N Gauge Forum

Graham Farish Catalogue 2019



Bachmann Europe Plc has today launched its 2019 Graham Farish catalogue at a trade event held in London. The Graham Farish catalogue covers British outline N Scale models. This year, several models will be upgraded to include provision for the fitting of Sound, allowing us to increase the number of SOUND FITTED models following the overwhelming popularity of the Castle Class Steam Locomotive and Class 40 Diesel Locomotive – the first Graham Farish locomotives to be offered with this feature. SOUND FITTED models will now feature the suffix 'SF' on their item number which will gradually replace the 'DS' suffix that was previously used.

New tooling is being developed for the WD 40T 'Parrot' Wagon and HKA Bogie Hopper Wagon to further expand our extensive range of wagons. Details of these developments, and a full listing of new items, can be found below.



NEW TOOLING

N SCALE WAGONS NEW TOOLING


WD 40T 'PARROT' BOGIE WAGON

250 wagons were constructed in 1917 to the standard LNWR 40 ton 'Parrot' bogie trolley design for the War Department – for use at home and by the French Railways during the First World War. After the war 25 of these were passed over to the LNWR to join the original 'Parrot' wagons and a further 140 were sold to the Midland Railway, plus some to the Caledonian Railway. The remainder of the wagons were either left in France or retained for use by the British Military. At the time of the Grouping in 1923, all the wagons in railway company ownership became part of the LMS fleet. By the Second World War the original 40t 'Parrot' wagons were requisitioned by the War Department for further military use.

373-350 WD 40T 'Parrot' Bogie Wagon WD Grey

373-351 WD 40T 'Parrot' Bogie Wagon LMS Grey



NEW TOOLING – HKA BOGIE HOPPER WAGON

In the early 1990s, National Power was developing plans to run its own coal trains to Drax Power Station. Trials had taken place during the autumn of 1992 using Tiphook KPA bogie hopper wagons. To realise its plans, National Power ordered five locomotives along with a batch of 85 hopper wagons. The first wagons were delivered in May 1995 and they soon received the TOPS code JMA. In 1998 National Power sold its rail operations to national freight operator EWS.

Whilst much of the fleet was stored out of service, in early-2009, those JMAs that were still in service were fitted with new bogies, receiving the TOPS code HKA. As is often the case with freight stock, the wagons were not repainted and many still carried National Power branding. In more recent years, DB Schenker, faced with a shortage of hopper wagons, began a programme to refurbish several of the JMAs that were previously in storage. New bogies have been fitted and the wagons subsequently reclassified as HKAs and several have now been outshopped in the vibrant DB Schenker red livery.

The real wagons can be defined as inners (without buffers) and outers (with buffers) and the Graham Farish models will be supplied with plug-in buffers in the accessory pack, allowing consumers to configure their models to meet their own requirements.

373-811 HKA Bogie Hopper 'National Power' Blue - weathered
373-812 HKA Bogie Hopper Debranded 'National Power' Blue - weathered
373-813 HKA Bogie Hopper DB Schenker


SOUND UPGRADES FOR EXISTING MODELS

2019 sees three locomotives upgraded to include provision for the fitting of Sound, with SOUND FITTED versions of each included in the 2019 range. In addition, SOUND FITTED versions of the Class 101 and Class 150 DMUs will also be available for the first time.

All SOUND FITTED models offer a range of synchronized sounds on analogue (DC) control, so modellers can enjoy the added dimension that Sound brings whether they use analogue or DCC to operate their layout.


CLASS 5MT – upgraded to include provision for sound and a SOUND FITTED option. Models which are not SOUND FITTED will be factory-fitted with a speaker for ease of sound conversion.

372-727A BR Standard 5MT with BR1B Tender 73109 BR Lined Black (Early Emblem)
372-728SF BR Standard 5MT with BR1 Tender 73049 BR Lined Green (Late Crest) – SOUND FITTED
372-729 BR Standard 5MT with BR1 Tender 73050 BR Lined Black (Late Crest) - weathered


CLASS 14 – upgraded to include provision for sound and a SOUND FITTED option. Models which are not SOUND FITTED will be factory-fitted with a speaker for ease of sound conversion.

372-950A Class 14 D9522 BR Green (Wasp Stripes)
372-950ASF Class 14 D9522 BR Green (Wasp Stripes) – SOUND FITTED
372-954 Class 14 D2/9531 NCB British Oak Orange & Black
372-955 Class 14 D9523 BR Maroon (Wasp Stripes)



CLASS 60 – upgraded to include provision for sound and a SOUND FITTED option. Models which are not SOUND FITTED will be factory-fitted with a speaker for ease of sound conversion.

371-351A Class 60 60044 'Ailsa Craig' Mainline Freight
371-358A Class 60 60096 Colas Rail Freight
371-358ASF Class 60 60096 Colas Rail Freight – SOUND FITTED
371-359 Class 60 60100 'Midland Railway - Butterley' DB Cargo
371-360 Class 60 60095 GBRf



CLASS 101 – first release of a SOUND FITTED Class 101 DMU.

371-506SF Class 101 2-Car DMU BR Blue & Grey – SOUND FITTED



CLASS 150 – first release of a SOUND FITTED Class 150 DMU.

371-334SF Class 150/2 2-Car DMU 150236 Arriva Trains Wales (Revised) – SOUND FITTED



NEW RELEASES OF EXISTING TOOLING

N Scale Steam Locomotives

371-986A GWR 64XX Pannier Tank 6422 BR Black (Early Emblem)
372-400A LNER J39 With Stepped Tender 4761 LNER Black (LNER Original)
372-401A LNER J39 With Group Standard 4200 Gallon Tender 64897 BR Black (Early Emblem)
372-403A LNER J39 With Stepped Tender 64739 BR Black (Late Crest)
372-754 LMS Fairburn Tank 2278 LMS Black (Revised) - weathered
372-755 LMS Fairburn Tank 42062 BR Lined Black (Late Crest)
372-063 MR 4F with Fowler Tender 4057 LMS Black (Original)
372-064 MR 4F with Fowler Tender 43892 BR Black (British Railways)
372-065 MR 4F With Fowler Tender 43931 BR Black (Late Crest) - weathered
372-936 SE&CR N Class 1860 SR Black (Sunshine) N Scale Diesel & Electric
371-013 Class 08 13287 BR Green (Early Emblem)
371-015D Class 08 08818 BR Blue - weathered
372-981 Class 24/0 D5100 BR Green (Small Yellow Panels)
372-979A Class 24/0 D5053 BR Two-Tone Green (Small Yellow Panels) - weathered
372-975A Class 24/0 24064 BR Blue
371-453A Class 37/0 Centre Headcode D6984 BR Green (Small Yellow Panels)
371-465A Class 37/0 Centre Headcode 37284 BR Blue
371-466A Class 37/0 Split Headcode 37046 BR Engineers Grey & Yellow
371-472 Class 37/0 Centre Headcode 37242 Mainline Freight - weathered
371-164 Class 37/4 Refurbished 37428 'David Lloyd George' BR Railfreight Petroleum Sector
371-173 Class 37/5 Refurbished 37521 Colas Rail Freight
371-172 Class 37/5 Refurbished 37669 WCRC Maroon
371-180A Class 40 Disc Headcode D248 BR Green (Late Crest)
371-180ASF Class 40 Disc Headcode D248 BR Green (Late Crest) – SOUND FITTED
371-185 Class 40 Split Headcode D338 BR Green (Small Yellow Panels)
371-184 Class 40 Disc Headcode 40012 BR Blue
371-606 Class 42 'Warship' D820 'Grenville' BR Green (Late Crest)
371-600B Class 42 'Warship' D809 'Champion' BR Maroon (Small Yellow Panels)
371-601B Class 42 'Warship' 812 'The Royal Naval Reserve 1859-1959' BR Blue
371-829 Class 47/4 47435 BR Blue
372-250 Class 47/4 47436 BR Blue (Large Logo)
372-262 Class 47/7 47745 'Royal London Society For The Blind' Rail Express Systems
372-262SF Class 47/7 47745 'Royal London Society For The Blind' Rail Express Systems – SOUND FITTED
371-289 Class 55 'Deltic' D9001 'St. Paddy' BR Two-Tone Green (Full Yellow Ends) - weathered
371-661 Class 57/3 57305 'Northern Princess' DRS Northern Belle
371-388 Class 66/4 66413 Freightliner G&W
371-389 Class 66/7 66789 'British Rail 1948-1997' GBRf BR Blue (Large Logo)
371-508 Class 101 2-Car DMU BR Green (Speed Whiskers)
371-506 Class 101 2-Car DMU BR Blue & Grey
371-333 Class 150/1 2-Car DMU 150135 BR Provincial (Original)
371-334 Class 150/2 2-Car DMU 150236 Arriva Trains Wales (Revised)
371-335 Class 150/2 2-Car DMU 150275 Northern 371-679 Class 220 4-Car DEMU 220009 Arriva Cross Country
371-680 Class 220 4-Car DEMU 220018 'Dorset Voyager' Virgin Trains (Revised)



N Scale Coaches

374-885A LMS Stanier 50ft Full Brake LMS Crimson Lake
374-418 SR PLV Passenger Luggage Van SR Maunsell Green
374-038A BR Mk1 BG Brake Gangwayed BR (WR) Chocolate & Cream
374-123 BR Mk1 RU Restaurant Unclassified BR (WR) Chocolate & Cream
374-011C BR Mk1 TSO Tourist Second Open BR (SR) Green
374-010E BR Mk1 TSO Tourist Second Open BR Crimson & Cream
374-815A BR Mk1 FO First Open BR Crimson & Cream
374-160A BR Mk1 FK First Corridor BR Crimson & Cream
374-271C BR Mk1 57ft 'Suburban' S Second BR Maroon
374-291C BR Mk1 57ft 'Suburban' SO Second Open BR Maroon
374-281C BR Mk1 57ft 'Suburban' Composite BR Maroon
374-310C BR Mk1 57ft 'Suburban' BS Brake Second BR Maroon
374-130C BR Mk1 GUV General Utility Van BR Maroon
374-164A BR Mk1 FK First Corridor BR Blue & Grey (Motorail)
374-013D BR Mk1 TSO Tourist Second Open BR Blue & Grey - weathered
374-062D BR Mk1 SK Second Corridor Blue & Grey - weathered
374-122A BR Mk1 RU Restaurant Unclassified BR Blue & Grey - weathered
374-137 BR Mk1 GUV General Utility Van BR Blue & Grey (Motorail)
374-188D BR Mk1 BSK Brake Second Corridor BR Blue & Grey - weathered
374-215 BR Mk1 Pullman FO First Open (Ex-Second Parlour) BR Blue & Grey
374-587 GWR Hawksworth Full Brake BR Blue - weathered
374-892 LMS Stanier 50ft Full Brake Tartan Arrow
374-632A SR Bogie B Luggage Van BR Blue - weathered
374-045 BR Mk1 BG Brake Gangwayed BR Blue (Newspapers) - weathered
374-680B BR Mk2A BSO Brake Second Open BR Blue & Grey - weathered
374-891 LMS Stanier 50ft Full Brake BR Blue & Grey
374-015A BR Mk1 TSO Tourist Second Open BR InterCity (Executive)
374-138 BR Mk1 GUV General Utility Van BR InterCity (Motorail)
374-712 BR Mk2A TSO Tourist Second Open BR Regional Railways
374-993 BR Mk1 TSO & BSK 2-Coach Pack BR West Highland Line Green & Cream
374-996 BR Mk2 TSO & Mk1 BG 2-Coach Pack BR ScotRail
374-995 BR 'Highlander' Coach Pack Mk2 TSO & Class 101 DTCL BR Highland Rail Green & Cream
374-044A BR Mk1 BG Brake Gangwayed Royal Mail Letters
374-139 BR Mk1 GUV General Utility Van Royal Mail Letters
374-644 BR Mk1 CCT Covered Carriage Truck BR RTC (Original)
374-419 SR CCT Covered Carriage Truck BR Departmental Olive Green
374-314 BR Mk1 57ft 'Suburban' BS Brake Second BR Departmental Yellow
374-089 BR Mk1 BCK Brake Composite Corridor Network Rail Yellow
374-040A BR Mk1 BG Brake Gangwayed Generator Van Network Rail Yellow
374-614 GWR Hawksworth Auto-Trailer BR (WR) Chocolate & Cream



