Pre orders

[kirky]

Development has generally taken at least 2 years (I know some have been quicker) though in the past it wasn't as obvious as things weren't announced in advance - with more players on the market all looking at a dwindling number of potential models it is hardly surprising that manufacturers want to stake a claim (the market is not big enough to support duplication of most models).

I think from our experience the frustrating thing is that those of us at this end do our bit as quickly as possible but then get delays in the factory e.g. any tooling changes or paint corrections etc don't happen immediately as other work has been started whilst waiting for approval. Having said which frustrating though it is waiting it is better to get it right than to rush things through for a self-imposed timescale.

Cheers, Mike

But the big difference between Revolution Trains and the likes of Bachmann and Dapol is that Revolution Trains have kept us informed every step of the way. Long periods of silence only lead to frustration and annoyance, whereas knowing that production is slower than expected because the print is more complex than first anticipated, for instance, is informative and reassuring. Very important as far as I am concrned.
Thanks
Kirky

[red_death]

For a small company like ours that relies on people's trust I think communication is vital. 

Having said which we are learning very quickly that putting timeframes on things only really sets you up to fail. You can only really be sure when something will arrive when it is in transit (or perhaps even landed in the UK and in your hands for distribution). So we will tell people very rough timescales and we will always publish what stage of the project we are at but I'm not going to guess when the Pendolino will arrive as the next sample is crucial - if it does everything it should then as I said we will start production immediately. It is a meaningless target (as it is more important that they are right) but it would be nice to get them here before end Jan 17 i.e. 2 years or so from when we properly started the research and design work!

Cheers, Mike

[Pengi]

Thank you Mike for your explanations. Whether or not Dapol/Farish are small companies is a moot point but it also helps explains delays. I am grateful for the regular communication on the Pendo   

[Bob Tidbury]

  Mike for keeping us informed on the progress,I was only joking when I said I Hope to get mine before I pop my clogs ,as you said yourself it's best to wait and get it right than do what seems to happen lately ,where we the customer seem to be doing the testing for the manufacturer and then they bring out the second batch with all the improvments that we have suggested .
In other words people who buy the first batch of a model are in effect paying for the development.
At least Revolution are testing and improving the Pendolinos BEFORE they go into production. One of the other manufactures actualy told me once that they only test new Locos on a large flat oval of track which is fine for new layouts to exhibition standard but what about people like me whose layout was built in 1980 with code 80 insulfrog points and one or two less than perfect sections of track.
We have seen that you do test on real layouts and post photos on here to prove it ,I have said to Ben your welcombe to come down one day and run the Pendolino for a day on my layout and if it runs round it for a day without problems then your on a winner .
THANKYOU TO YOU AND BEN FOR ALL THE WORK YOU PUT INTO REVOLUTION TRAINS IN YOUR OWN SPARE TIME.
We wait for the results and I'm positive it will be well worth it.

[Karhedron]

2017??
Dapol Battle of Britain 'Spitfire'

I am not convinced we will even see the Light Pacifics next year. Dapol mentioned on their Digest that they had been testing a new drive mechanism they wanted to used in the BoBs/WCs but they were disappointed with the results and have gone back to the drawing board. Looks like my Bulleid 3-car set will need to put up with 3MT haulage for a while longer.

As prices have risen and the economy become more wobbly, I don't really blame manufacturers for being cautious. They need to be able to sell at least 1000 units for a loco to be financially viable and more if they want to actually make a decent profit on it. Much of the low hanging fruit has been covered in the last 10 years since Dapol entered the market. Manufacturers are now eyeing less numerous classes more cautiously. Electrics and pre-grouping locos are possible but poor sales of the 4-CEPs and Desiros have put manufacturers off electrics (RevolutioN being the honourable exception ). Pre-grouping locos suffer from the risk of appealing to too small a group of modelers to be viable as a mass-produced product, especially in N gauge which does not sell in the volumes that 00 does.

[red_death]

They need to be able to sell at least 1000 units for a loco to be financially viable.

Pre-grouping locos suffer from the risk of appealing to too small a group of modelers to be viable as a mass-produced product, especially in N gauge which does not sell in the volumes that 00 does.

