Graham Farish 370-275 DP1 Deltic Merseyside Express Set - Coaches Question

[Dalek]

Hi Guys

I have this set and was wondering what other coaches i should be getting to make it more of a prototypical length of train ? Not entirely sure what the coaches are that came with the set, tbh..

I'm a bit rubbish at knowing what i should be running. So if i wanted say a 7 coach train or longer, what else other coaches might there be in that train, preferably GF ones to match the ones that came with it which are  2 x Stanier BR Crimson & Cream coaches. Some pics might help  I'd be running as per end of steam/green diesel, era 5.

The Set


Coach with guards / Parcels area ? This would be at the rear of the train or would there be one at the front behind the engine as well ? or depending on length or train ? How many coaches would Dp1 normally be pulling anyway ?


Normal coach ? prior to mk1's


Cheers
Craig

[PLD]

You have ex LMS Period 3 coaches (referred to as "Staniers" as he was the CME at the time of their introduction but how much input he had to the overall design is open to some debate...)

You have a Brake Third Corridor (BTK) and a Third Corridor (TK) type. The most likely make up of a train with those is more Staniers. Mixing with MK1s is possible but was avoided as much as they could due to differing gangway connections.

Yes - a train of any length would most likely have a brake vehicle at both ends, so another BTK for the other end is a good start. Also you are lacking any first class accommodation so at least one First class (FK) or Composite coach is the next priority. (unfortunately Farish only do 57ft length Staniers so we're missing the 60ft Corridor Composite (CK) - the most common type - almost every train had one! so we'll have to make do with the less common Open Composite). Some catering provision is a probability - The LMS only built a think 4 Period 3 Buffets and they're not available RTR so a Mk 1 Buffet is next best. Then really more of the same TKs/FKs to suit the total length you want...

[Dalek]

Thanks for the reply @PLD

Would maroon and Crimson & Cream be mixed in the same train ? I'd guess so ?
Would there be any other types of coach, not Staniers in the same train ? Just been having a look at rails website, just to see what there was and i've found Hawksworth, Thompson & Bulleid as well as the Mk1's that you said wouldn't be used together due to the corridor connections being different.

I've been looking here https://railsofsheffield.com/search?Personalise=false&searchTerm=Brake+Third+Corridor&Gauge=N+Gauge&Era=4&Era=5&SortMethod=Relevance&page=1  Any chance of having a look and advising please ? Quite confusing this ! I want to try and run something thats more realistic rather then when i was a boy and they was just different coloured coaches   

Cheers
Craig

[AndyRA]

There's a nice picture of the Deltic dated 26th March 1958 hauling an Express for Liverpool in the book 'Diesel Pioneers'. It has 13 on, with what appears to be only three in crimson/cream, the  rest in maroon. Most are BR Mark 1 stock although it looks as if about four are Stanier types. Looks like Brake vehicles (BSK/BTK) marshalled 1st and 4th, the rear vehicle might be a Stanier Full Brake? Stanier type Restaurant Car possibly 8th in train?

Andy.

[tunneroner61]

It all depends on how accurate a train you wish to make up.

Yes Maroon and Crimson/Cream coaches could be mixed up.

It would be highly unlikely for DP1 to have hauled Hawksworth or Bullieds as it never operated on the WR or SR. When on the ER it could well have hauled Thompson coaches but not mixed with Staniers.

DP1 ran on the LMR from October 1955 till it was transferred to the ER in 1959 until engine failure forced it's withdrawl in March 1961.

The make up of the Merseyside express in 1954 (nearest date I can get to DP1 introduction) was BR MK1s in Crimson/Cream, except those marked S for Stanier:
BTK, TK, CK, TO(S), TO(S), Kitchen car (S), FO, FO, FK, BTK,TK,TK,CK,BTK.

(By 1963 the Merseyside Express was all Mk1s in Maroon.)

Farish do the Stanier BTK, TK, and FK. As @PLD has stated there is no rtr Stanier catering vehicle.
All the MK1s you would need were made by Farish, but whether they are still available is a moot point.