N Scale Wagons

377-875A SR 25T 'Queen Mary' Brake Van SR Brown
377-475 5 Plank China Clay Wagon GWR Grey with Tarpaulin Cover - weathered
377-068 5 Plank Wagon Fixed End 'A. Butler & Co.' Black
377-092 7 Plank Wagon End Door 'Highley Mining Company Ltd.' Red
377-093 7 Plank Wagon End Door 'Tredegar' Grey
377-502B 3 Plank Wagon LMS Grey 377-310C LMS 20T Brake Van LMS Grey
377-750A MR 20T Brake Van LMS Grey - weathered
377-066 5 Plank Wagon Wooden Floor 'J. H. Rainbow' Red
377-094 7 Plank Wagon End Door 'Whitwick' Grey
377-126C 8 Plank Wagon End Door 'Ketton Cement' Red - weathered
377-208 8 Plank Wagon Coke Rails 'Stanton' Red
377-209 8 Plank Wagon Fixed End 'William Harrison'
377-987 LNER 12T Fruit Van Planked Ends LNER Bauxite
377-067 5 Plank Wagon Wooden Floor 'Devlin's Trawlers' Green
377-451C 16T Steel Slope-Sided Mineral Wagon Pressed Door MOT Bauxite
373-219 24T Iron Ore Hopper 'B.I.S.C. Iron Ore'
377-069 5 Plank 3-Wagon Pack BR Grey (Early) - weathered
377-078C 7 Plank Wagon End Door BR Grey (Early) - weathered
377-330 Conflat Wagon BR Bauxite (Early) With 'Pickfords' BD Container
377-328C Conflat Wagon BR Bauxite (Early) With BR Crimson BD Container - weathered
377-340B Conflat Wagon BR Bauxite (Early) With 2 BR White AF Containers - weathered
373-725D BR 10T Insulated Van BR White - weathered
373-701C BR 12T Ventilated Van Planked Sides BR Bauxite (Early) - weathered
377-227E BR 16T Steel Mineral Wagon with Top Flap Doors BR Grey (Early) - weathered
377-250E BR 16T Steel Mineral Wagon BR Grey (Early)
377-453 16T Steel Slope-Sided Mineral Wagon BR Grey (Early) – weathered
373-216A 24T Iron Ore Hopper BR Bauxite (Early) - weathered
373-218A 24T Iron Ore Hopper BR Grey (Early) - weathered
377-275C BR 27T Steel Tippler BR Grey (Early) 'Iron Ore'
377-526D BR 20T Brake Van BR Grey (Early)
377-852A SR 25T 'Pill Box' Brake Van BR Grey (Early)
377-301D LMS 20T Brake Van BR Grey (Early)
377-376B GWR 20T 'Toad' Brake Van BR Grey (Early)
373-926D 30T Bogie Bolster C BR Grey (Early)
377-342 Conflat Wagon BR Bauxite (Early) With 2 'Mac Fisheries' AF Containers
377-331 Conflat Wagon BR Bauxite (Early) With 'Door-To-Door' BD Container - weathered
373-727B BR 10T Insulated Van BR Ice Blue - weathered
373-728 BR 10T Insulated Ale Van BR Bauxite (Early) - weathered
373-703B BR 12T Ventilated Van Planked Sides BR Bauxite (Late) - weathered
377-981A LNER 12T Ventilated Van Corrugated Steel Ends BR Bauxite (Late) - weathered
377-986A LNER 12T Fruit Van BR Bauxite (Late) - weathered
373-930 30T Bogie Bolster C BR Bauxite (Late) - weathered
377-876A SR 25T 'Queen Mary' Brake Van BR Bauxite (Late)
373-784 BR 45T TTA Tank Wagon 'Fina' Silver
377-343 BR Ex-Conflat Runner Wagon BR Yellow & Black Wasp Stripes
373-704 BR 12T Ventilated Van Planked Sides BR Departmental Olive Green - weathered
377-601C BR BDA Bogie Bolster BR Railfreight Red - weathered
373-507B BR HEA Hopper BR Railfreight Red & Grey - weathered
373-631 BR OBA Open Wagon High Ends BR Railfreight Red & Grey
373-601D BR VGA Van BR Railfreight Red (Speedlink)
377-530 BR 20T Brake Van BR Bauxite (TOPS) 'Air Piped' - weathered
373-782 BR 45T TTA Tank 'Ciba-Geigy' Blue
377-228 BR 16T Steel Mineral Wagon Top Flap Doors NCB Grey - weathered
377-878 SR 25T 'Queen Mary' Brake Van BR Departmental Olive Green
373-902D BR HAA Hopper BR Railfreight Coal Sector
373-783 BR 45T TTA Tank 'Charringtons' Black - weathered
377-730B BR ZAA 'Pike' Open Wagon BR Engineers Grey & Yellow - weathered
377-629 BR 12T Ventilated Van Plywood Doors BR Departmental Rail Stores
377-529A BR 20T Brake Van BR Engineers Grey & Yellow - weathered
377-369 FIA Intermodal Bogie Wagons With 'Maersk line' 45ft Containers
377-731A BR SPA Open Wagon Network Rail Yellow - weathered



SCENECRAFT N Scale Buildings & Structures

42-0018 Small Water Tower
42-0047 Corner Florist
42-0049 Church
42-0060 March West Signal Box
42-0071 Station Café
42-0078 Crossing Keeper's Cottage
42-0080 Beach Huts (x2)
42-0092 Motorail Car Loading Point
42-0095 Stone Booking Hall
42-036 Sectional Lineside Hut
42-081 Portable Offices
42-178 Traction Servicing Depot
42-243 Low Relief Lyons Corner House
42-259 Low Relief Office Block
42-265 Low Relief Block of flats
42-275 Low Relief Model Shop
42-288 Low Relief Urban Stone walling
42-548 Station Signage set
42-555 Stone Walls and Gates
42-572 Midland Water Crane (Platform Mounted)
42-587 Fibre Board Hut
42-590 Tall Retaining Walls
42-593 Concrete Bus Shelter
42-595 Sleeper Built Fencing (x4)



SCENECRAFT N Scale Figures

379-323 Modern Farming Figures
379-324 1940/50s Arable Farming Figures
379-326 1940/50s Livestock Farming Figures
379-327 Rural Tradesmen
379-328 1960/70s Urban Workers
379-329 1960/70s Tradesmen
379-330 1960/70s Lineside Workers

I'm actually pretty excited about this!

Sound fitted 60 is awesome, shall be getting a couple of those, and the DB one looks great.

HKAs are a good choice, surprised it's a new tooling when they're basically HHAs. I really hope they do the weathered National Power ones justice, they're not just "a bit dirty" in real life, they're absolutely shagged from 20 years without a lick of paint. One for Mercig to do a master I reckon a la various Dapol models. I'm hopeful as they're not doing an unweathered one. They're not appropriate for when National Power was contemporary, so they've only existed as HKAs whilst looking very work worn!

Re-run of the Voyager is a great shout, shame it's taken them so long to do it, and shame they're not doing XC at the same time. Wonder if it's the new Virgin 'red silk' livery, or just the new doors.

Shame no ROG 37, but at least that means I can keep doing my respray without feeling it's instantly pointless!

Edit: sorry, they are doing XC Voyagers, missed it because it wasn't on a separate line!

I couldn't be more underwhelmed, sorry :(

My wallet just breathed a sigh of relief.

A couple of us were discussing this very thing this morning. Pretty much as predicted...a couple of new wagons and reliveries. The new sound-fitted locos will I'm sure prove popular; and I note the re-release of the class 14.

Given the tribulations faced over the last year or two, I think this is an eminently sensible approach from Bachmann. Hopefully they will get the chance to catch up on the backlog.

Well, I'm buzzing !! Provincial 150/1, 37428 (good for renumbering to either 418 or 421) Reg Rail Mk2a TSO! Nice! I can't be bothered to respray another rake, so these will come in very handy. I'm sure the BSO will be along soon enough. RES 47, a proper Large Logo 47 - 436, which has endless possibilities for renumbering...The list goes on. Very happy boy here. More 60's too. 60044 ML blue. I'll have some of that boi, plus much, much more :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy:

Cheers
Anthony

It is a shame that Farish is not in a position to have a more comprehensive new tooling schedule, but the new liveries are at least quite interesting, especially (for me) the two BR blue class 47/4s, the 37 in petroleum subsector livery and the Provincial class 150/1.

Wallet breaths sigh of relief.

Like the Provincial 150/1, but have a Regional 150/2.
Like the Petrolium 37, but got loads of sector.
Like the RES 47, but that's not a priority.

I am however concerned by the direction with "sound provisioning" new chassis with a speaker for existing locos as it will drive up the price for those like me who have no need for sound. However, I can see the argument that it offers better value for the extra price rise that would no doubt happen anyway.

At least no impacted locos are in a livery I really want, can focus of the backlog of older models.

Glad Anthony ( @37058 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=90) ) is happy mind  ;)

Skyline2uk

Just tidied it up a bit, and included the PDF with photo's. :thumbsup:

Quote from: thebrighton on January 14, 2019, 12:11:08 PM
I couldn't be more underwhelmed, sorry :(

Likewise here.

Plus still no SR 4-6-0s

Quote from: Skyline2uk on January 14, 2019, 12:58:41 PM
Wallet breaths sigh of relief.

Like the Provincial 150/1, but have a Regional 150/2.
Like the Petrolium 37, but got loads of sector.
Like the RES 47, but that's not a priority.

I am however concerned by the direction with "sound provisioning" new chassis with a speaker for existing locos as it will drive up the price for those like me who have no need for sound. However, I can see the argument that it offers better value for the extra price rise that would no doubt happen anyway.

At least no impacted locos are in a livery I really want, can focus of the backlog of older models.

