Spraying in cool/cold weather.

[RailGooner]

Nicely done.

[exmouthcraig]

They look spot on Mike 

Hopefully today goes well, I'll definitely be treating myself to some of these Railtec rivets.

These results are just pure rattle cans rather then airbrush?

[Chuffington]

A mini greenhouse costs about £15 and with the addition of a small heater you can warm up the inside along with your spay can and it also works as a spray booth. Packs away easily when you have finished with it.

[emjaybee]

Gutted.

I don't know how else to put it.





It seemed to be going okay, a warm environment, just warm in the drying cover. Same as yesterday. Results are as you see.

It was only after that I think I realised what the problem is. Railtec suggest that you put the decals on a gloss surface, this we all know. Trouble is, the grey I laid on today was grey primer, over the gloss lacquer. I think this is what caused the fractured/wrecked paint. So, it's back to the drawing board, off come the 100's of rivets and it's going to have to have a damn good sanding prior to any more work.

I'm going to have to do some more experimental tests before I head into the spray booth with these wagons again.

If anyone has a different take on what may have caused this please let me know.

I'll keep you posted.

:'(

They look spot on Mike 

Hopefully today goes well, I'll definitely be treating myself to some of these Railtec rivets.

These results are just pure rattle cans rather then airbrush?

Yes, all my spraying is Halfords (mainly) rattle cans. I don't think this problem was the paint, I think this was a procedural issue.

[exmouthcraig]

 

That's devastating Mike if your going to have to start again!!!!!!!

I totally agree with the reasons behind the paint, but I wouldnt be too quick to start tearing it all apart.

I'd be tempted to cut a square hole from the lid of a peco wagon box to a mil narrower then the gap between  the rivets. Tape that to the wagon and using a fibreglass pencil rub the paint down, do 1 panel at a time, the lid will allow the pencil to rub the whole panel without taking the rivets off.

Once the crazing has been flatted I'd prime again and see what happens.

The rivets weren't glossed so only primer on them. It's got to be worth a punt

[emjaybee]

I may try that. It's actually not that daunting to sand all the rivets and primer back. I think it may actually be quicker in the long run to sand back and restart. I've go to look again at the SR Leader project on here, @AR seemed to lay the rivets over primer and it seemed to work for them. I'm going to have a practice putting them on over matt primer and see how much they can be moved when you first lay them on.

Oh well,  happens.

Bloody cross with myself that primer over gloss lacquer must be the only combination of my cans that I haven't tested out.

[RailGooner]

I know the pain Michael, especially when you've tested and trialled.

On the next one try following the decals with a light covering of the same gloss lacquer as the base. When dry and hardened, wash briefly with cold water. When dry, apply a very light covering of base colour, not primer - very light, like just a dusting, a single pass and if you don't get a solid covering that's a good thing. If that covering is light enough it'll be touch dry in seconds - but obviously don't touch! After 30 minutes, repeat, cycle, repeat, until you've got a reasonable solid covering - 3-4 passes should do it. Let that dry and harden for 24 hours before continuing.

[geoffc]

It would appear that the primer has reacted with the varnish, try using a light coat Precision Paints paint stripper and see if it removes the primer only. If not strip the model with PP paint stripper. I would always use paint from the same manufacturer and the same type, i.e., enamel or acrylic.

Geoff

[thebrighton]

Just wondering if you were mixing paint mediums. The only time I had very similar results was when I sprayed acrylic over enamel and it took 2-3 disasters to suss out that was the issue. Enamel over acrylic has never been a problem.

[njee20]

What a pain, looks like acrylic paint (the Halfords primer) over enamel. The other way around should be ok, but I'd be very cautious doing it that way. I also trashed some finished models with acrylic varnish before I realised it was a problem.

Edit: Geoff and Gareth said the same thing whilst I was waiting to hit save! 

[emjaybee]

@RailGooner the grey is my base colour, grey primer is spot on for LMS grey.

@geoffc, @thebrighton, @njee20, all the paint is acrylic. I'm aware of the issues regarding mixing paint types which is why I've been careful to only use acrylic. The gloss lacquer was laid on weeks ago. The model has also not been touched by human hands since it was washed back then, gloves hands only.

I think if I use paint stripper it'll take off all the rivets, and potentially the filler used on the body to reshape it.

It was Halfords acrylic primer over a acrylic gloss lacquer, which was from Halfords although NOT Halfords branded.

My usual paint method is:

Two light coats Halfords grey primer.
Two light coats acrylic gloss lacquer. (From Halfords, not Halfords branded)
Decals.
Two light coats acrylic satin lacquer. (From Halfords, not Halfords branded)

That has given me no issues over a dozen wagons. My gut feel is the problem is primer over gloss lacquer.

I'll be trying a load of test pieces; a, to try to replicate the problem, b, to try to find a solution.

If I can get the decals to apply successfully over the grey primer I shouldn't have a problem. @AR did it that way on his Leader project. I'd like to ask him, but he hasn't been on the forum for two months.

Thanks for the feedback, keep it coming.

[PaulCheffus]

Hi

I've sprayed enamel over acrylic and acrylic over enamel without any issues. The key is how long you leave the previous paint to dry. I tend to leave for at least a couple of days.

Cheers

Paul

[emjaybee]

Hi

I've sprayed enamel over acrylic and acrylic over enamel without any issues. The key is how long you leave the previous paint to dry. I tend to leave for at least a couple of days.

Cheers

Paul

That's my understanding also. This is acrylic over acrylic with about four weeks between gloss lacquer and grey primer.

[RailGooner]

..
My usual paint method is:

Two light coats Halfords grey primer.
Two light coats acrylic gloss lacquer. (From Halfords, not Halfords branded)
Decals.
Two light coats acrylic satin lacquer. (From Halfords, not Halfords branded)

That has given me no issues over a dozen wagons. My gut feel is the problem is primer over gloss lacquer.
...

That seems a sound process. Can you confirm you followed that process with the problem wagon, or did you omit the satin lacquer step?

I would expect that applying that process followed by very light coverings (per my previous post) of your primer should yield a satisfactory result.

Personally I will only ever cover the base model with primer and never cover a colour with primer. I've always followed that as a rule. I can't recall when/why I adopted that (probably when I started using acid-etch primers,) but it's never let me down so I've never reviewed it. At times I've been tempted, finding like you that my primer is a perfect match for the colour I need. I think what you're proving here is what we all know already: what works for one ain't necessarily going to work all.

[thebrighton]

Thinking about it I don't think I've ever sprayed primer over gloss. I can't remember the last time I used gloss, I always give my models a coat of Johnsons Klear to help transfers. I suppose rivet transfers are one of those exceptions where you apply then early on rather than towards the end of a build like normal transfers.