Sometimes Farish's steams are found on ebay, but some steams(like crimson Royal Scot or BR early green Tornado) are very hard to find.
Seems like Farish doesn't like re-release them...
Modern production is in batches. The UK market is small and doesn't warrant large batch sizes as you get for Japanese, US, European stuff.
Another batch won't be produced unless the company sees demand for it and can justify a production slot with the factory.
It's not always as simple as a re-run without changes: technology moves on, motors or other components may no longer be available and require a chassis redesign to accommodate something different. That can have high cost and again needs to be justified.
They do re-release the same locos but usually with new identities or different liveries rather than repeating exactly the same loco in the same condition. This appeals more to collectors and modellers who don't have confidence to renumber for themselves.
Tornado has been produced in each of the liveries the prototype has carried, and the A1 has been released with a few other identities.
The Maroon Royal Scot is an exception as it represents a one-off preservation era loco, because in original LMS service they only carried Maroon livery in the original parallel boiler condition, so there are no others they could do in maroon.
do the major manufacturers even think its just not worth making any more new-tooled UK steam outline locos ?
Are we facing a future where self-building or kit builds are the only way to get what we want ?
Quote from: Bigmac on March 22, 2024, 11:24:31 AMdo the major manufacturers even think its just not worth making any more new-tooled UK steam outline locos ?
Are we facing a future where self-building or kit builds are the only way to get what we want ?
You will only get what you want if there are a large number of people identified as creating a market for a supplier to fill.
Otherwise you have to seek alternatives.
There are many things I would want but know that they will never be produced by a manufacturer as there wouldn't be a big demand.
In these instances it may be a requirement to seek out enthusiasts that will allow you to commission a model which could be 3D printed to a desgin which would fit an available chassis from a manufacturer. It can be done.
Depends on how much you are willing to pay to get what you want.
GE
So you're saying I'll never see a Southern 4-6-0 from Farish nor Dapol?
Quote from: Bigmac on March 22, 2024, 11:24:31 AMAre we facing a future where self-building or kit builds are the only way to get what we want ?
Hi
For most things I want that is already the case.
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: PaulCheffus on March 22, 2024, 09:12:25 PMQuote from: Bigmac on March 22, 2024, 11:24:31 AMAre we facing a future where self-building or kit builds are the only way to get what we want ?
Hi
For most things I want that is already the case.
Cheers
Paul
Yep--me too.
So far this year ive hacked a Star, a 15xx shunting tank, and a County class. OK--not good enough for many modellers--but they pass my eyesight test. Next up will be a saint--when i can get a suitable cheap donor loco.
I get more satisfaction in creating a model-you-cant-buy from a cheap everyday model, than forking out well over £100 for a ready to go job that everone has got.
I hope I am wrong, but I do feel that it will be Sonic that will be the company that releases Steam in the future.
Along with a couple of 60 years plus friends, I feel that Dapol and Farish are now looking towards the younger generation, along with Revolution and their recent and forthcoming releases.
Quote from: trkilliman on March 23, 2024, 10:54:26 AMI hope I am wrong, but I do feel that it will be Sonic that will be the company that releases Steam in the future.
Along with a couple of 60 years plus friends, I feel that Dapol and Farish are now looking towards the younger generation, along with Revolution and their recent and forthcoming releases.
Unfortunately, I suspect that you are correct. Most potential customers are more likely to purchase what they currently see or remember having seen which, apart from preserved locos, will generally exclude steam along with many of the older diesel locos too.
I myself turned 60 this year and I cannot recall having seen any BR steam other than the Vale of Rheidol narrow gauge locos. The primary draw for me to model the steam era was very much the 20-odd years I spent working on a preserved railway where, for much of that time, diesel power was just the yard shunter.
As those of us who do prefer steam age and, eventually, pass on, the market potential will shift even more away from steam.
For the younger potential customers, I suspect the period that would interest them most is post-privatisation, with the multitude of liveries both from the different companies and from their changes of livery from time to time, gaudy though I think they are.
