Interesting announcement on RMWeb.
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/138342-accurascale-and-realtrack-team-up-to-release-pca-cement-wagon-in-4mm-and-2mm/ (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/138342-accurascale-and-realtrack-team-up-to-release-pca-cement-wagon-in-4mm-and-2mm/)
Ordering page here for 00 gauge:-
https://accurascale.co.uk/collections/pca-bulk-cement-wagon (https://accurascale.co.uk/collections/pca-bulk-cement-wagon)
When I was with CAIB these rated as some of the most reliable wagons in the fleet.
No ordering info on the N release yet:
https://realtrackmodels.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=73
Cool! I like these. May replace my old Farish PCA rake.
Hi all,
To say I am delighted about these is a massive understatement. I have always loved the Castle Cement rakes and this model looks set to represent them superbly.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/94-131018231726-70012822.jpeg)
Ignore the ladders and platform, this pre-sample has the moulded tank that the final model will use, but 3D printed ladders, chassis and catwalk.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/94-131018231727-700241141.jpeg)
Also, the fit of the barrel and ends will be tightened up before production I believe.
EIther way, well done Realtack and Accurascale! Another new kid on the N Gauge block.
Cheers
Ben A.
Hi
I'd expect the N ones to be a similar price to the OO ones. My two TPM kits cost £20 each many years ago.
Cheers
Paul
Wonder what the quantity rates will be. That's a great idea, as these run almost exclusively in block workings these days AFAIK, could be tempted by 25.
I can't see any details of livery options yet. I'll be in for some if they're available in STS grey or Caib white.
It's hard to imagine them doing any more liveries in N than they are in OO, where they're doing Rugby Cement, Castle Cement and STS dark grey. So you're half in luck!
Quote from: njee20 on October 16, 2018, 03:06:23 PM
It's hard to imagine them doing any more liveries in N than they are in OO, where they're doing Rugby Cement, Castle Cement and STS dark grey. So you're half in luck!
I've just read on RMWeb that the N version will be released in the same three liveries as the OO version. So, some STS grey ones for me!
Quote from: Ben A on October 13, 2018, 11:25:01 PM
Hi all,
To say I am delighted about these is a massive understatement. I have always loved the Castle Cement rakes and this model looks set to represent them superbly.
Cheers
Ben A.
You can scratch that one off of Revolution's "to do" list then, Ben. ;)
do these only in run rakes or could you find them mixed with other types of PCA'S
John
I believe the Castle Cement ones tend to only ever operate in block trains (it's the only way I've ever seen them certainly), I would expect the STS and Rugby Cement ones to be more likely to found in mixed rakes, but no specific basis for that.
Quote from: JBQFC on October 17, 2018, 04:28:15 PM
do these only in run rakes or could you find them mixed with other types of PCA'S
John
It depends... From what I can tell, the Rugby and Castle Cement wagons seem much more likely to run in complete rakes, whereas the plain grey ones can be seen in mixed rakes. I've seen at least a couple of pictures of this type of wagon running in a block train with the Metalair type (that Farish produce) and the depressed centre type (that Farish used to make).
Edit (1): njee20 beat me to it! Have a look on Flickr (try searching for Cement PCA); there's almost a thousand pictures to choose from.
Edit (2): for some reason the cement depot at Exeter seems to have been a good place to see all three "main" types of PCAs together
thanks for the reply's chaps i will have a look on Flickr
John
The ordering page has gone live:-
https://realtrackmodels.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=73_89
3 liveries, in 3-wagon packs, though it is not obvious until you get beyond the front screen that there are multiples of the 3 packs. 7 different packs in total.
They require PayPal Friends & Family?! Seriously?! That's gotta be a breach of PayPal's terms for funding commercial projects.
Seriously unimpressed with that as a way to conduct business.
Full payment up front too, and 24 is £600. Mmm, think I'm out sadly.
Edit: ahh actually I think other payment options are available but if you choose PayPal they mandate F&F, still think that's very poor.
Quote from: njee20 on October 24, 2018, 07:21:10 AM
They require PayPal Friends & Family?! Seriously?! That's gotta be a breach of PayPal's terms for funding commercial projects.
Seriously unimpressed with that as a way to conduct business.
Full payment up front too, and 24 is £600. Mmm, think I'm out sadly.
Edit: ahh actually I think other payment options are available but if you choose PayPal they mandate F&F, still think that's very poor.