Glad Anthony ( @37058 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=90) ) is happy mind  ;)

Skyline2uk

Hey, I'm not one to moan mate. My air brush can rest a little this year :smiley-laughing:

Cheers
Anthony

They are obviously making a good profit on sound equipped locos. The whole announcement is a bit of a yawn. Bit unhappy that in future I will be paying extra for a speaker I don't want.

I'm looking forward to the Dapol 50 and hoping the DJM king happens. No interest in anything Farish for the forseeable future.

I like the Parrot wagons, I could use a few of them.

I reckon eight pieces.

They're going to be crackers, a real feather in BachFar' s cap.

:whistle:

As you were.

Only 2 newly tooled models both wagons one of which I would like (HKA) which given the trials and tribulations they have had moving factory and well the fact we as a a country don't know whats going to be happening in the next 12 months its a wise business move.

But to counter that the fact they are starting to future proof and upgrade existing models is a positive sign and they have the same intent to stay in N gauge as Dapol have shown by upgrading these models, which is good for all of us modellers.

For me personally though there is lots this year of interest and well the credit card has already gone into hiding through fear of general abuse it could be getting  :smiley-laughing:

The re runs of the voyagers has surprised me but a welcome one, the only thing I have a question over is if the Freightliner 66413 going to or or post naming!

Quote from: Chris Morris on January 14, 2019, 01:35:23 PM
They are obviously making a good profit on sound equipped locos. The whole announcement is a bit of a yawn. Bit unhappy that in future I will be paying extra for a speaker I don't want.

I'm looking forward to the Dapol 50 and hoping the DJM king happens. No interest in anything Farish for the forseeable future.

A choc/cream restaurant car to go with the KIng will be nice though.

I actually think that it is a sensible set of announcements from Farish.  Re-liveries of existing tooling is a good thing.

As Nick says the HKA already exists as the HHA - I wonder if they will actually re-tool it (as there are a few pretty minor differences IIRC).

Sound equipping more locos is a sensible move and from the customer point of view very welcome as Farish sound equipped locos are very well priced. Fitting speakers doesn't really cost much at all so any price rises due to that are minimal.  Farish have also taken note of complaints about some loco variants only being available sound fitted and all sound locos now appear to be available with or without sound.

Cheers, Mike

I won’t be in the market for most of the new announcements, especially a sound fitted loco, due to a limited budget and no DCC but I do think that sound fitted locos are a good idea. Sound brings an extra dimension and having seen the fascination of exhibition goers when confronted with sound in an N Gauge loco I think they are an excellent idea. I was very impressed by the Castle and class 40. I think I’ll be getting some wagons especially the Parrots.

:NGaugersRule:

Std 5 73050 ran on the Somerset & Dorset and is preserved on the Nene Valley Railway

374-995 BR 'Highlander' Coach Pack Mk2 TSO & Class 101 DTCL BR Highland Rail Green & Cream is an add-on pack for the recently released class 37/4 + MK2s train set

Looking at the HKA picture in PDF that Tank provided it looks like they have amended the HHA tooling or done new tooling for the HKAs - the spotting differences are brake actuator lever on body side and different end panels. I'm impressed and wondering how many one needs...

Cheers Mike

Does anyone know what this means for the Thompson carriages, previously predicted for August, please?

I am actually fairly pleased with this years bunch. A small number of new models, hopefully means that all the others that have still to arrive will get here sooner rather than later, Northern CL319 springs to mind.

I shall personally commit to buying all of the Northern liveried 150 DMU's  :D

Also the GBRF CL60 is a must, and maybe the DBC CL60.

I'm also pleased that the Voyager is getting a re-run, I have two Dapol Voyagers and they both need serious attention as both are non-runners.

The only things missing for me are more bogie Cement wagons, I don't yet have a full rake.

I do hope that they use a Zimo sound chip in their sound fitted locos in the same way that they have rebranded the Zimo 6 pin decoder.

Regards,

John P

Surprised there's no upgrade for the Peaks, given the success of the Class 40 chassis??

Other than that, meh!! the Wallet can stay fairly closed this year, more to spend with Ben & Mike  ;) ;)

Cheers

Neal.

P.S. Might, I say 'might' have a look at the Provincial 150.

Quote from: red_death on January 14, 2019, 02:13:34 PM
Looking at the HKA picture in PDF that Tank provided it looks like they have amended the HHA tooling or done new tooling for the HKAs - the spotting differences are brake actuator lever on body side and different end panels. I'm impressed and wondering how many one needs...

Different handbrake wheel too...? I'm stretching my knowledge of HHA/JMA/HKAs now! I see the OO gauge shot is for a pristine one, which is intriguing, but makes me hopeful they're outsourcing the weathering, rather than simply giving it the in-house waft of brown!

I would also have liked to have seen the original JMAs done, becuase then an ARC/Hanson JHA would have been more likely with LTF bogies!

Quote from: jpendle on January 14, 2019, 02:29:11 PM
The only things missing for me are more bogie Cement wagons, I don't yet have a full rake.

JPAs? A re-run was announced last year, although I've a vague recollection it may only be weathered Lafarge ones. They remain on the 'forthcoming products' list.

Don't like/won't do sound and have all of their locos I need so a cheap year for me with Farish. Just as well really as I have loads to be going on with RevolutioN wise :D

Quote from: Newportnobby on January 14, 2019, 02:35:53 PM
Don't like/won't do sound and have all of their locos I need so a cheap year for me with Farish. Just as well really as I have loads to be going on with RevolutioN wise :D

That makes me feel better. I don't like the sound either. It just sounds odd to me.

I will be looking out for the Parrot wagons though.

Quote from: R Marshall on January 14, 2019, 02:17:49 PM
Does anyone know what this means for the Thompson carriages, previously predicted for August, please?

This list is purely new announcements not stuff in the pipeline. The planned release schedule issued by Bachmann on 14/12 quoted August.

Hi all,

Got to say I think this is a really sensible, well balanced list.  A little bit for everyone, and delighted to see them squeezing sound into a Class 14!  Sound in the 60s and 150 will see me upgrading too.

HKA hoppers are going to be really good too, and recent Farish weathering on some of their steam locos has been pretty impressive so I have high hopes.

Great stuff.

Cheers

Ben A.

All

This is a good list plenty Scotrail coaches on offer

Kind Regards

Dave

Quote from: red_death on January 14, 2019, 02:13:34 PM
Looking at the HKA picture in PDF that Tank provided it looks like they have amended the HHA tooling or done new tooling for the HKAs - the spotting differences are brake actuator lever on body side and different end panels. I'm impressed and wondering how many one needs...

Cheers Mike

Mike, do you think these wagons make the possibility of Farish doing the original National Power JMAs (with correct bogies) more likely if, say, a certain manufacture beginning with D was ever to do a 59/2?

Regards

Skyline2uk

Quote from: Skyline2uk on January 14, 2019, 03:47:43 PM

Quote from: red_death on January 14, 2019, 02:13:34 PM
Looking at the HKA picture in PDF that Tank provided it looks like they have amended the HHA tooling or done new tooling for the HKAs - the spotting differences are brake actuator lever on body side and different end panels. I'm impressed and wondering how many one needs...

Cheers Mike

Mike, do you think these wagons make the possibility of Farish doing the original National Power JMAs (with correct bogies) more likely if, say, a certain manufacture beginning with D was ever to do a 59/2?

Regards

Skyline2uk

Given that a certain manufacturer are about to release a TPE liveried CL68 and Farish haven't announced any CAF MK5's then I wouldn't hold your breath  :D

Regards,

John P

Quote from: Skyline2uk on January 14, 2019, 03:47:43 PM
Mike, do you think these wagons make the possibility of Farish doing the original National Power JMAs (with correct bogies) more likely if, say, a certain manufacture beginning with D was ever to do a 59/2?

I'd be really impressed with an LTF 25 bogie in N - it is difficult enough in OO! They are inside bearing with quite a lot of interior detail and I guess would be really fragile in N - I suspect that is the biggest barrier to doing them in N. Incidentally the LTF 25 bogie on the JMA is slightly different to that on the ARC JHA IIRC.

I already have a 59/2 in NP livery a SH CJM model from a Ebay ;-)

Cheers Mike

To be fair, the mk5 coach would be a whole new tooling, whilst JMAs would just need some LTF bogies under the HKAs. They've got the basics of an inside-frame bogie on the 220, and if you do the LTF25 you can also do the JHA, as I said above, which if a 59 were forthcoming would seem to be a very nice addition.

I wouldn't be entirely surprised - may as well make the tooling work for them, perhaps next year once the future of the 59 is a little less rocky. We've seen two manufacturers release NP 59s without anything for them to run with, be a shame for Farish to do the reverse!

Edit: cross posted with Mike, didn't realise the JHA and JMA had different LTF-25s! Sure you're right about the fragility of them being an issue in N, but I'm sure it could be done! Suspect you've seen Lyneux's 3D printed ones under his JHAs on RMWeb - they looked great.

QuoteA little bit for everyone,

Not so; the only items I can see for 1930s SR are brake vans and PLV/Bogie B which I already have enough of.

Quote from: red_death on January 14, 2019, 03:58:01 PM

Quote from: Skyline2uk on January 14, 2019, 03:47:43 PM
Mike, do you think these wagons make the possibility of Farish doing the original National Power JMAs (with correct bogies) more likely if, say, a certain manufacture beginning with D was ever to do a 59/2?

I'd be really impressed with an LTF 25 bogie in N - it is difficult enough in OO! They are inside bearing with quite a lot of interior detail and I guess would be really fragile in N - I suspect that is the biggest barrier to doing them in N. Incidentally the LTF 25 bogie on the JMA is slightly different to that on the ARC JHA IIRC.

I already have a 59/2 in NP livery a SH CJM model from a Ebay ;-)

Cheers Mike

Thanks for the response Mike

Personally I would have been happy if I could find some of the Farish models that were done for CJM, but now it's been pointed out to me they technically had the wrong bogies my OCD is twitching  :D

That said, and given your detailed answer, I would settle for a "representation" of the LTF bogie  ;)

Skyline2uk

I don't doubt you can get close - they're very distinctive though, it certainly offended my sensibilities on the CJM ones! I was looking at his site last night though and I couldn't help but notice they were only £25 each. I imagine these will be nearly double that!

Quote from: njee20 on January 14, 2019, 04:28:11 PM
I don't doubt you can get close - they're very distinctive though, it certainly offended my sensibilities on the CJM ones! I was looking at his site last night though and I couldn't help but notice they were only £25 each. I imagine these will be nearly double that!

Agreed  :'(

Skyline2uk

Looks like only the Class 14 for me, but then again these will be a good 3 to 4 years away from actually going on sale so plenty of time to save up

I wonder why Farish/Bachmann have to do this when Hornby can list their new models only months before they hit the shops, how long have we been waiting for the new 8F now and still no indication of when its going to be available, for those of use less well of it does make budgeting quite difficult  :-[

Paul

One thing not to miss is Bachmann's new 009 range. Whilst not 1:148, these are 9mm track models, and as such their chassis may be of great interest to us for various uses, kit builds, scratchbuilds, mods etc.

