Farish or dapol

[Dr Al]

The tank engine emitted a fair bit of smoke as well, which was a nice effect, but probably not good for the motor.

That's overheating due to something tight in the mechanism or a weakening magnet - don't run it until sorted or burn out'll occur!

Cheers,
Alan

[Richey1977]

I figured it would.

I ebayed it to someone who has the time and techniques to sort it, and got back the £20 I paid in the first place.  I'm more interested in building scenery and details than fiddling with motors.

I'm tempted by Dapol's Class 121 and 58.  The 121 would look quite appropraite for the layout I'm building, and my first ever model train was the Hornby 58, and I always liked it's outline.  Bit strapped for cash at the moment anyway, so it's a moot point.  Its seems the beer fairy, whilst getting me safely home by train from the pub the other night, also accessed my eBay mobile app, and purchased a Graham Farish 'Depot Master' train set.  Naughty fairy. 

[EtchedPixels]

returns under warranty ? , new 2-8-8-4 mallet from backy I had it 3 days they've had it nearly 2 months !
Barwell says working with in tollerances - but we have no wheels to fix it - and yet they wont exchange it for another loco .

So get them to return it, at their cost, and refund any postage you paid (since they can't fix it in breach of their warranty, and then return it to the shop as unfit for purpose at their expense)

And if they or the shop argue go to your card company.

They get away with this crap because people don't actually force them to follow basic sale of goods rules.

Alan

[EtchedPixels]

It's also been stated before by both Bachmann and Dapol that because there are so many companies using the same limited

Bachmann own the factory, or rather the factory owns Bachmann.

Dave Jones said there was no backlog at the factory Dapol was using ... on rmweb

production facilities in China it's a case of "those that shout loudest with the biggest orders get manufacturing time first".

Not in my experience they work like everywhere else

- if you are a customer with a good personal relationship and pay well you get good service. The relationship is key. Thats why I think losing Dave will really hurt Dapol. Your "man in China" is a critical part of the business if you are an independent using a Chinese producer.

- if you are a pain the butt and pay peanuts you get monkeys

Chinese factories range from precision assembly to ISO quality standards with people who will deliver the product specified to the leter of the specification on the day specified through to ten blokes on the back of a warehouse who will be a lot cheaper.

Alan

[EtchedPixels]

I wonder what the true actual cost difference is manufacturing in Europe rather than the far east. For higher wages we can balance lower distribution costs and easier communications. However, would such a move (if reasonably economic) solve the quality issues ?

Costing is hard but local production does solve quality issues for multiple reasons

1. You can see and act on a problem very rapidly (something the car industry learned from Japan and 'just in time' production)

2. The people working for you are on the same side. If someone 3000 miles away agreed to a job then they may not want to suddenly change the spec and its a lot of hassle, whereas your own staff are depending on the same company to keep getting paid

Peco produce their models in the UK.

[EtchedPixels]

Final comment now I'm catching up on a very long thread

One way you do quality is not to keep changing things. Comparing Union Mills to Dapol is in some ways a false comparison. Union Mills does one thing right. Every loco is built to the same basic mechanism in the same way. It's been refined from the early models (some of which could be a bit dodgy) year in year out until the tender drive unit has achieved engineering zen (by which I mean not that there is nothing that needs adding but that there is nothing less to take away).

Solving the same problem repeatedly is much much easier. Look how reliable Farish and Dapol wagons and coaches are.

[Chatty]

Alan

Not that I wanted to enter into this discussion but your last three posts are absolutely correct.

I was for a number of years involved at a Government level in international trade and the relationship with your Chinese manufacturer is critical.

I think I will leave it at that.

Kind regards

Geoff

[Chatty]

Make that the last four posts.

[ParkeNd]

I wonder what the true actual cost difference is manufacturing in Europe rather than the far east. For higher wages we can balance lower distribution costs and easier communications. However, would such a move (if reasonably economic) solve the quality issues ?

Costing is hard but local production does solve quality issues for multiple reasons

1. You can see and act on a problem very rapidly (something the car industry learned from Japan and 'just in time' production)

2. The people working for you are on the same side. If someone 3000 miles away agreed to a job then they may not want to suddenly change the spec and its a lot of hassle, whereas your own staff are depending on the same company to keep getting paid

Peco produce their models in the UK.