Matt

I think you make some really valuable points. Dorsetmike collared me at the NGS AGM and asked when we would make some pre-grouping steam locos - apart from Ben and my admitted ignorance about such things - my reaction was which one? With the implied question behind it being which one will sell 1000 models (or fewer but the prices will rise considerably). 

We all want what we are interested in but that doesn't transform it into a commercial prospect!

Cheers, Mike

[Snowwolflair]

The obvious one would be a City of Truro.  Easy valve gear and much asked for.

[JRS747]

The obvious one would be a City of Truro.  Easy valve gear and much asked for.

Here here!

[zwilnik]

The obvious one would be a City of Truro.  Easy valve gear and much asked for.

The "what next for Union Mills" thread also has City of Truro as an obvious one for them. Seeing as Revolution uses external manufacturers, it would seem to be an obvious team up opportunity?

[Snowwolflair]

The obvious one would be a City of Truro.  Easy valve gear and much asked for.

The "what next for Union Mills" thread also has City of Truro as an obvious one for them. Seeing as Revolution uses external manufacturers, it would seem to be an obvious team up opportunity?

I think outside frame is beyond Union Mills

[zwilnik]

The obvious one would be a City of Truro.  Easy valve gear and much asked for.

The "what next for Union Mills" thread also has City of Truro as an obvious one for them. Seeing as Revolution uses external manufacturers, it would seem to be an obvious team up opportunity?

I think outside frame is beyond Union Mills

Ah, but is it beyond Union Mills and Revolution teamed up? (the other issue would be whether the co-operative effort would give enough detail for Revolution's customer base)

[Karhedron]

I had hoped that Farish would scale down the 00 City of Truro. The Ivatt 2MT showed that they can get a decent drive mechanism into a small model but the silence has been deafening.

Maybe the problem is that most modelers would only buy 1 whereas they might buy multiple Halls etc. That might make enough of a difference to explain why it was considered viable in 00 gauge but possible not in N gauge.

Perhaps there is an opportunity for RevolutioN to work with Farish on City?

[Kris]

I am not convinced we will even see the Light Pacifics next year. Dapol mentioned on their Digest that they had been testing a new drive mechanism they wanted to used in the BoBs/WCs but they were disappointed with the results and have gone back to the drawing board. Looks like my Bulleid 3-car set will need to put up with 3MT haulage for a while longer.

I wonder if we will see Farish try to steal a march on the BoB/WC Light Pacifics?

[Karhedron]

I wonder if we will see Farish try to steal a march on the BoB/WC Light Pacifics?

Good question. Given the delays that have already happened, my guess is that they would have announced something before now if they were actually considering it.

Despite the family resemblance, there is relatively little work from the MNs that could be reused. The light pacifics had different dimensions, even wheelbase. The driving wheels and maybe the leading bogie could be reused but probably not much else.

Hornby make the light Pacifics in 00 so there is little scope for sharing the R&D across scales. Given that Dapol have staked their claim to the class, my hunch is that Farish will look at other prototypes for SR locos rather than getting into unnecessary competition.

[trkilliman]

Firstly I am the first to acknowledge that we all have our wish lists.

I do wonder how much research is put into what models people would like. It may come down to what you say Matt, which locos are likely to sell more than one to each customer.

IIRC, TPO coaches and stowage vans came out top of a poll/s, yet there are no plans that I am aware of for anyone to produce them.

The recently announced car-flats from the NGS are a really good choice, and I am sure they will sell well as have the previous NGS exclusives. Not something I can utilise on an early 1950s layout, but others may well be salivating.

With 6,000 members I do wonder if it would be possible to have 2 or three RTR exclusive N.G.S. projects of different eras under development at the same time. Would this be feasible, or would the workload be too much for what are volunteers?

I ask this with the best of intentions. I'm thinking off the top of my head that if the lead in times are similar more members can be catered for and items sold within a given timeframe.

Maybe I am way off the mark here, but I'm sure those in the know will let me know...!
(apologies if this is posted in the wrong section)