One to watch with interest.

Cheers,
Alan

Quote from: Paul-H on January 14, 2019, 05:08:02 PM
Looks like only the Class 14 for me, but then again these will be a good 3 to 4 years away from actually going on sale so plenty of time to save up

I wonder why Farish/Bachmann have to do this when Hornby can list their new models only months before they hit the shops, how long have we been waiting for the new 8F now and still no indication of when its going to be available, for those of use less well of it does make budgeting quite difficult  :-[

To be fair that's pure speculation and they're generally much quicker at getting models out that are just a renumber or relivery, unsurprisingly It'll be interesting to see how long it takes for items with a 'new' chassis.

Having more time should make budgeting easier - set the money aside and buy when it's released. More months means more time to save up.

Only had a quick glance but it looks like a good year for Graham Farish.  Personally rather excited about:

371-289 Class 55 'Deltic' D9001 'St. Paddy' BR Two-Tone Green (Full Yellow Ends) - weathered

374-892 LMS Stanier 50ft Full Brake Tartan Arrow

Happy days!

Paddy

I'm surprised to see a sound fitted class 14. Having failed at producing a J72, I find it hard to believe that they can pull this off; I'm pretty sure this would be the smallest sound fitted loco in N—the Minitrix DB 211 and Atlas Alco S2 are both larger.

And it's time they ditched the unprototypical red connecting rods on the 14 too.

I've spent more time looking through the list especially on reliveries.

I noticed it's now possible to model a rail blue parcels formation using grouping era vehicles.
It appears that no 3-car class 101s are being planned (is it now too expensive to offer a centre car?)

I'm glad that the Voyager is being re-run although I'd shudder at its price when they reach the shops.

Well at a pinch I might be tempted by a Class 40 in green with the 2 box indicators.   And could be by a Peak in that format if it appeared.   I would be more tempted by the green and cream WHL pair if the TSO was also available separately so I could make something approaching a decent rake.  Or did they actually run in Break and full open pairs?  Though for Allanbrae I would prefer the current Jacobite livery - it was dark red when I rode it in 2003.  So I will probably pass on those and also the rest.  Got more wagons than I need for both layouts already!

Quote from: Chris Morris on January 14, 2019, 01:35:23 PM
They are obviously making a good profit on sound equipped locos. The whole announcement is a bit of a yawn. Bit unhappy that in future I will be paying extra for a speaker I don't want.

I'm looking forward to the Dapol 50 and hoping the DJM king happens. No interest in anything Farish for the forseeable future.

The Dapol 50 is very good looking, runs well too. I wouldn't worry too much about the cost of a speaker Chris, Alibaba  have them for sale from 20 US cents each, about 15 pence!
Cheers Colin

Quote from: Portpatrick on January 14, 2019, 08:04:31 PM
Well at a pinch I might be tempted by a Class 40 in green with the 2 box indicators.   And could be by a Peak in that format if it appeared.   I would be more tempted by the green and cream WHL pair if the TSO was also available separately so I could make something approaching a decent rake.  Or did they actually run in Break and full open pairs?  Though for Allanbrae I would prefer the current Jacobite livery - it was dark red when I rode it in 2003.  So I will probably pass on those and also the rest.  Got more wagons than I need for both layouts already!

Interesting choice of the split head code box Class 40.  I thought Bachmann said they would not produce this variant as it is the Great Train Robbery loco?

Paddy

i have pre-ordered

class 14 green  (assume it is dcc ready now?)
class 47/7 res with sound
class 37 mainline
mk2a tso regional railways

i'm very tempted with the blue discs class 40 and provincial class 150 as well... plus one or two more coaches...   i mean might as well just sign up for loads as got a good few years until the bill arrives!


tim

Quote from: Paddy on January 14, 2019, 09:09:49 PM

Quote from: Portpatrick on January 14, 2019, 08:04:31 PM
Well at a pinch I might be tempted by a Class 40 in green with the 2 box indicators.   And could be by a Peak in that format if it appeared.   I would be more tempted by the green and cream WHL pair if the TSO was also available separately so I could make something approaching a decent rake.  Or did they actually run in Break and full open pairs?  Though for Allanbrae I would prefer the current Jacobite livery - it was dark red when I rode it in 2003.  So I will probably pass on those and also the rest.  Got more wagons than I need for both layouts already!

Interesting choice of the split head code box Class 40.  I thought Bachmann said they would not produce this variant as it is the Great Train Robbery loco?

Paddy

The loco involved in the robbery was D326, Farish are doing it as D338

Farish must have known i've just finished repainting some more HHAs into National Power and DBS!  I reckon I'll have to get them on the bay sharpish!

Pete @EGLM

Quote from: Pete @ EGLM on January 14, 2019, 09:55:11 PM
Farish must have known i've just finished repainting some more HHAs into National Power and DBS!  I reckon I'll have to get them on the bay sharpish!

Pete @EGLM

Pete, have you weathered the NP ones?

Skyline2uk

Hi Skyline,
I've weathered some- I've tried to put a picture up, but it's always such a struggle.  I'll put a picture on Facebook NGF

Pete @EGLM

I can see some interesting wagons.
Especially the conflat with 'Mac Fisheries' containers. I'm sure my daughter will appreciate to know we are carrying fish.  :D

One question.
I've noted this one: 377-629 BR 12T Ventilated Van Plywood Doors BR Departmental Rail Stores
What are "Rail Stores" wagons used for ?
Thanks.

Happy enough with this announcement. The weathered Standard Five will certainly be on my order list, along with the weathered 4F and another J39. Could be tempted by another Class 24 too as they are an easy sound fit.

8F already ordered and a short rake of B&C Thompsons.

Roy

Quote from: ohlavache on January 14, 2019, 10:31:55 PM
I've noted this one: 377-629 BR 12T Ventilated Van Plywood Doors BR Departmental Rail Stores
What are "Rail Stores" wagons used for ?

Rail Stores was the parts delivery network set up by BR to deliver parts between workshops on the BR network. 

Scotrail 2 coach pack , TSO and BG

BUT no TSO available on its own?

Quote from: Portpatrick on January 14, 2019, 08:04:31 PM
  I would be more tempted by the green and cream WHL pair if the TSO was also available separately so I could make something approaching a decent rake.  Or did they actually run in Break and full open pairs?  Though for Allanbrae I would prefer the current Jacobite livery - it was dark red when I rode it in 2003. 

The green and cream mk2s and 101 trailer as an observation car primarily ran on the Kyle line rather than the WHL and did run in shorter rakes at times but I can't remember the shortest formation or if it ever ran on the WHL.

Cheers Mike

I asked for the Chocolate and cream RU at Ally Pally 2 years ago and by direct email to Bachman, looks like they actually listened! that, a birdcage set and a Wainwright C will do quite enough damage to my wallet without taking into account 2 kings and a revolution 56xx thank you very much!

Regards,

Alex

I must admit that experimenting with sound appeals to me, and being a DC dino, it's great to see sound fitted locomotives for DC as well digital. I'm very interested in acquiring one, of any flavour. St Paddy or another Class 14. I'm very fond of my existing teddy bear.

Got me beat how they're doing the sound though, as the whole DC concept uses varying voltage. How will the volume be kept constant?  :hmmm:

Ouch! Some of those prices are insane. The mk2 coaches that I pre ordered for £16 at Hatton's are now over £38

I have a number of sound equipped G scale locos and love them. I have yet to hear an N gauge loco with sound (or even 00) that hasn't left me totally underwhelmed. Despite improvements in speaker technology I reckon 0 is as small as you can go and get sound that is anything like it should be.

Yes. When I visited Webbo in 2017, he has a G locomotive chuffing around on a shelf above his excellent N gauge layout.

I was impressed!

However, I'm willing to give this Farish sound a go, and then make my own decisions.  :thumbsup:

Quote from: Bealman on January 15, 2019, 03:11:41 AM
.

Got me beat how they're doing the sound though, as the whole DC concept uses varying voltage. How will the volume be kept constant?  :hmmm:

The decoder has an onboard dc-dc converter which produces a constant output voltage. The dc track voltage has to reach a certain level, usually around 4.5v, before the decoder wakes up.

Thank you! Fiddling around with Arduino as I do, that's making sense.

I forget that all that be reduced in size using smds.

Thanks mate!  :thumbsup:

Quote from: Chris Morris on January 15, 2019, 07:18:26 AM
I have a number of sound equipped G scale locos and love them. I have yet to hear an N gauge loco with sound (or even 00) that hasn't left me totally underwhelmed. Despite improvements in speaker technology I reckon 0 is as small as you can go and get sound that is anything like it should be.

I've only heard one "sound fitted" model so far and underwhelmed is an understatement.
One of the lads at the club brought his new sound fitted OO gauge 37 and, although I didn't tell him so, it was bloody awful. Only occasionally could I hear anything that remotely resembled a diesel, most of the time it sounded like random static on a poorly tuned radio.

I would give high marks for the accuracy and variety of sound but it just completely lacks depth . I now recall that I have been impressed with N gauge sound just the once. The Broadway Imports rolling thunder system which uses a big speaker under the layout receiving instructions from the chip in the loco to provide the bass is well worth it. Rolling Thunder only works with their chips and these are only for US diesels, but wow .

Yes, I think sound out N gauge locos will be dodgey, and I've read quite a bit about walk-around underboard systems with good sound.

I'm just curious about the new Farish stuff  :beers:

I'm sure it will be to a similar standard to their recent models. Both the Castle and DMU provide a good variety of sound and, apart from lack of depth, are very good. The castle basic sound works on DC (and has done since it was first made) but of course you can't trigger the function key driven sounds. I expect the new ones will be the same. Also I assume there isn't going to be room for a back up battery so the sounds won't work on DC  when the loco isn't moving. In the larger scales a back up battery keeps things ticking over (literally) when the DC power is off.

Won't the acoustics of the room in which you are running your sound loco in have a bearing on the sound produced? I would have thought so but I don't have a sound loco to test out the theory.

Quote from: Pete @ EGLM on January 14, 2019, 10:16:13 PM
Hi Skyline,
I've weathered some- I've tried to put a picture up, but it's always such a struggle.  I'll put a picture on Facebook NGF

Pete @EGLM

Does that mean some are "clean"?

Look forward to pictures  :thumbsup:

Skyline2uk

Quote from: silly moo on January 15, 2019, 08:23:05 AM
Won't the acoustics of the room in which you are running your sound loco in have a bearing on the sound produced? I would have thought so but I don't have a sound loco to test out the theory.

Definitely. The sound quality in large exhibition halls is noticeably degraded compared to small rooms.

Mmm interesting, I wouldn't say there is any hint of such a poor quality sound wise on my Fleischmann SBB Re460, this can be done

I'm no great fan of sound fitted locos in N, but I wouldn't want to deny it to those that want it. However (slightly tongue in cheek) I'd ban it at exhibitions. At TINGS this year there was a layout with sound fitted locos next to mine. After a couple of hours it becomes REALLY annoying, especially with locos sat still emitting idling engine sounds. It is a bit like how I might imagine suffering from tinitus to be. For me it comes under the heading of "just because you can doesn't mean you should." However, each to their own - as this is what model railways is all about.

