Electrics Don't Sell...?

[gc4946]

I would have thought that the 2/4 EPB would have sold as well.  Don't know how well the OO 2EPB sold anyone know?  Still want another 465 unit(s) but I know that it is limited in its appeal - so am not expecting a commercially available RTR model

A Liverpool box-shifter has the all blue and the blue/grey 2EPBs heavily discounted with the green version costing more.
The blue/grey type represents a post-1989 version with sealed headlights, NSE "Kent Link" stickers and red stripe above the compartments.
On the other hand the Collectors' Club NSE liveried limited edition of 504 pieces sold out pretty quickly.

A 2HAP would have been more popular as they reached further out of London down to the coast compared with the 2EPBs (I would have bought a pair if available)

[ParkeNd]

I can understand this to an extent. In the steam era they were just plain boring. We would stand on Brentwood Station as Gresley A4 Pacifics blasted through and when it came to our turn to get on a train it was always a boring green electric thing with big yellow bell pushes by the door. When we got to Surrey it was the same story - Bulleid Pacifics to get you fired up - and another boring green electric thing with yellow buttons to actually ride in.

After all that disappointment who can be surprised model ones don't sell?

When I was growing up, what was left of the steamers were laid up and rusting in sidings or leaking sheds!  There was nothing better than seeing a working EMU flying through the stations on our journey home! 

I was born 1947 so aware of trains say 1952 at age 5. Steam trains still in service on passenger trains in 1963 when I last travelled home by steam train (Cranleigh Snail as far as Guilford) when 16 years old.

[Bmthtrains]

I don't think it is as simple a case as 'electrics don't sell', rather that they don't sell well enough yet.

Give it another ten years and you will see them in abundance - the popular modelling eras are slowly moving forward as nostalgia creep works it's way through the decades. Transition and blue periods are rising as these are the areas the bulk of the hobbyists remember - which seems to be about 45 years in the past (matches typical age of a railway modeller's childhood), so by 2025 we should see plenty of interest in the 1989s scene, of which electrics are a major part.

David

[Ben A]

Good thread.

Dapol Class 86s are one of the finest models of an electric loco in any scale, and yet 250 blue ones - in two different numbers - haven't sold out at the retailer who commisioned them.  Pretty much all variants of the 86 can still be bought.

All variants of the 4-CEP and 350 are still in stock in Bachmann's warehouse.

The 4-CEP was chosen because it is a good fit with transition steam/diesel era; the 350 because it's attractive, widespread, not as complex as a Pendolino (far fewer bodyshells needed) and the manufacturer and TOC were cooperative.

Dapol have done easy, cheap and good looking catenary posts.  Yes, gantries still have to be kit built (and N brass offer a fine range) but they're pretty straightforward and easy to paint.

There is good quality Mk2 and Mk3 coaching stock along with appropriate DVTs. There are plenty of wagons.

There isn't a Pendolino but 350s operate in plenty of areas where Pendolinos are uncommon - Northampton loop,  numerous lines in the West Midlands.  The "pretendolino" rake is available.  Or run a Virgin Voyager and pretend it's a Pendolino with a little imagination!

I think sometimes we just have to be realistic in our expectations and maybe accept that enthusiasts have a part to play in growing the hobby as much as manufacturers by supporting them as they go.

cheers

Ben A.

[gc4946]

The 350s have been discounted lately especially the Silverlink version.
However, if they reappeared in the range as the South West Trains class 450 it'll generate more sales because they run alongside intermodal and other freight services. I could see quite a few layouts based in "somewhere in Hampshire and/or Dorset" which feature 450s, Cross Country, Freightliner, DBS and other private and charter operators.

Although vinyls are available from Electra for the above, most would prefer a mass-market RTR version.
Apart from removing the pantograph, the biggest issue is getting permission from SWT to reproduce their livery.

With the privatisation era, the main issue is not only getting permission from the TOC for reproduction, but also paying for the right to do so.
Fox Transfers ran into this issue so they had to stop selling DBS/EWS transfers.

[joe cassidy]

My layout is LMS themed, but under "Rule 1" I would buy one of the BR bo-bo LM region electric locos in the original blue/white livery.

I think that this could be a winner in the same way that the prototype Deltic and Blue Pullman have been succesful.

