Farish or dapol

[ParkeNd]

Something up to VW or Audi quality standards.

I wouldn't go using VW as a quality benchmark May have been a few years ago but hearing some of the horror stories from a professional mechanic friend of mine they seem to have gone WAY down, same with Mercedes.

Haven't heard too many bad quality comments about Audi yet though


Paul

May just be the difference between hearing about old ones and currently owning the second new one Paul.

[Sprintex]

Three year old VWs with chassis rails full of water as just one example?


Paul

[Pengi]

Interesting as this is (and I have a VW car  ), this is taking us 

[Roy L S]

I think that  tbh that both makes are becoming too expensive . and whilst their are a number of reasons why . I as a 17 year old have a very slim budget to use , would rather see that farish use some of their older molds to bring out some budget stock , much like hornby railroad . i would spend £45-50 on an older farish 47 that looks like one and runs well . but that is me . 

I believe this has been discussed previously.

While I do understand how this might help those on tighter budgets, I doubt they could actually produce the "old" models significantly cheaper than the new,  the recent heavy discounting of the older models (Like Class 25) by some retailers should not necessarily be taken as an expectation of this.

For example the old Class 25 is still listed at Bachmann for £94.05 and the new yet to be released ones will be £99.95 (£10 more if weathered). I suspect production and assembly costs would be little different between old and new and shipping etc identical.

Probably also true to say that for a while we were spoiled by relatively cheap prices (in real terms copmpared to previously)and being able to buy more.

Like Alan I can remember a time when a new loco was more of an annual happening and something I had to save for!

Roy



The volumes involved and limited production runs and if you compare

[Les1952]

A year or so ago I would unhesitatingly have voted Dapol as I had a string of poor farish locos one after the other.  Nowadays it is "equal" or "neither" as the WD has done a lot to restore my confidence.  Some comments on recent loco purchases.

Dapol
A3s (now seven in service with an eighth coming) Only one problem- a valve gear bounced and broken in transit- no problem getting it fixed.  The two I have fitted chips into run beautifully.  Only comment is that the chimney didn't come off too well so the single-double conversion I did had to have a whitemetal chimney which is a little anaemic.
A4s (two), both run beautifully, both now chipped. 
B1s (three) again, all run well.  One had a circuit-board transplant from an NQP after getting a little smelly.  Two now DCC fitted and running smoothly and quietly.
Pannier (one) rods on one side upside down.  Runs OK analogue but too lumpy on DCC so now analogue again- as is my Farish 4MT for the same reason.
Bo-Bo diesels (two) one good and one which failed spectacularly at Wigan show pouring smoke out of the cab to entertain an good number of punters.  Now fixed under warranty.
Of the older locos B17s are running well, but two out of four 9Fs don't like my fiddle yard despite all having centring springs.

Farish
3MT tanks (2) one sheared the front pony mount in a low speed derailment and went for a replacement to BR Lines.  The other needs to go as it is now totally dead.
2MT runs beautifully but has the same problems with my fiddle yard (and that of Rise Park) as the 9Fs, so now runs tender first at all times.
Bo-Bo diesels (three) no problems with any of them.
Co-Co diesels (two)- one blew a decoder- on investigating there was stray solder on the underside of the PCB by the 6-pin socket.
WDs (two) One fine in all respects.  The other one also blew a decoder with exactly the same problem as the Class 37.  This one is also apparently down at the front (either that or Farish modelled it with a taper boiler).
J39- apart from needing renumbering as the Farish model never had a late crest loco is excellent in all respects.  My best tender-drive Farish by a large margin.
DMUs (three) all run well but when I tried to take the body off the Class 101 for chipping the glazing had been glued to the chassis more firmly than to the body.  A Bachmann empolyee on their stand showed me how to get the body off without breaking too much of the glazing- this fault apparently isn't that uncommon.....
D9555 (one) developing a wobble but still runs well.

I'm expecting another A3 (with sound) and a Bittern from Dapol and an A2 and Fairburn from Farish, so honours even there.   

No doubt others have different experiences to recount.

I will say, however, that the TOTAL sales of N-gauge locos of any UK type aren't big enough to iron-out random statistical variations.  One over-tired assembler on a production run can muck up a high percentage of any batch of either manufacturer.......

All the very best
les

[Caz]

A very well balanced and informative reply, thanks for posting Les, most interesting reading. 

[Bealman]

Yep, agree. Very informative. Thanks, Les! 

[Bealman]

Just to add to that - I am also impressed with your conclusion in the last paragraph. I'd never thought of that... but it sounds feasible to me! 

[Dr Al]

I will say, however, that the TOTAL sales of N-gauge locos of any UK type aren't big enough to iron-out random statistical variations.  One over-tired assembler on a production run can muck up a high percentage of any batch of either manufacturer.......

Maybe, but we're paying them to do it correctly....