I agree. There are various buyer protection mechanisms which are not applicable to 'Friends and Family', and it is not recommended for transactions.
https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Disputes-and-Limitations/Can-you-dispute-a-friends-and-family-payment/td-p/841206 (https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Disputes-and-Limitations/Can-you-dispute-a-friends-and-family-payment/td-p/841206)
It does save the seller the PayPal fees, you pay them instead, however; so it is a win for them. Personally I would steer well clear of this...they need to have the proper buyers protection in place.
Ouch! That's me out :goggleeyes:
Agreed, and call me sceptical, but delivery in Q1... there doesn't even seem to be an EP in N gauge.
It's a real shame, I really would like a rake, but at 20% more expensive than the OO gauge ones and that nonsense it feels something to pass on.
Quote from: njee20 on October 24, 2018, 09:24:43 AM
Agreed, and call me sceptical, but delivery in Q1... there doesn't even seem to be an EP in N gauge.
i think that the body mouldings were on show at Milton Keynes.
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/138342-accurascale-and-realtrack-team-up-to-release-pca-cement-wagon-in-4mm-and-2mm/?p=3330806 (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/138342-accurascale-and-realtrack-team-up-to-release-pca-cement-wagon-in-4mm-and-2mm/?p=3330806)
Seems to me that Accurascale/Realtrack have missed a trick here on the pricing. N is the scale where full rakes can be contemplated by a larger number of users, but pricing is substantially above the 00 version. So the price will probably reduce sales in N by more than the amount gained in the N price premium. It almost looks like Realtrack are applying an extra retail margin, on what they are buying from Accurascale already at higher than a normal wholesale price.
So instead of a full Rugby train of 15 wagons I'll make do with one pack of STS - or maybe let it pass altogether.
I have had another look at the pricing. The discount for multiple orders of the same livery brings down the price from £78 for one pack to £76 for two packs, and £75 for 4 packs. No discount for mixed liveries.
In 00 gauge 4 packs of one livery come to £63.80 per pack against the £75 per pack in N, so widening the price differential, from 11% for a single pack to 15% for 4 packs.
Yes that's what I found, and I totally agree with your appraisal that:
a) big rakes are more likely in N
b) they appear to be applying an extra margin on the N gauge ones
Do we know why the N gauge ones only are coming via Realtrack, rather than both scales being Accurascale (or Realtrack)?
Thanks for the info on the sample, didn't realise that, so my scepticism is reined in slightly!
Hello all,
I am not sure about all the politics but it's my guess that the 2mm PCAs are coming via Realtrack because of Arran Aird's involvement.
It would be nice if they were the same price in N as 00 but often there is disparity - and usually it's to N's benefit. The TEA tankers Revolution is doing have a significantly higher price point in 00.
So if, on this occasion, it's the other way round, so be it. I'm in for one each of every pack (of Castle Cement, that is) and if they do more, with different numbers, I may be in for those too.
I posted a photo of the sample on show at GETS a couple of weeks ago; this comprised a moulded barrel and other parts 3D printed as the tool wasn't quite ready in time.
Be very surprised not to see a much more complete sample at Warley, and Accurascale have shown they can turn models around in a reasonable timeframe, so perhaps Q1 is manageable.
Cheers
Ben A.
I'm guessing that they're expecting to sell fewer models in N and so have to charge more to cover the cost of tooling and scale specific CAD.
Steven B.
I don't know much about the business models of Realtrack or Accurascale but if the former is a business that has to make a profit for its owner and the latter is more of a side project for people who have jobs elsewhere, that would account for the difference. Don't forget that the Revolution IZAs were £36 when bought directly and £49 from retailers. If it's your livelihood, you have to make your money somewhere.
I don't think it's anything to do with that so much as one is sold via Accurascale, and thus has one lot of 'margin' incorporated, whilst the other has the inclusion of Realtrack as intermediary, so there's an additional margin which we're effectively covering.
I guess, as Ben says, that's just the way it is, and often our products are slightly cheaper, but it just feels a bit odd. On the one hand there's a cohesive announcement for both, but they're being vended through different channels.
Quote from: Steven B on October 25, 2018, 09:51:57 AM
I'm guessing that they're expecting to sell fewer models in N and so have to charge more to cover the cost of tooling and scale specific CAD.