This point always annoyed me as a Logistics Manager. Purchasing make decisions based on prices at the factory gate no matter where that factory gate is. A global % transport cost is then assumed for all items. There is no allowance for Logistics costs or the cost of resolving a quality problem with people who don't talk your language and who work when you are supposed to be in bed. And if you want to increase your order size or bring the delivery date forward a week then air freight at your expense is on the table in the first few seconds.

Power without responsibility. That's Purchasing and their sourcing decisions. Maybe some companies are starting to say "Oh yeah- didn't think of that. Let's move it back to Birmingham"

[Leo1961]

I wonder what the true actual cost difference is manufacturing in Europe rather than the far east. For higher wages we can balance lower distribution costs and easier communications. However, would such a move (if reasonably economic) solve the quality issues ?

Costing is hard but local production does solve quality issues for multiple reasons

1. You can see and act on a problem very rapidly (something the car industry learned from Japan and 'just in time' production)

2. The people working for you are on the same side. If someone 3000 miles away agreed to a job then they may not want to suddenly change the spec and its a lot of hassle, whereas your own staff are depending on the same company to keep getting paid

Peco produce their models in the UK.

This point always annoyed me as a Logistics Manager. Purchasing make decisions based on prices at the factory gate no matter where that factory gate is. A global % transport cost is then assumed for all items. There is no allowance for Logistics costs or the cost of resolving a quality problem with people who don't talk your language and who work when you are supposed to be in bed. And if you want to increase your order size or bring the delivery date forward a week the air freight at your expense is on the table in the first few seconds.

Power without responsibility. That's Purchasing and their sourcing decisions. Maybe one companies are starting to say "Oh yeah- didn't think of that. Let's move it back to Birmingham"

This is happening more and more 

We have had a manufacturing plant in Shanghai for 9 years and are only now seeiing that the total cost of quality has meant that the supposed "cost reductions" are almost totally fictitious.

Production is now being brought back to Coventry whilst raw material sourcing is being moved to India...

[ParkeNd]

I wonder what the true actual cost difference is manufacturing in Europe rather than the far east. For higher wages we can balance lower distribution costs and easier communications. However, would such a move (if reasonably economic) solve the quality issues ?

Costing is hard but local production does solve quality issues for multiple reasons

1. You can see and act on a problem very rapidly (something the car industry learned from Japan and 'just in time' production)

2. The people working for you are on the same side. If someone 3000 miles away agreed to a job then they may not want to suddenly change the spec and its a lot of hassle, whereas your own staff are depending on the same company to keep getting paid

Peco produce their models in the UK.

This point always annoyed me as a Logistics Manager. Purchasing make decisions based on prices at the factory gate no matter where that factory gate is. A global % transport cost is then assumed for all items. There is no allowance for Logistics costs or the cost of resolving a quality problem with people who don't talk your language and who work when you are supposed to be in bed. And if you want to increase your order size or bring the delivery date forward a week the air freight at your expense is on the table in the first few seconds.

Power without responsibility. That's Purchasing and their sourcing decisions. Maybe one companies are starting to say "Oh yeah- didn't think of that. Let's move it back to Birmingham"

This is happening more and more 

We have had a manufacturing plant in Shanghai for 9 years and are only now seeiing that the total cost of quality has meant that the supposed "cost reductions" are almost totally fictitious.

Production is now being brought back to Coventry whilst raw material sourcing is being moved to India...

Thank heavens that half the problem is being fixed. Now that raw material - is it indigenous to India or can it come from at least an EU country?

[Leo1961]

Thank heavens that half the problem is being fixed. Now that raw material - is it indigenous to India or can it come from at least an EU country?

We source from all over the world, but anything with much labour content struggles to be competitive if it is made with the EU.

And we can't really be totally hypocritical as over 95% of our output is exported 

[pape_timmo]

A caption on a picture I had a copy of many years ago stated

"The Boss is like a nappy, always up your (posterior) and full of..."

You can guess the rest.

Cheers, Timmo

[daveg]

Interesting that Hatton's are quoting January 2014 for the delivery of Dapol's A4 Sir Nigel Gresley. I have one on pre-order.
http://www.ehattons.com/stocklist/results.aspx?searchfield=2S-008-002

I checked availability with Liverpool last and they advised there's is no news but they hope it may arrive.

Using the part number on the Hatton's site (2S-008-002) I searched Dapol's to see if there's any news. The number isn't recognised!
http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=product/isearch&filter_name=2S-008-002

Most odd but I'm sure there's a reason/excuse somewhere along the line! 

Dave G