I agree that the sound will be different at home compared to an exhibition hall.

But we're getting off topic here.

Back to Farish!

Quote from: red_death on January 14, 2019, 11:31:22 PM

Quote from: Portpatrick













quote author=red_death link=topic=44128.msg548787#msg548787 date=1547508682]

Quote from: Portpatrick on January 14, 2019, 08:04:31 PM
  I would be more tempted by the green and cream WHL pair if the TSO was also available separately so I could make something approaching a decent rake.  Or did they actually run in Break and full open pairs?  Though for Allanbrae I would prefer the current Jacobite livery - it was dark red when I rode it in 2003. 

The green and cream mk2s and 101 trailer as an observation car primarily ran on the Kyle line rather than the WHL and did run in shorter rakes at times but I can't remember the shortest formation or if it ever ran on the WHL.

Cheers Mike

link=topic=44128.msg548751#msg548751 date=1547496271]
  I would be more tempted by the green and cream WHL pair if the TSO was also available separately so I could make something approaching a decent rake.  Or did they actually run in Break and full open pairs?  Though for Allanbrae I would prefer the current Jacobite livery - it was dark red when I rode it in 2003. 

The green and cream mk2s and 101 trailer as an observation car primarily ran on the Kyle line rather than the WHL and did run in shorter rakes at times but I can't remember the shortest formation or if it ever ran on the WHL.

Cheers Mike
[/quote]

Thanks for that clarification Mike.  I will look through my books and see what I can find.

Quote from: Hailstone on January 15, 2019, 01:38:42 AM
I asked for the Chocolate and cream RU at Ally Pally 2 years ago and by direct email to Bachman, looks like they actually listened!

Good news at last! 

Some useful re-liveries.

I wonder how long they'll take to appear - I'm still waiting for re-liveries from the 2015/16 catalogue...

Looks like I'll have to wait a little longer for D200/40106 or get my airbrush out.

Quote from: westie7 on January 14, 2019, 11:30:41 PM
Scotrail 2 coach pack , TSO and BG

BUT no TSO available on its own?

I don't think there were very many MK2A TSOs at all in ScotRail, and I've only ever seen (in videos or pics I must confess) single ones in a rakes with air-con Mk2s, although these tended to be in the additional Aberdeen push-pull rakes with a DBSO, not a BG. I wonder if this was their thinking? I know there are others on here far more knowledgeable than me  ;)   :thumbsup:

Quote from: gc4946 on January 14, 2019, 09:31:24 PM
The loco involved in the robbery was D326, Farish are doing it as D338

Oh I know it is the wrong number but it is the right style of Class 40.

Paddy

Be a bit weird frankly to avoid an entire sub-class just because of one event. Not doing the exact loco seems fair enough; I'd not expect them to make a model of the exact locos involved in any major crash, but not to avoid the entire class/livery variation.

[quote author=AdrianC link=topic=44128.msg548837#msg548837 date=15475
I don't think there were very many MK2A TSOs at all in ScotRail, and I've only ever seen (in videos or pics I must confess) single ones in a rakes with air-con Mk2s, although these tended to be in the additional Aberdeen push-pull rakes with a DBSO, not a BG. I wonder if this was their thinking? I know there are others on here far more knowledgeable than me  ;)   :thumbsup:
[/quote]

There was about half a dozen I think, but they were MK2 not mk2a. Have the list somewhere I'll need to dig it out

..still not 90/91 re-tooled and upgrade to DCC socket?
or Mk4/new MK5?... :hmmm:

Marco

I'm a bit surprised they haven't given the Castle some new names/numbers.

Quote from: marco neri on January 15, 2019, 11:59:26 AM

..still not 90/91 re-tooled and upgrade to DCC socket?
or Mk4/new MK5?... :hmmm:

Can't see the 91 or mk4 being done any time soon. Mk5 is sure to be done at some point as they become more common.

90 would be great though, I imagine that'll happen at some point once they're on top of their backlog.

Quote from: westie7 on January 15, 2019, 11:55:18 AM
[quote author=AdrianC link=topic=44128.msg548837#msg548837 date=15475
I don't think there were very many MK2A TSOs at all in ScotRail, and I've only ever seen (in videos or pics I must confess) single ones in a rakes with air-con Mk2s, although these tended to be in the additional Aberdeen push-pull rakes with a DBSO, not a BG. I wonder if this was their thinking? I know there are others on here far more knowledgeable than me  ;)   :thumbsup:

There was about half a dozen I think, but they were MK2 not mk2a. Have the list somewhere I'll need to dig it out
[/quote]

I did wonder as i typed if they were mk2 not mk2a as I typed but wasn't entirely sure.

One thing for sure, I'm certainly considering pre-ordering this, and the green and cream mk1s and mk2/class 101 sets. Got memories of bagging some time round Inverness depot when the first Green and Cream mk2 coaches where stored in the old carriage shed.....

Quote from: emjaybee on January 14, 2019, 01:37:53 PM
I like the Parrot wagons, I could use a few of them.

I reckon eight pieces.

They're going to be crackers, a real feather in BachFar' s cap.

:whistle:

As you were.

They are the only thing that interests me too, perhaps a few may enter my pool of wagons.

The Bachman release for 2019 has far too much "buzz box" stuff for my liking :(

Quote from: paulprice on January 15, 2019, 01:41:16 PM

Quote from: emjaybee on January 14, 2019, 01:37:53 PM
I like the Parrot wagons, I could use a few of them.

I reckon eight pieces.

They're going to be crackers, a real feather in BachFar' s cap.

:whistle:

As you were.

They are the only thing that interests me too, perhaps a few may enter my pool of wagons.

The Bachman release for 2019 has far too much "buzz box" stuff for my liking :(

Nice to have an more interesting LMS wagon for a change.

(Does nobody get my Parrot humour, or are they just ignoring it?)

Definitely ignoring it, but it was noted! ;-)

I see Hatton's newsletter includes information on all the forthcoming releases - does that mean they've resolved their "issues" with Bachmann? All the new releases have been conspicuous by their absence for the last few months!

£191 for the sound fitted 60s, that's superb! I really hope the bodies can be swapped around, would like a few of those!

Edit: also thinking out loud... they're doing the 220 in "revised Virgin livery", which I was thinking to mean either the grey doors, or the new red silk livery. But it's a 220, not a 221, which were only ever in the original Virgin livery weren't they? It's the Super Voyagers that get used on the WCML, as opposed to the 220s on Cross Country services? This is borne out by 220018 being part of the Arriva XC fleet.

Thank you for your honesty.

Still very excited by the Parrot wagons, I'm sure my excitement will be tempered when I'm still waiting in 18 months time, but hey-ho.

:D

Quote from: emjaybee on January 15, 2019, 01:43:31 PM

(Does nobody get my Parrot humour, or are they just ignoring it?)

I'm the one who clicked on the 'Funny' button.
Beautiful plumage, the Norwegian Blue :D

Quote from: njee20 on January 15, 2019, 01:47:54 PM
Definitely ignoring it, but it was noted! ;-)

Edit: also thinking out loud... they're doing the 220 in "revised Virgin livery", which I was thinking to mean either the grey doors, or the new red silk livery. But it's a 220, not a 221, which were only ever in the original Virgin livery weren't they? It's the Super Voyagers that get used on the WCML, as opposed to the 220s on Cross Country services? This is borne out by 220018 being part of the Arriva XC fleet.

Just checking up when it was transfered to Arriva XC the name was removed so by all accounts it is right to presume that it is Revised Virgin livery

Lots of coaches I am excited about here
Quite a few twin packs where I may have to work out what to do with the extras so I can buy even more  :D any one want a Scotrail BG or Wesh Highland BCK?

Will be pre-ordering the Hebridean MK2 and ex-DMU trailer. 
Hope a Regional Railways MK2 Break coach follows eventually but a rake of the standards will look good behind my renamed Highland Enterprise 37.

Quote from: Portpatrick on January 15, 2019, 09:04:51 AM

Quote from: red_death on January 14, 2019, 11:31:22 PM

Quote from: Portpatrick on January 14, 2019, 08:04:31 PM
  I would be more tempted by the green and cream WHL pair if the TSO was also available separately so I could make something approaching a decent rake.  Or did they actually run in Break and full open pairs?  Though for Allanbrae I would prefer the current Jacobite livery - it was dark red when I rode it in 2003. 

The green and cream mk2s and 101 trailer as an observation car primarily ran on the Kyle line rather than the WHL and did run in shorter rakes at times but I can't remember the shortest formation or if it ever ran on the WHL.
Cheers Mike

Thanks for that clarification Mike.  I will look through my books and see what I can find.

Think wires might have been crossed there.
Mike is right about the Green and Cream Hebridean Mk2 and DMU being primary used on Kyle. Ideally you would need to have bought the highlander set but you could use some regional railways or blue Mk2 coaches to stand in.
The West Highland MK1 TSO and BCK, were used with the steam specials on the West Highland line. There were only 2 Break coaches (in slightly different applications of the livery) unfortunately the other one was a BSO so other than breaking sets or repainting it is difficult to make a longer rake.
When Harburn hobbies commissioned some in OO I believe they did it as a 3 pack so atleast you had a better looking length.

Quote from: AdrianC on January 15, 2019, 12:40:07 PM

Quote from: westie7 on January 15, 2019, 11:55:18 AM

Quote from: AdrianC on January 01, 1970, 05:17:55 AM
I don't think there were very many MK2A TSOs at all in ScotRail, and I've only ever seen (in videos or pics I must confess) single ones in a rakes with air-con Mk2s, although these tended to be in the additional Aberdeen push-pull rakes with a DBSO, not a BG. I wonder if this was their thinking? I know there are others on here far more knowledgeable than me  ;)   :thumbsup:

There was about half a dozen I think, but they were MK2 not mk2a. Have the list somewhere I'll need to dig it out

I did wonder as i typed if they were mk2 not mk2a as I typed but wasn't entirely sure.

One thing for sure, I'm certainly considering pre-ordering this, and the green and cream mk1s and mk2/class 101 sets. Got memories of bagging some time round Inverness depot when the first Green and Cream mk2 coaches where stored in the old carriage shed.....

Yea you are right they are MK2 rather than MK2A (Not that it has bothered Farish in the past, although differences are minor)
The MK2 TSO came from the Old push pull rake which was kept on as they were unsure how reliable the DBSO would be. When reliability was better than expected they  formed the TSO with a DBSO and used them on various services. After the MK2e/d rakes arrived you were more likely to see the coaches used to strengthen the trains.

There were 5 Mk2 TSO (5146,5152,5153,5176,5197) in Scotrail and an oddball FK (13424) from the same rake which was repainted just in time to be scrapped.

The BG were introduced for the launch of the Glasgow-Aberdeen service but wandered on to the Edinburgh-Aberdeen turns and as use declined were scattered about the UK. Seen pictures of them in Transpennine Rake and Parcels trains in Cornwall.