Best regards,


Joe

[gc4946]

Anything that stands out distinctively, livery wise, in the 1960s transition era, could be strong sellers, electric loco and multiple unit candidates below:

AL1-AL5 (class 81-85) electrics
original Glasgow "Blue Trains" (class 303)
Clacton EMUs (class 309) in maroon

[Adam1701D]

Model Rail magazine are doing a limited edition of the SWT Class 450 in OO, using the existing Bachmann 350 as a base, minus roof fittings. I predict it will be a big hit.

[Pengi]

I also think that electrics will sell if they made the right ones

E.g IMHO they chose the wrong Desiro - there are a lot more 450s than 350s on the Big Railway (plus, of course, it is SWT  ). The 350 is a nice model though.

I am hopeful that Arnold might decide to shrink the Hornby Pendolino - a truly beautiful iconic train and also much liked my kids (of which I am one - if a little old ).

After the success of the Olympics, maybe Kato might convert it's white sonic into a Javelin? 

[Buzzard]

Apart from removing the pantograph

That modification would be unnecessary as the Electric Spine project will see OHLE installed between Basingstoke and Southampton docks.

However if Farish were clever in the redesign of the pantograph well, only partially filling the holes to leave a flat top surface with recesses inside the coach body, then by simply including a pantograph they would offer the 450 as it is now as well as giving each modeller the opportunity to update it to 2019 specification.

Of course the licensing hurdle has to be jumped first.

Nigel

[Bmthtrains]

Discussions such as this generally quickly become cases of 'I'd buy one of these, so if I would, it's bound to be a success', assuming that everyone else wants the same models.

And to me that is the biggest problem facing N gauge, exemplified by Ben Ando's polling interest for specific current era editions (and his exasperation in trying to make it clear that CURRENT means current, not Network Southeast or similar...) and finding little interest.

The problem is that the number of actively purchasing British N gauge modellers, though small, is thankfully large enough to sustain the hobby overall, but because interest in railways is so diverse in both geography and history, individual models often only appeal to such a small proportion of potential buyers as to make them financially unviable.

Electrics fall into this category - his many people (seriously, across the country) would buy a woodhead electric say, or a Pendolino? Enough to sell 2-3000 units? Given there are only around 10,000 n gauge modellers active in the UK, our interests are too fragmented for the numbers to stack up on many potentially lovely models.

We have to remember our hobby is tiny in comparison to OO (no pun intended), and the only way we get what we do is thanks to the shrink ray effect of OO stock subsidising the research and design of N (and now with Dapol effectively going the ther way and maximising their designs into O and OO from N).

We all want different things, which is great, but we shouldn't confuse wanting something with it being financially viable.

David

[gc4946]

We have to remember our hobby is tiny in comparison to OO (no pun intended), and the only way we get what we do is thanks to the shrink ray effect of OO stock subsidising the research and design of N (and now with Dapol effectively going the ther way and maximising their designs into O and OO from N).

We all want different things, which is great, but we shouldn't confuse wanting something with it being financially viable.

David

I agree the small diverse UK market is the main issue in N and has to rely in part on cross-subsidy of research and production from other scales in the mass RTR market.
If Model Rail's SWT limited edition Desiro in OO sells out quickly it might give some indication whether that could also be done in N.
Due to licensing and cost issues some TOC liveries may not be viable to a manufacturer except for a short production run or only being available by applying transfers or vinyls to existing models.

[Buzzard]

If Model Rail's SWT limited edition Desiro in OO sells out quickly it might give some indication whether that could also be done in N.

Well if ModelRail can afford a licence from SWT then I'm sure that Farish could as well.

Nigel

[PostModN66]

Electrics fall into this category - his many people (seriously, across the country) would buy a woodhead electric say, or a Pendolino? Enough to sell 2-3000 units?

Hi David,

I take your point generally - but I do wonder if a Pendo might sell OK, as it seems very popular with kids as it is fast, sexy and tilts.  I can imagine a Pendo trainset doing quite well - though I guess I stand to be proven wrong if anyone knows how the OO variant fared.

Cheers  Jon   

[Ben A]

Hello Jon,

Re: SWT licence.  Although both Farish could probably find the cash for an SWT licence, and to fund the production of the models, that money is then not available for other projects.   As budgets are not unlimited, Farish will tend to use heir budget for items that are more likely to give a quicker return.

Re: Pendolino trainset.  I suspect that this would be popular, and I'd like to see one.  But I to make financial sense it would probably be truncated - maybe a compromise with two driving cars and two intermediate cars - a bit like the original Hornby HST set.  Then I can imagine the chorus of complaints|

cheers

Ben A.