So I'm in the process of using the long weekend, in part, to dismantle "Somewhere in the West Country". My modelling has improved to a point where that layouts flaws irritate me.
But this got me thinking. Do layouts that tell a story prove more durable? Whether it's recreating a specific place and time, or else creating a fantasy setting of sorts with events that only happen in your imagination, some of the best layouts seem to be ones that tell stories.
I'm thinking, for example, of Cant Cove (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=18923.0) and Claverdon (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=12396.0), two layouts that seem rich with narrative. Does the fact the creators of these layouts create (and share) stories about them make them more engaging as long-term projects? Indeed, these sorts of layouts are very much in the tradition of the Madder Valley Railway, pieces of "fan fiction" as much as modelling.
In other words: if I create a story that will draw me into my new layout, will I be less quickly bored by it regardless of its modelling quality? Or do well made layouts with realistic modelling inspire stories by suspending disbelief?
Perhaps you don't think narrative matters at all? Is it all down to the modelling, and the more accurate, the better, and never mind what you imagine the trains are doing as they're whizzing round the track!?
Cheers, NeMo
I think a good narrative will inspire you.
I reckon good layouts at least know where they are and why the traffic is as it is, rather than just running a random selection of stock.
I would compare it to stumbling across a railway line whilst on holiday - the trains don't look quite like they do at home, and you are intrigued about where the trains are going. Even though you don't know it, there definitely is a reason.
An extensive narrative is optional, but can be interesting. I would like to know it after viewing the layout rather than before....and it seems it can almost become a hobby in itself.
Cheers Jon :)
Thank you for the praise for Cant Cove (and Penamayne). However, they were / are inspired by Port Perran and, now, Trepol Bay and Descanso Farm, in Cornwall, and Brian (Mito's) layout in Somerset all of which also have a narrative with named local businesses and people. For Brian, the Somerset coalfield was more extensive and provided best steaming coal and the S&D Joint stayed open. (I have also helped other NGF members with alternative histories which are still believable.)
The narrative grew after I did a lot of research on the railways in North Cornwall and decided that, post 1962, a realistic and believable alternative history was required to keep the lines open beyond 1964. That, in turn, necessitated a more in-depth back story to better explain the background to the fictitious people and events of the great "Use It or Lose It" conference held at Trevelver Castle in 1962.
With Martin's agreement and then Jon's, a whole involved alternative history of the railways (including maps) was then developed for North Cornwall. One of the problems was that the railways came too late to North Cornwall so I moved the dates back to allow longer for economic development and to explain a more developed network to incorporate Martin and Jon's layouts.
Given this alternative history, the operating details for all the participating layouts become far more realistic and, IMHO, enjoyable. Associated with this are more Private Owner wagons and local locomotive preservation societies to keep steam locos. running much longer than they did in Cornwall.
It certainly can, almost, become a hobby in itself but then my first degree is in history! However, just like a fiction writer, some of the characters, e.g., Sylvia of Trevelver Castle, develop a 'life' of their own! 8-)
They say "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" so a narrative is not essential for everyone. It depends on you, if you feel it would help, fine . If not then why bother. Some of us like to model a real place, others prefer somewhere fictional. That's one of the joys of this hobby/addiction you make it the way you want and to heck with other peoples preferences.
I'd say a narrative, or backstory, or raison d'etre or whatever is useful as it give you something to focus on, especially when confronted with the infinite number of ways it's possible to develop a layout. There's nothing stopping the narrative from being very fanciful, of course, reality is what you make it and Rule 1 can be invoked at any time :D
Hi there,
Interesting question.
It seems to me that, broadly speaking, there are four approaches to layout building:
1) Depict a real location, at a specified time, with scenics and stock as close to the prototype as you can manage.
2) Depict an interpretation of a real location, perhaps with elements drawn from that area but combined in a way that suits you, and run trains that are appropriate, but perhaps with some modellers' licence.
3) Create a fictional but believable location with your own version of history.
4) Run the trains you want on a layout that isn't based on any prototype - perhaps following a track-plan from a modelling book - that might not even have any scenery or buildings.
Of these, only the third really requires you to create a complete history for the layout; but when I have attended shows and admired other layouts I think that those of type (3) that have such a history tend to draw you in more.
I suspect this is because in creating the history the builder has had to spend time considering how geological features/human infuences/buildings/roads etc would have evolved, and this lends an air of authenticity to the finished layout.
cheers
Ben A.