---
(I will resisted refering to the "mk2" as a "mk2z" as despite the Z being in the TOPS code and making the conversations easier to follow people get upset)
TSO - Tourist Standard Open, BG - Brake Guard, FK - First Corridor, BCK - Brake composite corridor, BSO - Brake standard open, DBSO - Driving Brake Standard Open

Yea you are right they are MK2 rather than MK2A (Not that it has bothered Farish in the past, although differences are minor)
The MK2 TSO came from the Old push pull rake which was kept on as they were unsure how reliable the DBSO would be. When reliability was better than expected they  formed the TSO with a DBSO and used them on various services. After the MK2e/d rakes arrived you were more likely to see the coaches used to strengthen the trains.

There were 5 Mk2 TSO (5146,5152,5153,5176,5197) in Scotrail and an oddball FK (13424) from the same rake which was repainted just in time to be scrapped.

The BG were introduced for the launch of the Glasgow-Aberdeen service but wandered on to the Edinburgh-Aberdeen turns and as use declined were scattered about the UK. Seen pictures of them in Transpennine Rake and Parcels trains in Cornwall.

[/quote]

Cheers, not far off with the 6 then :D

Aiming for this

https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnoram/8398838740/in/faves-87769016@N04/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnoram/8398838740/in/faves-87769016@N04/)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jbg06003/26943154392/in/faves-87769016@N04/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jbg06003/26943154392/in/faves-87769016@N04/)

Rgds
Mark

Quote from: jthjth on January 15, 2019, 08:47:15 AM
I'm no great fan of sound fitted locos in N, but I wouldn't want to deny it to those that want it. However (slightly tongue in cheek) I'd ban it at exhibitions. At TINGS this year there was a layout with sound fitted locos next to mine. After a couple of hours it becomes REALLY annoying, especially with locos sat still emitting idling engine sounds. It is a bit like how I might imagine suffering from tinitus to be. For me it comes under the heading of "just because you can doesn't mean you should." However, each to their own - as this is what model railways is all about.

Yes - the worst is the 'Sounds' from the fiddle-yard full of locos "heard but not seen" The fiddle yard represents the rest of the world - those trains should be many miles away out of hearing range and not competing with the on-stage locos - When they go off stage please PLEASE mute them!!!

Quote from: gc4946 on January 14, 2019, 06:12:36 PMIt appears that no 3-car class 101s are being planned (is it now too expensive to offer a centre car?)

I'm glad that the Voyager is being re-run although I'd shudder at its price when they reach the shops.

Guess not if they can do a Voyager which has two (different!) centre cars...

Quote from: PLD on January 15, 2019, 08:12:06 PM

Quote from: gc4946 on January 14, 2019, 06:12:36 PMIt appears that no 3-car class 101s are being planned (is it now too expensive to offer a centre car?)

I'm glad that the Voyager is being re-run although I'd shudder at its price when they reach the shops.

Guess not if they can do a Voyager which has two (different!) centre cars...

But there are very few parts to assemble for the voyager centre cars compared to a Class 101 centre car.

Doh! My bad - I'd not read properly that there was both the mk1 as well as the mk2 packs coming in green and cream! Apologies for the confusion.

Quote from: acko22 on January 15, 2019, 05:53:17 PM
Just checking up when it was transfered to Arriva XC the name was removed so by all accounts it is right to presume that it is Revised Virgin livery

But surely that means it's just original Virgin livery? My assumption would be that revised would be either the grey doors or the red silk livery they've just rolled out, but it can't be either as they were never applied to a 220 AFAIK.

Quote from: njee20 on January 15, 2019, 09:44:45 PM

Quote from: acko22 on January 15, 2019, 05:53:17 PM
Just checking up when it was transfered to Arriva XC the name was removed so by all accounts it is right to presume that it is Revised Virgin livery

But surely that means it's just original Virgin livery? My assumption would be that revised would be either the grey doors or the red silk livery they've just rolled out, but it can't be either as they were never applied to a 220 AFAIK.

when I first looked at the announcements I thought that the revised was the tooling (or more revised body)  are we still going to get the major blacked out windows?

Quote from: jacowin80 on January 15, 2019, 10:06:06 PM

Quote from: njee20 on January 15, 2019, 09:44:45 PM

Quote from: acko22 on January 15, 2019, 05:53:17 PM
Just checking up when it was transfered to Arriva XC the name was removed so by all accounts it is right to presume that it is Revised Virgin livery

But surely that means it's just original Virgin livery? My assumption would be that revised would be either the grey doors or the red silk livery they've just rolled out, but it can't be either as they were never applied to a 220 AFAIK.

when I first looked at the announcements I thought that the revised was the tooling (or more revised body)  are we still going to get the major blacked out windows?

Looks like it from the picture on the Bachmann website

(https://i2.wp.com/www.bachmann.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/371-680.jpg)

I'm sure if it was a revised tooling it wouldn't be the very last item on the list, and I'm not sure it needs revising, although all of mine are rather sluggish, so a new motor wouldn't go amiss!

It looks like a straight re-release of the original Virgin model with a new running number, which seems eminently sensible given second hand values. That said, with the new one being £215 at Hatton's, and potentially rising, I'm not sure it'll do anything to second hand sales except push them up further as there's a new market rate for the new ones.

One thing that's bugging me is what are the release dates for these compared to stuff we know is 'on the way', ostensibly because there were undecorated samples at Tings / Warley etc.

I'm referring particularly to the MK2Fs and the DBSOs personally, but obviously it also applies to the Thompson coaches (i think they were) and others. Which is coming first, those on this list, or the items at the shows?

I may have missed something...... :dunce: :confusedsign: :confused1:

Quote from: AdrianC on January 16, 2019, 09:18:57 AM
One thing that's bugging me is what are the release dates for these compared to stuff we know is 'on the way', ostensibly because there were undecorated samples at Tings / Warley etc.

I'm referring particularly to the MK2Fs and the DBSOs personally, but obviously it also applies to the Thompson coaches (i think they were) and others. Which is coming first, those on this list, or the items at the shows?

I may have missed something...... :dunce: :confusedsign: :confused1:

Don't take these announcements as any form of indication that delivery is imminent... Unless specifically stated for an individual item, It is nothing more than "these are things we are considering producing in the future that may or may not ultimately make it to production at some unspecified date in the future"
Items you have seen tangible development models for at shows are definitely going ahead and unless there are significant outside disruptors, will be the next new items to market. They generally won't be mentioned in these announcements and are covered be separate less hyped release notes.

I was hoping for some Peak action, never mind i can keep an eye on ebay  :'(

Quote from: njee20 on January 16, 2019, 07:43:17 AM
I'm sure if it was a revised tooling it wouldn't be the very last item on the list, and I'm not sure it needs revising, although all of mine are rather sluggish, so a new motor wouldn't go amiss!

It looks like a straight re-release of the original Virgin model with a new running number, which seems eminently sensible given second hand values. That said, with the new one being £215 at Hatton's, and potentially rising, I'm not sure it'll do anything to second hand sales except push them up further as there's a new market rate for the new ones.

Ditto the Cross Country version - I'd prefer Farish's over Dapol's Voyager models because spares are more easily available.

Yep, although again a shame it's the 220 as it means no 5-car variants.

With any luck they will announce a 221 in the new silk livery in the 2020 catalog, with the rate they get these things made we should have them both at the same time.  At least the 220 is looking likely to be cheaper than the 350 they announced last year.  A new motor would be great in the 220 though, I'm hoping that I can use it to drag my failed Dapol one around the layout. It was mentioned quite a while ago over on the Dapol digest that they were considering doing a re-release as well, I'm sure with this news coming out of Farish that that plan is dead in the water.  Shame really as I think if Dapol had acted quicker they could have struck while the iron was hot and had them out in time to coincide with the launch of Revolutions magnificent pendolino.

Quote from: PLD on January 15, 2019, 08:10:24 PM

Quote from: jthjth on January 15, 2019, 08:47:15 AM
I'm no great fan of sound fitted locos in N, but I wouldn't want to deny it to those that want it. However (slightly tongue in cheek) I'd ban it at exhibitions. At TINGS this year there was a layout with sound fitted locos next to mine. After a couple of hours it becomes REALLY annoying, especially with locos sat still emitting idling engine sounds. It is a bit like how I might imagine suffering from tinitus to be. For me it comes under the heading of "just because you can doesn't mean you should." However, each to their own - as this is what model railways is all about.

Yes - the worst is the 'Sounds' from the fiddle-yard full of locos "heard but not seen" The fiddle yard represents the rest of the world - those trains should be many miles away out of hearing range and not competing with the on-stage locos - When they go off stage please PLEASE mute them!!!

Someone at the Model Railway Club has written a script in JMRI that does this automatically (and also automatically turns on the sound when the trains enter the scenic area), which makes for much happier ears.

Those Class 14s are absurdly good looking!  :heart2:

Just been doing a bit of online window shopping on the Farish website - whoa - when did their prices suddenly go so mad?!!! Wagons seem to be around the £20 mark (about twice the price of Peco or Dapol), coaches are nudging £40 each and now the jinty is their only steam loco under £100 with a couple of engines well over £200!!! Looks like they're following the Apple business model - when sales start to tail off and profits take a dip, don't bother with developing exciting new products - just put your prices up! Joking aside I wonder if Bachmann have found the British N gauge market less profitable than they hoped and these are the prices we'll have to pay to keep Graham Farish viable as a long-term business? And I wonder if other manufacturers will start putting their prices up too? To me the main advantages of N gauge are that it takes up minimal space and it isn't too harsh on the wallet. The main disadvantage is the limited choice of models (and increasingly the need to find my glasses every time I want to look at my models!). I'm just getting back into model railways after a long gap. Currently I'm collecting suitable stock whilst planning my layout - but if prices are set to double the case the N gauge suddenly becomes a whole lot less compelling!

Welcome back. The cost of N Gauge is certainly a shock if you've been away, but on the plus side the slow pace of new models means that most items are available second hand at prices well below new.

Quote from: longbow on January 21, 2019, 11:31:02 PM
Welcome back. The cost of N Gauge is certainly a shock if you've been away, but on the plus side the slow pace of new models means that most items are available second hand at prices well below new.

Or as in the case of the likes of EvilBay well above the prices when new, due to the habit of small production runs not matching demand.

Talking of new costs, have you seen what they will be asking for their new birdcage carriages, a pack of 3 for only £150. £50 each puts them above 00 prices. Can't see N-Gauge lasting as a viable hobby if the other makers follow Bachmanns business model.

Who would have thought only a few years ago, that anyone thinking of getting into model rail would be told get into 00 it's the cheapest gauge ;)

Quote from: TalyllynJon on January 21, 2019, 10:35:00 PMWagons seem to be around the £20 mark

In some cases a 4 wheel wagon now tops £25

Quote from: TalyllynJon on January 21, 2019, 10:35:00 PMif prices are set to double the case the N gauge suddenly becomes a whole lot less compelling!

On the Hattons site if you compare prices for the same wagon in N and OO e.g. the Metalair PCA in Blue Circle livery the OO one is cheaper.