Yes, presumably so, but that's where Mike's point is relevant - most people in OO probably won't be buying huge rakes of them, whilst N gauge is great for that, and even a modest layout can hold a reasonable length train. If they'd been more like £60 a pack (when buying in bulk) I'd probably have had 8 triple packs, but for me £75 is just a bit too much given forthcoming projects I know I'll want, and given I've only ever seen them in bulk trains I don't really want a shorter rake. I know that's slightly perverse, as I was psychologically spending £480ish, and could still just buy 18, but what can I say, I'm fickle :)
I'm still mulling over selling all my Farish PCAs to fund it though, as I do like them, and they look like decent models. Anyone know when the order book closes?
Hi alll,
I am not sure the order book will close as such. I think a fixed number are being produced and when they're gone they're gone.
Having said that if the sales are strong it may be that more can be added to the production order to accommodate.
Cheers
Ben A.
Thanks Ben, I've just got so used to crowdfunded projects :doh:
Quote from: njee20 on October 24, 2018, 07:21:10 AM
They require PayPal Friends & Family?! Seriously?! That's gotta be a breach of PayPal's terms for funding commercial projects.
Seriously unimpressed with that as a way to conduct business.
Full payment up front too, and 24 is £600. Mmm, think I'm out sadly.
Edit: ahh actually I think other payment options are available but if you choose PayPal they mandate F&F, still think that's very poor.
Hi
However you can pay with a credit card using SagePay which is what I have done. Not been charged yet though.
Cheers
Paul
Yes, that was my edit, which is good, glad there are options. Still think it stinks, and is in contravention of PayPal's T&Cs.
The three Castle Cement wagons I ordered have now been delivered. Charming wagons with exceptionally close coupling on the straight and run smoothly round a 9 inch curve without buffer locking thanks to the elongation mechanism. Impressive amount of detail and comprehensive lettering, but the TOPs number and markings are in white and really difficult to read against the grey bodyside. There should be a black background to the numbers.
(https://i41.servimg.com/u/f41/12/12/53/02/pcas_s10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/12125302/222)
(https://i41.servimg.com/u/f41/12/12/53/02/pca_cl10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/12125302/223)
Very nice. :thumbsup:
What a shame about the TOPS panels given the price, that feels like quite an omission. I still keep flirting with a rake of these, but not sure I can justify the cost of them really.
Edit: is it worth checking with them? They got it right on the Accurascale ones, and the painted samples were right (albeit they were the Heidelberg ones, not the "building a better environment" ones, and it's not just the TOPS panel - all the labels on the sole bar that are outlined should be solid - the yellow oval, the red rectangle, the yellow rectangle on the barrel and the other black ones.
I was about to order them, so I have emailed them to ask what is happening.
Aaran Aird has posted elsewhere that a transfer sheet is being produced to rectify the missing lettering. I do not know whether all liveries are affected.
I just got a reply as follows
"You mean the 'Substantial Mistake' of the TOPs code not having a black background colour. We are producing a Transfer to put over this for those who don't want them Weathered in a white powder, this will correct this issue.
Charlie"
Sensible solution if a bit fiddly.
Quote from: woodbury22uk on December 22, 2019, 01:15:18 AM
Aaran Aird has posted elsewhere that a transfer sheet is being produced to rectify the missing lettering. I do not know whether all liveries are affected.
I hope the transfer sheet provides sufficient different numbers to renumber the rake I've ordered, will save me a search if not the task of renumbering.
Regards
Iain
Looks like a couple of panels on the solebars are the same but not quite so obvious. A bit of weathering might hide those but the Tops one does rather stand out as it is. Look nice otherwise, the present day quality of printing is very high.
Izzy
I'm not sure I call that satisfactory, unless it's accompanied by a healthy discount. These are the most expensive British n gauge 2-axle wagon AFAIK, and that's a glaring error. Dealing with the TOPS panel is half of it, but there are at least 5 erroneous labels each side, that's 10 per wagon, and i'm not sure simply expecting customers to finish them for you is good enough.
That definitely confirms my decision on them for now, which is a shame, as they look fantastic.
Noted that Dapol heavily discounted Mk3 coaches with livery errors. The same may have to happen here to move these considering the very high price demanded for a not perfect product. They make even Farish wagons look like value for money!
HI All
I've not seen a sheet break down yet but it will include the numbers on the affected wagons, its getting produced by Railtec so i will be suggesting they have another sheet available to order with additional wagon numbers.
The sheet will be free to those that have wagons and wont to update .
