Whilst at Chorley Hospital this morning for my lung capacity test, I couldn't help but notice the signage for the department read "cardio-respitory"
Now I'm of the 'old school' and believe I was taught 'proper English' - so shouldn't that have been "cardio-respiratory" ???
Looking through a couple of dictionaries seemed to confirm my thoughts.
Anybody have any opinion?
Sounds spot on to me. It's amazing how many times you see errors like that all over the place. Hate it!!
:)
The people who made , painted or installed the sign are just ignorant
sods, it's that simple.
Quote from: newportnobby on April 13, 2015, 02:41:18 PM
Anybody have any opinion?
Blimey, that's asking for trouble! :laugh:
I would agree though that official signage should be correct, easy enough to check spelling online these days without digging out a dusty old dictionary :thumbsup:
Reminds me of a council sign I saw in Harlow - "NO PARKING ON THE BRIDAL PATH". Can't see some girl in a fancy white wedding dress wanting to walk along a muddy path anyway ;D
Paul
Quote from: Sprintex on April 13, 2015, 02:50:29 PM
Quote from: newportnobby on April 13, 2015, 02:41:18 PM
Anybody have any opinion?
Blimey, that's asking for trouble! :laugh:
I would agree though that official signage should be correct, easy enough to check spelling online these days without digging out a dusty old dictionary :thumbsup:
Paul
Whoever the culprit was they'd made the signs throughout as, when I walked back down the corridors, every sign was spelt the same.
Quote from: Agrippa on April 13, 2015, 02:49:44 PM
The people who made , painted or installed the sign are just ignorant
sods, it's that simple.
Can't dispute that :no:
:telloff: Sprintex, you didn't have full stops at the end of your second or third
sentences.
Guess what the sign writer was supposed to paint??? :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing:
[smg id=23990 type=preview align=center caption="oops 01"]
[smg id=23991 type=full align=center caption="oops 02"]
cheers John.
Quote from: Agrippa on April 13, 2015, 02:57:59 PM
:telloff: You didn't have full stops at the end of your second or third
sentences.
If you meant the OP I think you'll find it's the 1st and 2nd sentences without full stops (mea culpa). :P ;)
Quote from: Agrippa on April 13, 2015, 02:49:44 PM
The people who made , painted or installed the sign are just ignorant
sods, it's that simple.
Perchance "It's that simple" should have been a separate sentence :-X
It's people adding an unnecessary apostrophe that annoy me. We have two examples locally. Our village pub has a notice specifying Opening Time's.
And we have a shop selling Cornish Pasty's.
Also noticed a Taxi firm in Falmouth that takes Advanced Bookings Only. Presumably you have to be an expert taxi traveller to book with them .
I Struggle with Spurious Capitalisation!
Cheers, Jon!
Perchance, npn, I miss the passing of the semicolon,
but I suppose that is better than passing a semi-colon.
,
,
Quote from: port perran on April 13, 2015, 04:08:04 PM
Our village pub has a notice specifying Opening Time's.
If it only has one opening time then that could be correct ?
QuoteAnd we have a shop selling Cornish Pasty's.
And that could be a contraction of " Cornish Pasty, oi me luvly it is (a cornish pasty) "
sorry,
mahatmacoat.
Spurious "quotation marks" annoy.
.... maybe respitory is a modern word for 'spitoon'...
....clang.........
Quote from: scotsoft on April 13, 2015, 02:58:31 PM
Guess what the sign writer was supposed to paint???
"oops 01"]
You must be meaning that he is pointing at the missing "a" in Arbic or the missing space in "Nosmoking"
I'm sure I cant imagine what else has gone wrong, , ,
(where is that straight face smiley :) )
Pretty comprehensively blundered !! , or a good photoshop job ?
Quote from: railsquid on April 13, 2015, 04:28:47 PM
Spurious "quotation marks" annoy.
And spurious explanation marks !! (sorry)
Just look at the cover of any railway magazine. I take Heritage Railway every month and we play the guess how many explanation marks on the cover this month game.
As an example - West Country Pacific to tackle Devon banks !
A point of order Mr Speaker, sir,
should not the title of the thread be " A question of English" ?
What about the perfumery who had a sign saying "Eau de Colon"
You all want to try living in sunny Wales....I have to read every sign twice before getting to the English... PS. I am Welsh...stupid language !
Quote from: port perran on April 13, 2015, 04:08:04 PM
It's people adding an unnecessary apostrophe that annoy me.
Hear, hear! They used to be called 'greengrocer's apostrophes' but now they're so ubiquitous they could even be called 'regular'. Then there's the distinction between its and it's...
I blame the whole generation of schoolchildren and teachers who were not taught any grammar because it was thought to be stifling.
That said, the whole history English, indeed any language, is the codification of mistakes ;-}
(with my linguist's hat on)
Many many years ago, an American aircraft designer stated that his design philosophy was one of 'Simplify then add lightness' in respect of the aircraft he was involved with.
In a way it sums up what has happened to our language doesn't it?