OK so they're both pre-order prices but you get a lot more for your money in OO.

I'm not sure the OO analogy stacks up - the cost isn't raw materials, and the OO gauge market is larger, so it's not hugely surprising that some OO gauge models are cheaper, although it's annoying! The new Accurascale PCA is the same; cheaper in OO. Locos are still consistently more expensive in OO, items being cheaper ('Railroad' type low-detail ranges being the exception) are still the exception rather than the norm.

Equally Revolution models are proving cheaper in N than OO still, albeit swayed slightly by in the case of the IZA by Kernow's margin.

Bachmann have been putting prices up on re-releases of existing models for a good number of years now. Time was their FIA Multifret container pairs were the same price as Dapol's FEAs/Megafrets, now the Dapol ones are £35 (without containers) whilst the Farish ones are over £80 (admittedly with boxes). In some ways it's a shame, it feels like re-releasing a model should curb escalating second hand prices, but it will likely have the opposite effect - it re-baselines the value of an item and drags up the value of the existing ones too.

Locos over £200 is a bit unfair, AFAIK that's only sound fitted models.

Ultimately it's all just economics, the hobby isn't dying, despite what a vocal minority may think, if anything it's the opposite. I CBA to find the post I always put on these threads, but the ongoing cost of modelling is negligible. There is no reason to have to keep buying these, we just want to. Newcomers won't be put off because they don't remember "the halcyon days when a loco was £3", so that argument is moot, and as above, new prices rises will bolster the  healthy second hand market, such that any existing collection is now worth more.

Quote from: Paul-H on January 22, 2019, 08:31:42 AM

Talking of new costs, have you seen what they will be asking for their new birdcage carriages, a pack of 3 for only £150. £50 each puts them above 00 prices. Can't see N-Gauge lasting as a viable hobby if the other makers follow Bachmanns business model.

Being blunt, no one in their right mind would pay full RRP. This set at Rails is £127.46. Still an eye watering amount but those carriages and the Class 'C' will make a very lovely train. OK - I have more disposable income than many younger people but, at the end of the day, everyone is free to decide how to spend their dosh

I wasn't comparing the latest Farish prices with the halcyon days of my youth - just the halcyon days before Christmas!

I totally get that prices need to rise steadily. I also get that price is not directly related to size - design and development costs etc will likely be the same whatever the scale.

What I don't get is the huge difference between the latest Farish prices and their prices just a month ago, or the prices of similar items from their competitors.

E.g. If I were to buy a modest little train with a GWR pannier and a dozen private owner wagons I could get the loco from Dapol for £85 and Peco wagons for about £8.50 each - setting me back £187. The cheapest Farish pannier is £105 and their private owner wagons seem to average around £19.95 - making the Farish train about £344! That's not far off twice as much. Or to put another way - for the price of the Farish goods train I could buy a similar train from Dapol/Peco, plus another pannier and B set - and still have £40 left over!

But surely you can see that's an apples:oranges comparison? You're mixing and matching bits from other brands (offering a wildly inferior product) and comparing them those from a third. Furthermore you're comparing retail prices on Farish with 'mail order' prices for Dapol/Peco.

On Hatton's the Dapol pannier is £72, whilst the Farish one is £89 on pre-order. Farish's forthcoming 5 plank wagons are £15.26 each. So... yes, you can pay £187 for your Dapol pannier and the far cruder Peco wagons, or you can have the better wagons (no idea if the Farish Pannier is better) for £270. That there are two price points should be a good thing, you have the choice.

With the caveat that I'm only interested in stuff from the last 20 years, I'm not aware of any items that Farish had in their current range in December that markedly increased in January. There were certainly some increases of course, but they were all older models. The Voyager has doubled in price on re-release, but the original batch can't have been far off 10 years ago.

So your Pannier/PO wagon analogy doesn't stack up, unless Farish had a current Pannier and set of PO wagons for £187 in December.

Vote with your feet and buy the Dapol/Peco items, the market will quickly dictate if the Farish ones are overpriced.

Edit because I'd managed to delete half of the last sentence :doh:

Quote from: Newportnobby on January 22, 2019, 10:03:21 AM

Quote from: Paul-H on January 22, 2019, 08:31:42 AM

Talking of new costs, have you seen what they will be asking for their new birdcage carriages, a pack of 3 for only £150. £50 each puts them above 00 prices. Can't see N-Gauge lasting as a viable hobby if the other makers follow Bachmanns business model.

Being blunt, no one in their right mind would pay full RRP.

Unless you want to support your local model shop rather than a box shifter!

Quote from: nookfield on January 22, 2019, 10:50:43 AM

Quote from: Newportnobby on January 22, 2019, 10:03:21 AM

Quote from: Paul-H on January 22, 2019, 08:31:42 AM

Talking of new costs, have you seen what they will be asking for their new birdcage carriages, a pack of 3 for only £150. £50 each puts them above 00 prices. Can't see N-Gauge lasting as a viable hobby if the other makers follow Bachmanns business model.

Being blunt, no one in their right mind would pay full RRP.

Unless you want to support your local model shop rather than a box shifter!

True, but then you couldn't complain about the price. Each to their own

Quote from: Paul-H on January 22, 2019, 08:31:42 AM
Or as in the case of the likes of EvilBay well above the prices when new, due to the habit of small production runs not matching demand.

With very few exceptions (Class 40 sound being one) manufactures do meet demand with production runs. Most models are available in shops for a couple of years after release. A lot of models are then reduced in price to clear stocks. They cannot afford to have warehouses full of stock on the off chance that someone may want one in the future. 

To have a new production run of a model the manufacturer needs to be confident that they will sell 1000+ of the model.

Prices on ebay reflect the availability of a model on the second hand market rather than the demand for a rerun of the product. If a model doesn't appear very often on ebay and you have a handful of people wanting to buy it then the price will reflect this. It doesn't mean that the manufacturer would then sell 1000+ of it if they had another production run. 

Reminds me of something Richard Lines said about the introduction of Tri-Ang TT.  Basically, Richard said that it cost the same to make TT as OO but customers expected to pay less for the "little one".  The volume for TT and the cutting of Tri-Ang's margins made TT not commercially viable.

So for prices of British N Gauge (BNG) to moderate the market would need to expand significantly and I just don't see it.  Even if BNG grew to the same size as the OO market then the prices would not change much - probably GF would make a better margin.

I don't know, but I suspect GF are probably making a lower margin on BNG than OO even at these prices given the smaller volumes.

Paddy

I do not understand N gauge's market segment to be at an inherently lower price point than OO gauge. The gauges do not compete on price. Instead, the advantage of N gauge is its scale: a smaller scale allows a modeller to fit more in the same amount of space as larger scales. The downside of this is that the models are smaller and, some may think (although not I; but I may take a different view when I am old and my eyesight is worn out) less satisfying to look at.

If there is a saving in money, it is a saving in space. Increasingly, space is expensive. By allowing a satisfactory layout in a smaller space, N gauge permits the saving of money by not requiring larger premises.

It seems inherently implausible to suggest that there will only be a market demand for N gauge products if the prices are lower than for OO gauge products or that an increase in price signifies a diminishing market. Far from it: in any given market, an increase in the price of goods usually indicates strong demand.

Interesting that items from one manufacturer are considered "expensive" yet comparable products, at a higher price point from another manufacturer are considered "bargains"...

Take as a simple example; this Farish Tanker which can be had for under £20 from a number of places is apparently expensive according to some.
https://railsofsheffield.com/products/30719/graham-farish-373-777d-n-gauge-45-tonne-glw-tta-tank-wagon-shell-bp-weathered
While a Revolution 35 ton Class B which is comparable in size and complexity is £27 yet we apparently can't get enough of them at that 'give away' price!!

Does a past record of 'Cheap and cheerful' (cos that's what Poole era Farish wagons really were) give different expectations to a new entrant to the market?
:hmmm:

As someone said a few posts ago, "you pays your money you make your choice" if you want cheap and cheerful, buy Peco or second hand, if you want finer detail (as a significant proportion of the market do), pay the premium for the latest spec models.

The Farish TTA is actually an early China designed model (2007), and apart from the finer ladder and finer underside, is not a huge leap forward from the Peco model of 1967.
I dont like the way the ladder is in two bits, as it was only in one bit in reality.
Bob

We're only a couple of weeks away from Chinese New Year so I wonder whether Farish can push anything out before that long break :hmmm: :uneasy:

So retail price for the CL319 has just gone up to 299 pounds, the new 450 is 375 pounds and the Voyager is 399 pounds  :goggleeyes: :goggleeyes: :goggleeyes:

By comparison, the reliveried CL60's are 145 pounds. and new coaching stock is 50 pounds max.

So I can tolerate a 2 car MU retailing at 200 quid, cos that's what a loco and a coach would cost bought separately, but 100 pounds per vehicle for a 3 or 4 car MU seems a bit steep even to me.

There has to be more to this than a rise in manufacturing costs because, as far as I can tell, the Voyager isn't even new tooling.

Perhaps Bachmann can't meet volume any more so they are pricing for very limited runs?

Regards,

John P

The Voyager remains bizarre, as they say it's a "revised Virgin livery", but that was never carried by any of the 220s, which were all transferred to Cross Country.

That does seem a ludicrous amount of money. Cheltenham Models have a Virgin one listed at £200 that's been going to all the shows, doesn't seem to sell, hard to imagine them going for double that. Particularly if they're still woefully slow.

Quote from: jpendle on February 12, 2020, 05:02:40 PM
Perhaps Bachmann can't meet volume any more so they are pricing for very limited runs?

Perhaps they're missing the sales volume from Hattons??  :hmmm: :hmmm:

I wonder if the new Farish prices reflect the market size for British N gauge.  Perhaps, in the past the OO range was cross subsidising?  Farish do produce some wonderful models but the prices are beginning to feel expensive (I know the pain point is different for each of us).

Kind regards

Paddy

Hi all,

I doubt the Hatton's dispute is having a significant impact; after all there are plenty of other online retailers and I doubt there many customers who will say "if I can't get it from Hatton's then I will go without."

However, we know the volumes for N are significantly lower than 00, and it may be Farish, having been stung with the MOQ for the 350 which took years to shift and ended up in the bargain bins. I don't know if John P is correct, but it is certainly one possibility.

Cheers

Ben A.

Parent company Kader Holdings has been having a pretty torrid time of late due to increased competition and the ToysRUs collapse, with profits halving in 2019 and falling into loss in 1H 2010. Their shares have fallen almost 70% over the last two years.  So it would be no surprise if they were limiting resources and raising margins in their niche product areas such as Graham Farish. 

Hi @longbow (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5526)

Wow, I see what you mean.  Kadar's interim results do not look good.  The business seems to be facing some real challenges.

Kind regards

Paddy

Maybe Hornby should buy out Graham Farish!

Given their exceptionally precarious financial position that would seem a bizarre choice.

Quote from: njee20 on February 13, 2020, 06:13:33 PM
Given their exceptionally precarious financial position that would seem a bizarre choice.

I prefer the bizarre, makes life interesting.