Cheers,
Alan

[ParkeNd]

I will say, however, that the TOTAL sales of N-gauge locos of any UK type aren't big enough to iron-out random statistical variations.  One over-tired assembler on a production run can muck up a high percentage of any batch of either manufacturer.......

Maybe, but we're paying them to do it correctly....

Cheers,
Alan

Couldn't agree more. Shipping quantities and the quantities made in one production run may be quite different. "Batch of 1" is becoming quite prevalent in manufacturing because you can make a much wider range of products within a day. Long setup times can be engineered out and work measurements like "efficiency" are now seen to be worthless - it's not smart to make more than anyone needs and this just ramps up leadtimes beyond belief.

So maintaining quality needs only to be over say 10 units before errors or badly fitting components are flagged up by the operator. And this is all about instilling a quality ethos in the workforce in every department. Even getting the parts to the lines on time so that manufacturing isn't tempted to build "derelicts" that they forget to retrofit - like my Dapol Hall with no drive shaft.

Moving production around from one cheap economy to another is real enemy of quality.

We deserve no less in 2014 than being able to get the product out of the box and for it to work first time every time.

[BobB]

I was watching a DVD about steam trains in Lancashire and Yorkshire yesterday evening and was remembering the adverse comments about grey locomotive wheels on Dapol steamers. The wheels definitely looked more mid to dark grey than black on most of the locomotives so maybe Dapol were right and the modellers are wrong ?

Of course this will not influence the running characteristics.

[Dr Al]

I was watching a DVD about steam trains in Lancashire and Yorkshire yesterday evening and was remembering the adverse comments about grey locomotive wheels on Dapol steamers. The wheels definitely looked more mid to dark grey than black on most of the locomotives so maybe Dapol were right and the modellers are wrong ?

No, Dapol were wrong. The wheels were painted black - if dirt or lighting conditions made them look different then so be it - but I'd rather replicate that with appropriate weathering.

Cheers,
Alan

[Bealman]

I will say, however, that the TOTAL sales of N-gauge locos of any UK type aren't big enough to iron-out random statistical variations.  One over-tired assembler on a production run can muck up a high percentage of any batch of either manufacturer.......

Maybe, but we're paying them to do it correctly....

Cheers,
Alan

Couldn't agree more. Shipping quantities and the quantities made in one production run may be quite different. "Batch of 1" is becoming quite prevalent in manufacturing because you can make a much wider range of products within a day. Long setup times can be engineered out and work measurements like "efficiency" are now seen to be worthless - it's not smart to make more than anyone needs and this just ramps up leadtimes beyond belief.

So maintaining quality needs only to be over say 10 units before errors or badly fitting components are flagged up by the operator. And this is all about instilling a quality ethos in the workforce in every department. Even getting the parts to the lines on time so that manufacturing isn't tempted to build "derelicts" that they forget to retrofit - like my Dapol Hall with no drive shaft.

Moving production around from one cheap economy to another is real enemy of quality.

We deserve no less in 2014 than being able to get the product out of the box and for it to work first time every time.

Sometimes I don't believe I'm reading this stuff. We are playing trains, and if any contributor to this forum can do better, perhaps they can start up their own business and try themselves.

I know I wouldn't even think about it (nor do I have the resources to do so).... BUT - there are folk on here who are established NGS foundation members, and small industries catering for N gauge modellers also advertise their own products here.

Negative comments like the above don't get this hobby anywhere.

George

[GWR-Kris]

Sometimes I don't believe I'm reading this stuff. We are playing trains, and if any contributor to this forum can do better, perhaps they can start up their own business and try themselves.

I know I wouldn't even think about it (nor do I have the resources to do so).... BUT - there are folk on here who are established NGS foundation members, and small industries catering for N gauge modellers also advertise their own products here.

Negative comments like the above don't get this hobby anywhere.

George

So your basically saying to us that we should accept the quality issues and move on, and continue to recieve products that either dont work out the box, break within a week, bits missing, etc.

Its not about if we start a business and try do better, all we are asking is the manufacturer to sort their issues out. I assme you think it would be perfectly acceptable to buy a car that doesnt work when you collect it from a dealer?

I expect to receive a model loco to give me atleast 12month reliable service, I understand there maybe certain defects from time to time, but when I have purchased 10+ locos from Dapol and only 2 has given me no issues, i do not see this as acceptable.

[Dr Al]

Sometimes I don't believe I'm reading this stuff. We are playing trains, and if any contributor to this forum can do better, perhaps they can start up their own business and try themselves.

If you're paying for it, it really doesn't matter if you're "playing trains". These are not insignificant amounts of money being paid for items that have all the various reported problems. I don't think it's unreasonable to desire better.

Negative comments like the above don't get this hobby anywhere.

To a point - but noting failures, reasons, and most crucially having the constructive criticism of cures for them is useful for raising standards IMHO, as well as helping those with similar problems on their models overcome them.

Cheers,
Alan