Thanks, Ben A. Cant Cove is 2) as will be Penmayne as they are real places on the River Camel Estuary but on a line which was never planned let alone built, from Wadebridge; whilst Fox Holes Halt, Port Perran, Trepol Bay and Weaver Cove combine elements of 2) and 3), although mainly 3) as they are all set in North Cornwall but fictional locations (although they are on our map). We all run trains which are appropriate for North Cornwall in the 1960s but with an individually greater or lesser degree of modellers' licence. Durscombe and Withy Junction are 3).
A story might help you get an article in 'Raiway Modeler'.
Best regards,
Joe
damn
I think I need a 'narrative' then lol
tim
My take on this is that railway modelling can be similar to directing a film.
When you go to the cinema the good films are those that capture your imagination and transport you into the mindset/vision of the director. The film has to distract you away from the here-and-now, and into the imagination of the director. It's called 'suspension of disbelief':
'Suspension of disbelief or willing suspension of disbelief is a term coined in 1817 by the poet and aesthetic philosopher Samuel Taylor Coleridge, who suggested that if a writer could infuse a "human interest and a semblance of truth" into a fantastic tale, the reader would suspend judgment concerning the implausibility of the narrative.'
I think in all of our heads, when looking at our own layouts, to one degree or another, we imagine stuff that isn't there (perhaps the sound of wheels squeeling over tight curves / smoke coming out of a steam engine etc) ... or block-out things (the lack of a back-scene for eg)
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But for me the bigger question is how has the internet changed things?
In the pre-internet age, you just went off and quietly did your own thing in your own way, perhaps inspired by articles in magazines you picked up from the newsagaent once a month. Few people, if any, ever entered your little fantasy world. Your imagination could just 'free-float' as much or as little as you wished.
Now, if you go on a railway modelling internet forum, there's sort of an obligation to share your work with everyone in the world. Which in turn induces the need to come up with a narrative to explain your layout to other people (even if it's simply saying 'Rule 1 is your principle - your still having to explain yourself to others).
I wonder whether that on the one hand quashes the old freedom to just let imagination run riot in your head to your heart's content / and on the other hand makes modellers feel they have to 'sell a story' (narrative) to others?
Apologies if the above is a bit rambling ...
"My take on this is that railway modelling can be similar to directing a film." I fully agree and thanks for your very interesting post. I do, certainly, play out the scenes in my head and have been doing so ever since, first, the idea for Penmayne and then, second, for Cant Cove came into my head. Bothe were always designed as moving tableaux in which stories would be told. (Which is why I have an amazing number of different 'little people' for example and love other people's stories.)
Quote from: Southernboy on April 03, 2015, 09:41:24 PM
Now, if you go on a railway modelling internet forum, there's sort of an obligation to share your work with everyone in the world. Which in turn induces the need to come up with a narrative to explain your layout to other people (even if it's simply saying 'Rule 1 is your principle - your still having to explain yourself to others).
Hi Mark,
Good post.
In the past the only real route to sharing your work was at an exhibition, or by featuring in a magazine. The internet offers a third option that in many ways is superior to both the others in that it can evolve in real time, invites feedback and can be accessed at the reader's convenience.
You're right, I think there is a bit of an expectation that if you join a forum you should try to contribute to it - and for many this means sharing some information about their layout - but for most I would say that it's a positive experience and the vast majority of comments are appreciative and supportive.
cheers
Ben A.
Thanks Ben,
I totally agree about the positives :)
Looking at this purely academically, I suppose the question at the back of my mind is whether sharing our work on the internet makes us more 'self conscious' about what we do.
Previously one may have just made a model for self-satisfaction, no pressure, whereas now it's going to be subject to peer review. That inevitably adds a new dimension to how we approach things.
Either way, I still enjoy 'playing trains' :)
Well going back to NeMo's original post: I think ultimately it's subjective - so speaking for myself - narrative makes a difference. I love the 2mm Copenhagen Fields. The story there is about a historical location, the scope of the project draws you in, as do the many details you can chance upon and admire.
Equally a very simple (non) layout like Farthings
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/75/entry-10213-all-in-a-days-work-part-4-1914/ (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/75/entry-10213-all-in-a-days-work-part-4-1914/)
completely captures the imagination as good as any bed-time story your parents read to you as a kid.
In the case of my current layout, Fisherlea, the idea started as a way to partly remember some of the railway scene and memories of my youth in the Portsmouth area.
I also brought in a "what could have happened" scenario element if the Somerset & Dorset line had stayed open which had been one of my interests for some time, having briefly lived in the Bournemouth area.
Having some narrative has helped focus matters on the space allowed for the layout, and more crucially, budgeting, especially now with the rising cost of new models.
Concerning the desirability of a 'Narrative', herewith my few cents worth.