But why would they do that...? Bachmann aren't selling. Hornby aren't buying. Just seems a weird comment.  ???

Quote from: njee20 on February 13, 2020, 08:14:25 PM
But why would they do that...? Bachmann aren't selling. Hornby aren't buying. Just seems a weird comment.  ???

It's just a comment,  idle speculation, chill out.

Quote from: honestjudge on February 13, 2020, 04:30:41 PM
Maybe Hornby should buy out Graham Farish!

I think this idea is sufficiently out there to be a fun thought. I had thought of being sensible and commenting on that but then I thought well....stranger things have happened.
chill and ride the breeze
Bob

I'd be suprised if the price rises were purely down to N Gauge models having to cover their own costs over a lower volume of models compared to the OO Gauge range. Haing spoken to Colin Albright and Dennis Lovett in the past I was never left with the impression that OO Gauge models were subsidising those in the smaller scale.

Rapido Trains have in the past said that one of the problems of producing British models is the cost of printing all the lettering. Each different colour needs a pass through the tampo printing machine. North American models with two or three colours takes less time than a British model - count the number of colours in a BR crest for example. I'm sure I've read recently that one manufacturer had to allocate two machines to printing BR crests as one on its own didn't have enough colours.

The price rises are unfortunate but inevatable. I've certainly scaled back my purchases and have been buying more models second hand. I've virtually stopped buying models just because they look nice and am now looking through my stock box to see what I'm actually likely to run and use. With some of the newer models I may also take the risk of leaving some purchases until prices drop. 1st class Mk1s are easy to come by for example so I may leave any Mk2F purchases until prices drop.

A bigger problem to me is the delays to the production of new models. The Mk2Fs have taken years longer than they needed to and even simple re-liveries are coming out a year or two beyond the 18 month period the catalogues used to cover. To a certain extent the new Thomas range has taken a lot of the factory capacity and I'm sure will earn them more than any LMS or GWR model ever would.

Steven B.

The same is happening in OO FWIW, there's a thread on RMWeb bemoaning the fact that the new Bachmann BEP (which is basically 3/4 old tooling from the CEP) is £450.

Perhaps it's the same story with competing against larger runs of other Kader products like US models, but even so...

Possibly the model railway hobby (for new products) will go full circle in the years ahead and return to a rich man's hobby...

Paddy

Not sure it's ever been anything but, really. In relative terms at least.

Quote from: njee20 on February 12, 2020, 05:07:43 PM
The Voyager remains bizarre, as they say it's a "revised Virgin livery", but that was never carried by any of the 220s, which were all transferred to Cross Country.

So far as I know it was only carried by one 221, so not exactly mainstream even with them!

It's also worth noting that all the Voyager models (220 and 221), in both scales, are only correct for the original livery (i.e. Virgin), and the XC one. In recent years the real ones have all had the vallences on the front replaced with new ones of a different shape.

Here's my dilemma.

I can buy a 16 coach Highland sleeper, plus a DCC sound equipped CL92 from Revolution for around 800 pounds, OR I can buy two Farish Voyagers in an incorrect livery with no DCC at all instead.

Hmmm, what to do?

John P

Whilst I totally agree with the sentiment let's be a bit fair here... Actually 16 mk5s and a 92 is nearer £1,000 (the coaches are £720), we don't know the livery is incorrect, it's just a curious description, and it'll be £340 in the shops.

@njee20 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1147)

I stand corrected. As I live in the US I see prices minus VAT, so you are quite right, not a fair comparison.

The 800 pounds would be around 960 once VAT is added back in.

Oh well!

John P

Ah yes, that makes sense. I still conceptually agree though - a sound fitted 92 and 7 mk5s is significantly cheaper than a pair of Voyagers!

With prices like these, is it going to reach the point where the market diminishes too much for it to be viable at all, given the number of people who will be unable (nor not prepared) to pay this much for a single model? Particularly in a case like this, where it's quite an old model anyway and one which seems to be generally regarded as adequate but no more.

Sadly it becomes an ever decreasing circle... due to small market the prices go up, this causes the market to shrink further and the prices go up and so on...

Paddy

It is my observation that Bachmann make very little effort to market and engage with their customers in the context of modern media.

Just consider the how the competition operate, Hornby are now very active with their public profile,  Hattons have regular YouTube updates, Revolution directly engage with their customers on forums such as this.

At shows Buchmann close their stand to all but their club members, just compare this to the open and welcoming stands that Hornby and Hattons operate, even Dapol have a better level of interaction.

My view is that Buchmann have a poor business culture, outdated business model and a level of arrogance which will see them decline in both N and 00. This is made worse with their high prices and restrictions placed on which retailers they will do business with.

There is a market out there it just needs simulated by engagement, profile and appropriate pricing

I have to agree with you about Bachmann's poor media presence, I have always found their customer service department very helpful but it's very difficult to get excited about any of their few new releases as they take so long to appear. This is a real shame because I think they do make very good products, just a few rather expensive ones.

It's quite a few years since I bought anything new from them, I've waited patiently until the locos I fancy are for sale second hand.

Quote from: Paddy on February 14, 2020, 12:19:00 PM
Possibly the model railway hobby (for new products) will go full circle in the years ahead and return to a rich man's hobby...

Paddy

I was stunned to recently discover the RRP of a Bachmann SMBP 14T tank wagon is £23.

Quote from: silly moo on February 16, 2020, 12:59:47 PM

It's quite a few years since I bought anything new from them, I've waited patiently until the locos I fancy are for sale second hand.

Likewise my collection is almost entirely pre-loved or built. As with second hand cars, depreciation can be your friend!

There's a bigger picture that's affected all our imports:

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/2947-160220132502.jpeg)

Twelve years ago a thing made elsewhere in the world valued at $US50 cost us £25 + 17.5% VAT = £29.37.

Today the same thing will cost us £38.46 + 20% VAT = £46.17, an increase of over 50%.

Average weekly pay last year was £474. This was the first time it exceeded the pre-downturn peak of £473 recorded in March 2008.

Personally I'm happy buying second hand and making/re-liverying what I can't, but I doubt even the most ardent collectors can carry on supporting such expensive suppliers indefinitely.

Mike

I have to say, that I too have started to enjoy creating my own rolling stock from older models.  They are in no way a match for RTR but they were made by my own hand and unique.

Maybe there is/will be a market for something like an N Gauge "RailRoad Plus" range?  Models where there is a lot less fitted details, simpler construction but excellent decoration and a top notch chassis.  I would certainly be interested especially as I am finding the finer details of modern N rolling stock are only visible at extreme close-up!

Each to their own though...  :D

Paddy

Quote from: Paddy on February 16, 2020, 02:23:16 PM
I have to say, that I too have started to enjoy creating my own rolling stock from older models.  They are in no way a match for RTR but they were made by my own hand and unique.

Maybe there is/will be a market for something like an N Gauge "RailRoad Plus" range?  Models where there is a lot less fitted details, simpler construction but excellent decoration and a top notch chassis.  I would certainly be interested especially as I am finding the finer details of modern N rolling stock are only visible at extreme close-up!
F
Each to their own though...  :D

Paddy

The market just isn't big enough to support several price/detail ranges.

Quote from: Paddy on February 16, 2020, 02:23:16 PM
Maybe there is/will be a market for something like an N Gauge "RailRoad Plus" range?  Models where there is a lot less fitted details, simpler construction but excellent decoration and a top notch chassis.  I would certainly be interested especially as I am finding the finer details of modern N rolling stock are only visible at extreme close-up!

Each to their own though...  :D

Paddy

We've done that topic so many times... In short, unless the presence of a second less detailed model increases the total sales to somewhere approaching double the current market, the loss of economies of scale in production could potentially mean the lesser specified model costs MORE than the current single spec models...

If the MK show I attended yesterday is anything to go by, the comparative dearth of locos, both steam and diesels available on both Cheltenham Models and Plus Daughters compared to times not so long ago (and wagons too) may suggest that supply issues are now starting to bite. I really do hope that Bachmann sort their act out even if it is to prioritise re-treads of existing tool models. People can't buy what isn't on the shelves.

Roy

Are there actually any updates for release dates?

I feel like I've been waiting for years... and I only got in to the hobby 18 months ago!

Quote from: Paddy on February 16, 2020, 02:23:16 PM

Maybe there is/will be a market for something like an N Gauge "RailRoad Plus" range?  Models where there is a lot less fitted details, simpler construction but excellent decoration and a top notch chassis.  I would certainly be interested especially as I am finding the finer details of modern N rolling stock are only visible at extreme close-up!

Each to their own though...  :D

Paddy

A bit like this? 🤔

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/2947-180220184721.jpeg)

;)

Mike

Older tooling, less accurate and less detailed but the price differential between Peco and Farish is now crazy.

For sure the Farish models are highly authentic and exquisitely modelled/decorated, but DOUBLE the price of Peco - really?? Someone is having a proper bubbly!

You can still pick up Farish wagons at bargain prices, but I'm mighty glad I have all I will ever realistically need now, buying any more will be just because they are interesting prototypes. A sobering thought that at list price a rake of 20 basic 16 tonners, still without NEM pockets will not see much change out of £400! Worth remembering when you value stock for exhibitions etc.

Roy

Quote from: maridunian on February 18, 2020, 06:50:06 PM

Quote from: Paddy on February 16, 2020, 02:23:16 PM

Maybe there is/will be a market for something like an N Gauge "RailRoad Plus" range?  Models where there is a lot less fitted details, simpler construction but excellent decoration and a top notch chassis.  I would certainly be interested especially as I am finding the finer details of modern N rolling stock are only visible at extreme close-up!

Each to their own though...  :D

Paddy

A bit like this? 🤔

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/2947-180220184721.jpeg)

;)

Mike

Hi Mike ( @maridunian (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2947) )

Absolutely and as you know I have been using the PECO wagons (and kits) to create my Weed Killing and Military trains for HOLLERTON JUNCTION.

In fact, there may well be a new instalment on the Military train tomorrow...

;)

Paddy

Quote from: Ted on February 18, 2020, 06:03:26 PM
Are there actually any updates for release dates?

I feel like I've been waiting for years... and I only got in to the hobby 18 months ago!

The old Farish website used to carry availability dates but the new site appears to have dispensed with that - I wonder why? :D

Also note that Dapol wagons are generally cheaper than Farish, although some are less detailed, inbetween Peco and Farish, they also sell unpainted wagons at a similar price as Peco kits

Quote from: Newportnobby on February 18, 2020, 09:35:41 PM

Quote from: Ted on February 18, 2020, 06:03:26 PM
Are there actually any updates for release dates?

I feel like I've been waiting for years... and I only got in to the hobby 18 months ago!

The old Farish website used to carry availability dates but the new site appears to have dispensed with that - I wonder why? :D

They're probably getting delivery dates which are hitting the Year 2038 problem (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem)

Availability dates are here in the ETA Column...

https://www.bachmann.co.uk/category/model-railway/graham-farish (https://www.bachmann.co.uk/category/model-railway/graham-farish)

The 8F was listed as Jul-20 but has now moved to Sep-20.