HTH Norman

[kerrcophony]

I've got one of these sets too.  I remember books from my childhood which had the DP1 in.  I saw it in the Science Musuem too, and the Farish model is outstanding.  Now I have settled on Kato track, I've toyed with the idea of selling the set on.  However, I reckon the DP1 would look terrific with a rake of maroon Mark 1s.  Then what would I do with the Staniers?  Would they be right for an early crest black BR steam loco?  Something like a Jinty?

[Railwaygun]

ive got the 2 staniers going spare if anyone is interested?

[Dalek]

ive got the 2 staniers going spare if anyone is interested?

What ones ?

[johnlambert]

I've got one of these sets too.  I remember books from my childhood which had the DP1 in.  I saw it in the Science Musuem too, and the Farish model is outstanding.  Now I have settled on Kato track, I've toyed with the idea of selling the set on.  However, I reckon the DP1 would look terrific with a rake of maroon Mark 1s.  Then what would I do with the Staniers?  Would they be right for an early crest black BR steam loco?  Something like a Jinty?

Don't do what I did; which was to sell the Stanier coaches that came with my Merseyside Express set, regret it and end up buying some new ones as replacements.  I also bought a Stanier BFK in crimson/cream to give a 3-coach train which could be a portion detached from a longer express working (BFK, SK, BTK).  I think the Graham Farish Fairburn 2-6-4 tank goes well with the Stanier coaches but they would be right for just about any early crest  BR steam loco.

DP1 looks magnificent with either maroon or crimson/cream stock, my favourite formation includes some Gresley coaches.

[Dalek]

I've got one of these sets too.  I remember books from my childhood which had the DP1 in.  I saw it in the Science Musuem too, and the Farish model is outstanding.  Now I have settled on Kato track, I've toyed with the idea of selling the set on.  However, I reckon the DP1 would look terrific with a rake of maroon Mark 1s.  Then what would I do with the Staniers?  Would they be right for an early crest black BR steam loco?  Something like a Jinty?

Don't do what I did; which was to sell the Stanier coaches that came with my Merseyside Express set, regret it and end up buying some new ones as replacements.  I also bought a Stanier BFK in crimson/cream to give a 3-coach train which could be a portion detached from a longer express working (BFK, SK, BTK).  I think the Graham Farish Fairburn 2-6-4 tank goes well with the Stanier coaches but they would be right for just about any early crest  BR steam loco.

DP1 looks magnificent with either maroon or crimson/cream stock, my favourite formation includes some Gresley coaches.

Hi, thanks for info. What Gresley coaches would that be ? A link to a shop would be even better then i can see how much they are 

Craig

[johnlambert]

Hi Craig,

I don't know if they are available new but here's a Dapol Gresley coach in maroon, second hand from Hattons.

http://www.hattons.co.uk/328059/Dapol_NC030B_LN04_Gresley_first_class_coach_in_BR_maroon_livery_E11020E_Pre_owned_Like_new/StockDetail.aspx

[Newportnobby]

I used to run mine with Farish crimson/cream Staniers and MK1s as seen here........
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e02ur62i8fbjm56/DP1%20on%20Kimbolted.MOV?dl=0

but I sold all those off and retain what I call plum & custard as seen on the left here........


I also run it with Dapol Gresleys in either carmine & cream or maroon such as these, although I don't know whether they are correct for the period

http://www.ngauge.org.uk/dap_pass_gresley.php

[Railwaygun]

ive got the 2 staniers going spare if anyone is interested?

What ones ?

the 2 in the DP-1 set( illustrated above)

offers welcome.

[Dalek]

ive got the 2 staniers going spare if anyone is interested?

What ones ?

the 2 in the DP-1 set( illustrated above)

offers welcome.

Hi, no idea what to offer, what do you want for them @Railwaygun ?

Drop me a PM please ?

Craig

[PLD]

Current going rate for mint boxed S/H Staniers seems to be in the £12-£16 range depending on livery and type (for a private seller) if that helps...