Regards Arran
Hi Arran,
You must be disappointed that these wagons have a livery error. I have J,K and L sets of the Castle Cement and I bought set M for a friend. My 3 sets all have the error and I presume set M is the same, so I will need all 4 sets of the decals to correct the error. As I bought the sets from you at Warley, how will I get hold of these decals?
Later,
Stu from EGDL.
Hi All
Once we get the sets of transfers I will post up here and other places for those that want them , things like this can happen it's how you deal with them in the end that counts . The fact we only noticed weeks after made me kick myself, it takes a little shine of what is one of the best detailed n gauge wagon out there.
Regards Arran
Quote from: Rabbitaway on December 22, 2019, 03:45:30 PM
Noted that Dapol heavily discounted Mk3 coaches with livery errors. The same may have to happen here to move these considering the very high price demanded for a not perfect product. They make even Farish wagons look like value for money!
I wouldn't hold my breath personally. At the end of the day these are lovely looking wagons and they will not have been cheap to produce. The "expectation" of big discounts because of a small printing error seems to ignore the fact that someone somewhere has to pay and if they are sold at a loss is that going to encourage further N models?
Not my era, and that's the only reason I wouldn't buy, I'll just have to wait patiently for my RevolutioN Cemflos..
Roy
Quote from: Arran on December 22, 2019, 07:28:47 PM
Hi All
Once we get the sets of transfers I will post up here and other places for those that want them , things like this can happen it's how you deal with them in the end that counts . The fact we only noticed weeks after made me kick myself, it takes a little shine of what is one of the best detailed n gauge wagon out there.
Regards Arran
Thanks Arran,
No problem in waiting for the decals. FWIW, I agree with Roy's comments that it is a tad unfair to expect these to be heavily discounted. A lot of work has gone into them and they have missed a single pass on the print run. It doesn't make them any cheaper to produce, and the fact a decal set is being made to correct them is nice to hear. And as a smaller manufacturer, any discounting must be considered suicidal...and the wagons are a lovely looking product in all other respects.
Regards,
Stu from EGDL.
Quote from: Arran on December 22, 2019, 05:03:46 PM
HI All
I've not seen a sheet break down yet but it will include the numbers on the affected wagons, its getting produced by Railtec so i will be suggesting they have another sheet available to order with additional wagon numbers.
The sheet will be free to those that have wagons and wont to update .
Regards Arran
Thanks Arran,
I would like a sheet with additional numbers as well as for the original numbers.
Have all the wagons now been shipped?
Best regards
Iain
Hello all,
I feel Arran's pain on this!
I collected my wagons at Warley but didn't have time to look at them during the show.
When I got home and noticed the livery error I looked at previously posted images of the deco sample and realised it was correct; so it is not as if the artwork sent to China was wrong, or approval was given when it shouldn't have been.
In this Arran has been exceptionally unlucky, and I think his response is fair and proportionate, and I look forward to acquiring some of the decals to correct the TOPS and other data panels.
In theory Arran could send all the models back to China and demand they be reprinted, but with so many delivered this is just unrealistic. I'd much rather fix the problem here than return mine and wait for months!
Through tucked away somewhere I think I have some rub-down transfers from when I designed a kit for this wagon about a decade ago...!
Cheers
Ben A.
https://realtrackmodels.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=89
sold in 3 packs only
My pack of STS branded PCAs arrived yesterday (although to the billing address rather than the different delivery address!).
I've only had time for a quick look so far but first impressions are that it's a stunning wagon; easily on a par with the Revolution Class B tanks or KFA container wagons. Fingers crossed we eventually get a PCA V tank to the same standard so I can retire my Farish models
The rolling stock section of the 2020 model of the year is going to be very difficult to choose from with the KFA, PCA, Sturgeon and who knows what else to choose from.
Steven B.
Hi,
Have all the pre-orders been shipped?
Best regards
Iain
Yes and i think your were in the last batch
Regards Arran
I was just about to ask the same question.
John P
Quote from: Arran on January 18, 2020, 06:36:04 PM
Yes and i think your were in the last batch
Regards Arran
Thanks Arran, much appreciated.
Iain
Absolutely awesome wagons. They may even have knocked the Class B tanks off the top position in best ever four wheeled wagon...
Pete @ EGLM
Hi arrived safely - many thanks
Really great model
I've just ordered 15 of these, 12 STS and 3 Rugby (I've seen photos of mixed rakes in the late 80's, perfect for me).
Question:
The STS I believe only have 3 unique numbers, does anyone know where I can buy appropriate number transfers for these wagons?