The big manufacturers will be well aware of what will sell and they will not very often produce things that will only have a small, and shrinking, market.
Quote from: Dorsetmike on March 22, 2024, 08:38:08 PMSo you're saying I'll never see a Southern 4-6-0 from Farish nor Dapol?
I am not saying you will never see one.
I am saying it is highly unlikely you will see one if there is no market in it for the major manufacturers.
GE
Actually not too worried, from hacking and kit bashing I've produced about a dozen SR 4-6-0s of 4 classes; doing a bit of mix and match between Langley S15 and BHE N15 plus different loco chassis, I've produced Urie and Maunsell versions of N15(king Arthur), H15 and S15 and a bit of hacking plus a BHE N15 tender will produce a Nelson from a Scot or Patriot (the Nelsons originally had the same tender as the Maunsell N15s, Bullied introduced the higher sided tender, as I model mid 1930s Bullied's influence is absent.)
Quote from: Dorsetmike on March 23, 2024, 09:10:28 PMBullied introduced the higher sided tender, as I model mid 1930s Bullied's influence is absent.)
I never realised Bulleid was bullied. Poor chap ;)
Farish just seem to be re-issuing steam with sound which interests me not one whit. Dapol have yet to give us the light pacifics and the Mogul so they're an unknown as regards new items.
Sonic are doing the more simple steam but may build up to something larger. RevolutioN appear to keep well away from complicated stuff so 'boxes on wheels' seems the norm (and my 128s are just awesome), and Rapido seem happy to knock out steam era wagons but no locos to run with them.
Quote from: chrism on March 23, 2024, 12:05:02 PMAs those of us who do prefer steam age and, eventually, pass on, the market potential will shift even more away from steam.
I think Chris is right, although the second hand market will blossom for a while as we shuffle off this mortal coil :worried:
Well all of this is nothing new. When I was a kid I'd read magazines and see model locomotives with LMS, LNER, Great Western and Southern written on them, and I desperately wanted them.
But look in the Triang and Hornby Dublo catalogues of the day, and all you will see are BR liveries - the modern image of the time.
These companies were aiming at the younger, toy market - kids. They (including me) would see the real thing regularly.
So nothing has really changed!
Dapol are still very much flying the flag for N Gauge steam with both the GWR Mogul and Bulleid Light Pacifics both underway and in tooling. There are a few other kettles in development that I cannot talk about yet, as well as planned upgrades to some of our older models.
In fairness to Farish, the last year or so I have noted new issues of (updated?) Black 5, Standard 5. Ivatt "Mickey Mouse" and 4F. I have had a new Std 5 but already have what I need of the others. For myself I am not likely to add any new release of previous locos to my "stud". Indeed I am thinning out, especially of duplicated Rule 1 items. I could be tempted by, say, a new Crab and perhaps under Rule 1 a Compound is they ever made them. My own interests are currently dominated on Northern Scotland.
I suspect, as others have suggested, steam is starting to become of less interest, and perhaps governed by what is preserved. Whereas c 20 years ago there was a ready market for the range of whitemetal kits, to run on the then simpler Farish chassis. I built a number over the decades as well as hacking kits and complete locos to give visually reasonable models of what I wanted - some examples in the NGS journal c 2 years ago. These days we are looking at 3D prints . Rudi Newman, of Newman Miniatures has produced a wide range of these. Eg, Clan, Glen, K1, K2 and K4. I have "built " a K2. But I had to source a whole Farish N Class at significant expense. Some fettling required. And removing the chassis of modern locos can be tricky = no longer a single 8BA screw and easy unhooking. And we have to think about weight/traction. Whitemetal bodies at least had the benefit of being heavy enough for the loco to pull a decent load! Followers of the Facebook Group page will have seen a photo of my resultant K2.
