, they just commission other manufactures to make exclusive items for them.

Crushing the opposition maybe good for Hornby, but it will not be good for railway modellers

[Garyf]

He seems to know what sells, and he has to get those profits in, fast.

Without being inside of he industry it's hard to know but I suspect Hattons and Rails have been telling the manufacturers what customers are asking for and these requests have been ignored until the retailers decided to commission the models their customers want. I don't think he knows what sells except by listening to the retailers and his choice of new products is no more than an attempt to slap down the upstarts who after years of asking for new products decided make it happen.

[guest311]

just my view, but if you want a cl66 in pink, with sky blue roof and purple ends, and no one lists one, if you ask the manufacturer to produce this as a commission for you, I'd say that is fair.

if you decide to produce models in direct competition with the manufacturer, then I'd say you were now a competitor and if you get 'punished' it's your fault.

this is what seems to be happening with Hattons and Bachmann.

not a real worry to us, as Hattons don't seem interested in producing in N

[RailGooner]

Crushing the opposition would not be good for Hornby. It's generally accepted that competition breeds innovation, innovation leads to profit.

Hattons and Rails indeed cited Hornby's developmental stasis, during the five years of loss - the Sandwich Years - as their reason for commissioning the manufacturing* of new railway models. Were they motivated by a desire to see the poor uninspired railway modeller provided with better higher fidelity models or was that a means of satisfying their true desire - greater profits? A bit of both but mostly the latter IMHO. Hattons sell plastic aviation themed model kits. Hornby manufacture plastic aviation themed model kits, a branch of their business which had also been in stasis during the Sandwich Years. Why weren't Hattons riding to the rescue of the poor uninspired aircraft modeller?

I don't feel sorry for any of the players here, because I don't believe any of them were particularly damaged. Each was trying to gain a limited advantage over the others - just as most businesses in any common market do. Hattons and Rails will not have lost money here. They probably profited less than they had hoped and egos will have taken a knock. But they'll bounce back, driven by those egos and the desire for profit. And the OO railway modeller benefited by having a greater choice of Terriers and 66s.

* Yes that is literally what Rails and Hattons are doing rather than manufacturing themselves, but I can accept them being called simply manufacturers in the context of this discussion.

[Bob G]

not a real worry to us, as Hattons don't seem interested in producing in N

Apart from a Beyer Garrett, that is?
https://www.hattons.co.uk/Ngarratt

Bob

[Snowwolflair]

I don't think we should overlook the relationship of Rails and Hattons to the old management, who were either complicit or failed to act when Hattons and Rails made their move.

As far as i'm concerned the Rails Terrier is a Dapol product sponsored by Rails and is actually an inter manufacturer commercial pitch at its heart.  Dapol would not build without the guaranteed up front sales to Rails, and you can bet it will become a Dapol standard model in the future.   

Hatton's however is promoting a new source, and is a commercial threat that cannot be ignored and resulted in the new Hornby low cost 66's.  If you look at the video it's the Hattons man that nearly looses the place as its going to hurt him,  where as the Sheffield man was not really surprised (me thought he protested too much rather than show real anger).

Hettons have clearly funded all of the class 66 where Rails have only contributed for the Terrier.

In N we have already several shop sponsored re-liveried models from Dapol and Farish.  Revolution and others are spearheading a possible quadrupling in the number of manufacturing sources from which they are the marketing agent for a significant part.

[Buffin]

He didnt lose that money.

We didn't say he did. The company did and it's the company that Simon (and Lynton Davies, who we didn't see much of but is obviously key) have to rescue.

[Bob G]

He didnt lose that money.

We didn't say he did. The company did and it's the company that Simon (and Lynton Davies, who we didn't see much of but is obviously key) have to rescue.

That's cleared that up then. Wish people would be clear when they are talking about Simon Kohler and then drop in conversation that they (implying he was one of them) lost £30m.
I'd be cheesed off if I lost even £1m of my own money

Bob

[nookfield]

Crushing the opposition would not be good for Hornby. It's generally accepted that competition breeds innovation, innovation leads to profit.

In a lot of business that is true, but in a limited market such as Model Railways then if you don't have an opposition then the standards remain the same and profit margins can increase.

[Railwaygun]

Simon's not running a cottage industry in a shed and able to be content with making a steady five figures a year. The company's been losing millions. The survival of the iconic brands, and quite a few people's jobs, are depending on his flair and enthusiasm.

If he can make a company of that size nimble enough to seize quick opportunities, I wouldn't criticise him. His increasing numbers of competitors will pounce on opportunities they can spot, and if even he can't make Hornby, Airfix etc work, it could well go bust.

Business is business. Hattons, and Rails of Sheffield from Sheffield, are now manufacturers too, and Simon hasn't got a widespread retailing business to fall back on.

He seems to know what sells, and he has to get those profits in, fast.

They lost £30m in 5 yrs!!

They ( Old Hornby) lost £30m !

[Bob G]

And that is despite their "design clever" philosophy which was intended to reduce the number of parts in a single model, to reduce labour costs.

Bob