It is extremely difficult to construct ANY model railway without some sort of guideline while so-doing. At its simplest, this can be a 'history' of some sort which gives a 'reason' for what currently exists, with the alternative being a totally random collection of 'bits' which have absolutely no relationship to each other, but which were purchased 'cos they looked nice'. Taken to an extreme this could be a model of 'Rocket' sharing a US-style roundhouse with an HST! Slightly daft admitedly, but certainly possible.
A narrative is however different - it 'tells a story', not only to the builder, but to the viewer. My wife and I learnt this at an exhibition we attended as guest exhibitors several years ago. The layout concerned was Six-Mile Bush - photos of which appear in Komata's album in the 'Gallery' section of this site. The 'viewing public' were walking past, taking a very quick look, then moving on. How to get them to at least stay and 'look' at what I'd done? In desperation, I started to tell anyone watching, a very improvised story about the village and what was going on within the settlement, pointing out what was happening while I was doing so (it's amazing what one can do with an ordinary drinking straw!!) The tale altered as each viewer 'visited' and was a real dogs breakfast (remember I was improvising). To our amazement it actually worked, and people really became involved in 'the story'. They bought into it very readily. We subsequently 'formalised' the tale and now present it as part of the greater 'model trains are fun, come get involved' idea that we try to present to the public (especially as the hobby is visibly declining as computer games et all take more and more away).
We have discovered with experience that we actually don't to do all the talking, and that the 'customer' can often create their own 'narrative' based on what is presented to them; children especially have this ability and can create some amazing tales from what they see before them. These are all perfectly feasible, and are always very entertaining, especially when they are presented to me (as the operator) in absolute seriousness. In such situations, the presence of a 'narrative' is absolutely important and provides the basis on which such 'stories' are based.
A couple of pointers however - especially if exhibiting: We have learnt that it is essential to try and introduce some sort of humour into the narrative (six Mile Bush has, for example, a very shy dinosaur 'lurking' behind a building), and at times a couple of Kangaroos have been seen to be loose in the same layout's top paddock (the Aussies will understand) along with a pair of ostrich like, (and supposedly extinct) native birds called Moa; one is named 'Push' and the other 'Mota'... WEe have also discovered that it is wise to try to avoid politics - even if in fun, or for historically-accurate reasons (and because it fits the narrative being presented!!) I unintentionally got into an argument over a scene of my Te Kereru mining and Investment Co. Ltd. layout with an adult resident of a nearby mining town renowned in New Zealand history for a very violent confrontation between a local union and the New Zealand Government - in 1912!! it was a very quick learning experience! BTW: DON'T introduce / have anything 'questionable' on your layouts - even though it can probably be justified as part of the narrative - it does absolutely 'nowt for your reputation and even less for the hobby - especially as parents of small children may have to explain what the 'littlies' have seen (just saying)
Finally (and this may be the most important point), try to key your 'narrative' to your viewer! If modelling (for instance) a well-known city, don't just model 'the trains' model whatever else said city is known for (even jellied eel stands if that is a local speciality - or even a locally-known cafe or eating establishment) - something your viewer can at least have some identification with.
As I said, my few cents. A 'narrative' on your layout? Definitely.
Thanks for asking. Hope this has helped.
BTW: I asked my wife (who is very familiar with railway exhibitions as she has been to quite a few with me over the past decade or more) what she looks for on a layout. Her reply was interesting. The thing she looks for on ANY layout is 'whether it tells a story'. If the layout she is looking at (irrespective of scale ) doesn't 'tell her a tale' she moves on. It appears that this trait is one shared by many women....
Yes, I believe that a narrative is important to establish character, credibility and a raison d'etre for a layout, particularly a large one.
I realise that I have harped on the following in a few threads in the past, but when I look back at the layouts that influenced me most as a kid, they were the ones with a story:
Peter Denny's Buckingham Branchlines being probably the foremost. In fact I have just re-read his book Peter Denny's Buckingham Branchlines Part Two 1967-1993 (Wild Swan Publications... not sure if it's still in print), and intend to do a review on it soon.
The final chapter is entitled "A Buckingham Journey" in which the author takes the reader on a layout tour from the viewpoint of the reader being on the layout hopping on and off trains! It begins:
"The year is 1907 and we are standing in the Market Square at Buckingham, having spent a pleasant night in the Great Central Hotel." 'Nuff said!!
Other layouts of the era that spring to mind and fall instantly into the "narrative" mold are P.D. Hancock's Craig and Mertonford (book review in that section), and Derek Naylor's Aire Valley.
OK, none of these layouts were N scale, but they all oozed atmosphere and excellent operational capability - mainly due to the reality afforded them by their accompanying narratives.