Yes it is inevitable that the hobby will change. I have been into it since I was 14, moving to N in my early 20s. And I am now 71. But one of my 2 small layouts can operate from early BR via green diesel to mid term blue diesel. The other is very definitely post Privatisation. Though the challenge there is keeping up with ownership and livery changes. If we are modelling the current scene we can easily find a recent purchase is out if date.
Quote from: Adam1701D on March 23, 2024, 10:46:01 PMDapol are still very much flying the flag for N Gauge steam with both the GWR Mogul and Bulleid Light Pacifics both underway and in tooling. There are a few other kettles in development that I cannot talk about yet, as well as planned upgrades to some of our older models.
That's good to know. We've already had the upgraded M7s and the upgraded Ivatt 2-6-2Ts are coming.
Quote from: Newportnobby on March 23, 2024, 10:07:00 PMQuote from: Dorsetmike on March 23, 2024, 09:10:28 PMBullied introduced the higher sided tender, as I model mid 1930s Bullied's influence is absent.)
I never realised Bulleid was bullied. Poor chap ;)
Farish just seem to be re-issuing steam with sound which interests me not one whit. Dapol have yet to give us the light pacifics and the Mogul so they're an unknown as regards new items.
Sonic are doing the more simple steam but may build up to something larger. RevolutioN appear to keep well away from complicated stuff so 'boxes on wheels' seems the norm (and my 128s are just awesome), and Rapido seem happy to knock out steam era wagons but no locos to run with them.
Quote from: chrism on March 23, 2024, 12:05:02 PMAs those of us who do prefer steam age and, eventually, pass on, the market potential will shift even more away from steam.
I think Chris is right, although the second hand market will blossom for a while as we shuffle off this mortal coil :worried:
Hmmm, interesting...
...I can wait a while.
Do you have a list? Asking for a friend.
any updates on the large prairie ? I thought it would be here by now.
Don't write off Farish - remember the SECR C class loco ?
It doesn't fit in with the rest of my rolling stock but I bought one, and I'm looking forward to the SECR wagons that I pre-ordered from somewhere.
People said there would never be an RTR Blue Pullman - Farish did it.
People said they would would never see the LMS twins in N gauge - Farish did it.
I predict that within 12 months Farish will do the 1500v dc Woodhead electric locos, and we will snap them.
As for steam, I reckon they will do an unrebuilt parallel boiler Royal Scot.
Quote from: joe cassidy on March 24, 2024, 09:26:49 PMI predict that within 12 months Farish will do the 1500v dc Woodhead electric locos, and we will snap them.
Hi
It would be nice but I don't think it will happen unfortunately.
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: Bigmac on March 24, 2024, 08:50:45 PMany updates on the large prairie ? I thought it would be here by now.
The large prairie is a Sonic project so not really relevant to a thread on Farish steam locos.
Quote from: tunneroner61 on March 24, 2024, 10:05:07 PMQuote from: Bigmac on March 24, 2024, 08:50:45 PMany updates on the large prairie ? I thought it would be here by now.
The large prairie is a Sonic project so not really relevant to a thread on Farish steam locos.
Nor is the previous dozen posts of speculation on new tooling relevant to the OP, which was specifically about re-runs of
existing locos... ::)
Just from the evidence available, Farish have re-released some of their steam locos, but being commercially "savvy" have recognised the need to upgrade even more recent models as part of this process to incorporate DCC sound. This costs money and takes time.
In addition there has been re-release of the Bachmann tooled tender-driven "Black five" without upgrade due no doubt to the loco's popularity and class-size. What is notable is the comparative price differential between it and the recent upgraded "Standard Five" which is only slightly more expensive. then there is the Fairburn Tank being delivered without upgrade towards the end of the year, and the tender-driven J39 sometime after that.
I feel quite sure further "upgrades" will be in the pipeline, and I would predict that logically the WD 2-8-0 and Duchess will feature in that process, as will most if not all of the other coreless-motored loco-drive tender locos with the exception (possibly) of the poor-selling streamlined Merchant Navy, but it will take time..
In terms of Market, it is very clear that steam remains popular, especially in what is still the most modelled the 1957-68 transition period, and this knocks on to preservation steam.
However (big "however") time is marching on, and quite simply there are more eras evolving, more choices to cover and so it is inevitable that steam in a relative sense will be a smaller part of that over all volume of available models that a manufacturer has to attempt to cover off.
Manufacturers will choose steam models they can get the best returns on, and those will be the ones with most technology/features thus ruling out some of the earlier BachFarish steam locos. Personally (and I have said this to Bachmann) I think it was a big mistake to sell further models of the Black Five from existing tooling. If one model justified the loco-drive upgrade and sound-treatment it was this one, and had they done that it would have flown off the shelves, but as it is I am not so sure, as it is competing even in their range with what is the BR equivalent "Standard 5" fully upgraded for very little extra money.
The real test for me is arrival of the next Farish "new tool" steam loco, this seems a bit overdue given that the last was plus 7 years ago, but as this is about re-releases I'll leave that for another discussion.
So, in conclusion I would say, do not write Bachmann steam off in any way, but don't expect a glut, expect a small regular flow (say one/two a year) of upgraded "new" type models from those where this is possible rather than a re-run of all earlier models released.
Roy
Looking at the new Journal, there's not a single steamer in the trade news and only 2 articles with steam content.
Hi guys.
I have been having a few thoughts.
Do you think manufacturers announce new locomotives just to stop other manufacturers from producing them and thus taking away potential sales and then just sideline them?
Should we have more poles, with specific categories to see what we would love to see on our model layouts? Just to give the manufacturers, if they are paying attention, a hint and nudge into what we want them to look into.
I did have a third thought but I've forgotten it now. Flippin ADHD!
I'll get back to you on the third one. :D
Rob.
Quote from: Jollybob on April 07, 2024, 08:48:29 PMDo you think manufacturers announce new locomotives just to stop other manufacturers from producing them and thus taking away potential sales and then just sideline them?
That's a suspicion that's been around for ever, and there probably is some truth in it - we've certainly seen that kind of announcement from time to time.
QuoteShould we have more poles, with specific categories to see what we would love to see on our model layouts? Just to give the manufacturers, if they are paying attention, a hint and nudge into what we want them to look into.
Honestly I think polls on forums such as this have no clout at all. Maybe established organisations such as The N Gauge Society have some influence, but more likely if the manufacturers approach the society with a request for a poll of the membership? You do occasionally see "which of these proposals would interest you?" polls on the web sites of some of the manufacturers, and such expressions of interest can influence production (or not).
Quote from: Jollybob on April 07, 2024, 08:48:29 PMDo you think manufacturers announce new locomotives just to stop other manufacturers from producing them and thus taking away potential sales and then just sideline them?
Conspiracy theories abound, but I don't think any manufacturer has ever announced a product having already decided they had no intention ever to make it... Some may be vague ideas thrown out to test the waters, then quietly dropped if there is little/no uptake (e.g. the Hattons Garratt, several DJM projects); in this case others benefit in that the market research is done for them and shows there isn't the demand. Others are clearly longer term projects that won't be delivered overnight but do appear eventually (most of the Revolution range).
As regard "announcements" they're damned if they do and damned if they don't... Announce too far in advance and they get criticised for the lead times... Leave it to last minute, we get cries of "we haven't had time to save up"... If they do hide it for too long, AN Other manufacturer could be too far into development and too heavily invested to back out, so w get two versions of a Class XYZ when had they know each other's plans one manufacturer could have switched to a Class XYA.
Quote from: Jollybob on April 07, 2024, 08:48:29 PMShould we have more poles, with specific categories
My favourite category of pole is "telegraph"... ;)
Steam was withdrawn the year i was born, my only experience of steam is on preserved railways and steam charters, steam models are inherently unrealistic as they dont realistically steam at 00 gauge never mind N, But steam is what i would want to model as steam locos with big wheels and rods are so much more interesting than something that is in effect a motorised carriage...