Whilst I would agree that a "narrative" matters to make a layout credible to a visitor, for someone who just wants to run what they like without trying to make a layout credible to others then its not needed. A matter of what suits the builder.
Many thanks, gc4946, Komata, and Bealman for those thoughtful and very interesting posts. Even if you do not plan to show your finished layout (and I don't) I think that, as Bealman, says, a narrative is important to establish character, credibility and a raison d'etre for a layout but I would add of any size. Of course, if all the modeller wants to do is to run any trains that they like then a narrative is, indeed, irrelevant. However, to achieve realism then, IMHO, a narrative is essential and, as gc4946 points out, it also makes it much easier to decide what to buy and what not to. And, I think, for quite a few of us, a coherent narrative adds to the enjoyment of modelling and operating our layouts.
Regarding the earlier post about using layouts for storytelling, that was always my intention with Cant Cove and I have bought many different collections of N Scale people with particular stories in mind. Maybe, later this year, I'll even be able to show some of them?
Certainly it is the figures which attract the attention of my female friends and acquaintances. The nudists for the naturist beach at Cant Cove are already notorious!
Quote from: Southernboy on April 04, 2015, 07:44:23 PM
Looking at this purely academically, I suppose the question at the back of my mind is whether sharing our work on the internet makes us more 'self conscious' about what we do.
I think that's a very interesting point. I think it does make us self-conscious, having in mind that we will post the pictures and the narrative... Like my fictitious upgraded Westerns at Reading in 1974, some things might be done with the idea of posting them. Sharing is certainly changing how we see our hobby.
That's not necessarily a bad thing... I think our efforts to have a narrative are part of the fun, and sharing that is too. I think the narrative makes things interesting for everyone else. Who doesn't love the Frankland news bulletins from the 1930s? In my case, the narrative is my inner 10-year old trainspotting on Reading station in 1973. The idea of a whole history of Cornwall being invented to inspire many people to build miniature works of art is extraordinary. I was also intrigued by Mr Grumpy's dystopian future.
As for the OP, a narrative isn't necessary... Some of Chris' videos with his real soundtrack, little cameo appearances of freight passing wherever, are stand-alone works of art.
But a narrative certainly draws people in to appreciate the layout as a creation. And I think that the narrative does the same for the creator, generating an emotional involvement that undoubtedly would make it a longer lived project with the care and effort that it is likely to engender in the construction.
My point is that a "narrative" is entirely optional. My layout has a sort of "narrative" as it is an artistic interpretation of a real place, with allowance made for the fact that you can't fit a mile and a quarter into a space 18ft long, even in N without some compromises plus a few changes to make operating the layout more interesting without a lot of shunting moves.
However not everyone wants to go that route and who are we to say they should!
In the deepest sense of the word, every layout has some kind of narrative, even if it is Rule One applies! However, there is a wide range of narratives and that is as it should be because, above all else, each layout is it's own modeller's / s' creation. The degree and depth (and realism) of each narrative depends on the personal interests and inclinations of each modeller. Certainly, each layout will involve compromises of some sort because they are models, miniatures, but not real life no matter how closely we try to model our individual interpretations of our chosen reality.
"The idea of a whole history of Cornwall being invented to inspire many people to build miniature works of art is extraordinary." It certainly did not start out in any planned way but just grew organically as more people wanted to get involved and wanted to share in the design of a common alternative history and become part of a wider miniature reality which they could adjust to their personal requirements. For me that has considerably added to my enjoyment and I am very grateful to Alex, Brian, Jon, John, Martin, and Mike for their participation and imagination. The sum is very much greater than its parts.
Most of my layout fits into Category 2 in Ben A's post above (first page) so its fictional history is assumed to be much the same as the real-life locations it is loosely based on (Exeter Central, Dawlish Warren and St. Ives). It's more a case of adapting/interpreting the prototypical reality to fit the limitations of available space, than any attempt to create a fictional railway serving either a fictional location or a real one which never had a railway connection.
The notable exception is the mineral branch, which has a lot more scope for creativity with both backstory and operation/rolling stock (a big part of the reason I added it to the layout in the first place). It's assumed to be based on the trackbed of an older horse-drawn mineral tramway,like the one at Hay Tor - hence the steep gradient - and later acquired by Col. Stephen's "empire", at which point a basic passenger service was added to the line in the rather optimistic hope of attracting more traffic.
For me as a visitor at an exhibition, a story matters a lot. Remember, there are plenty of layouts to gaze at. It doesn't have to be a true story, just something that makes the scene feel as if it could be a real place with its own logic/dynamic.
Narrative can also take me back to an exhibit, for a longer second look.