BTW, has anyone come up against the current curse inflicted upon formal ''English' - the mixing of 'text-speak' and 'correct' words in the same sentence? it's appearing at university level now and causing immense problems for the current ('non-texting') generation of lecturers in respect of exam and assignment marking. The students who use such things see absolutely nothing wrong with the practise and become somewhat aggrieved when their mistakes (which cost them marks) are pointed out to them. They simply do not understand, and the practice will, if anything, increase as 'Generation Y' et al start to arrive at the doors of the institutions of higher learning - and then take up teaching positions within them.
Based-on this, 'Simplify then add lightness', would seem to be as good a summary of the situation as any I that have heard.
Quote from: Malc on April 13, 2015, 05:04:14 PM"Eau de Colon"
I sure that's what their were advertising during that scene in Blazing Saddles!!! (the extra colons were for PP!!)
Quote from: PostModN66 on April 13, 2015, 04:19:34 PM
I Struggle with Spurious Capitalisation!
Cheers, Jon!
This is a bit of an infuriating thing which we tend to see forums (fora?) - it must take longer to do!
At least it's not as bad as dropping a capital letter...
Imagine writing "I helped Uncle Jack off the horse" without the capitals...
Quote from: newportnobby on April 13, 2015, 02:41:18 PM
Whilst at Chorley Hospital this morning for my lung capacity test, I couldn't help but notice the signage for the department read "cardio-respitory"
Now I'm of the 'old school' and believe I was taught 'proper English' - so shouldn't that have been "cardio-respiratory" ???
Looking through a couple of dictionaries seemed to confirm my thoughts.
Anybody have any opinion?
Is it a bit of American medico terminology creeping in ?. Cheers John.
Why not just say heart and lungs instead of a lot of jargon
Quote from: port perran on April 13, 2015, 04:49:13 PM
Quote from: railsquid on April 13, 2015, 04:28:47 PM
Spurious "quotation marks" annoy.
And spurious explanation marks !! (sorry)
Just look at the cover of any railway magazine. I take Heritage Railway every month and we play the guess how many explanation marks on the cover this month game.
As an example - West Country Pacific to tackle Devon banks !
Especially as they are exclamation marks!!! :doh:
Quote from: Agrippa on April 13, 2015, 08:40:50 PM
Why not just say heart and lungs instead of a lot of jargon
Quite so !
But it doesnt make them sound so important.
At our doctor's ( or is that doctors' , cos there is more than one of them ? ) surgery ( why do doctors have surgeries when they are not usually surgeons ? ) we now have Nurse Clinicians intead of nurses.
One day whilst waiting in the Waiting Area ( no longer do we have a room ) I was amused to hear " Tom Cobley to room 7 please ", presently Tom would shuffle off and moments later return to reception, much mutterings, then off he would go again. This happened a couple of times till it was my turn for room 7 whereupon all became clear -
the Nurse had turned into a Phlebotomist, according to the sign on the door, and nobody dared go in !
I took a prescription request form and wrote on the back of it "Dracula" and tucked it into the sign.
On my next visit I saw that the room had changed to "Blood Test"
Quote from: Malc on April 13, 2015, 05:04:14 PM
What about the perfumery who had a sign saying "Eau de Colon"
Ugh! or Sniff !! :)
Would you consider me to be overly pedantic if I offered " perfumery which" or "perfumerer who "
Quote from: MalcolmAL on April 13, 2015, 10:04:42 PM
Quote from: Malc on April 13, 2015, 05:04:14 PM
What about the perfumery who had a sign saying "Eau de Colon"
Ugh! or Sniff !! :)
Would you consider me to be overly pedantic if I offered " perfumery which" or "perfumerer who "
Where's the question mark Malcolm? ???
Cheers, Jon :)
Quote from: PostModN66 on April 13, 2015, 11:20:17 PM
Quote from: MalcolmAL on April 13, 2015, 10:04:42 PM
Quote from: Malc on April 13, 2015, 05:04:14 PM
What about the perfumery who had a sign saying "Eau de Colon"
Ugh! or Sniff !! :)
Would you consider me to be overly pedantic if I offered " perfumery which" or "perfumerer who "
Where's the question mark Malcolm? ???
:laughabovepost: Arrrgh ! Mea somfink !
Hehee, nice one Jon
I plead premature dementia, brought on by the goings on on the 'box'
can I claim back 1/12th of my TV fee cos it is unwatchable for the next month till they get over themselves ?
Quote from: MalcolmAL on April 13, 2015, 05:00:42 PM
A point of order Mr Speaker, sir,
should not the title of the thread be " A question of English" ?
"A turnout of English" for some, surely!!!
Our pub menu has omellets, roast beef with roast potatoes' and leek and potatoe soup. At least they spelt the leek right. I hope. Or is it spelled?
Of course we go one step further and destroy other peoples' languages too. I despair at the number of times I see "deja-vous" and "nestpa" in social media postings from writers who are already struggling with English without venturing abroard.
However, my English is not perfect. I like a capital in English. I also know the difference between "led" and "lead" which is more than most spelling and grammar checkers used by our local and national newspapers.
One of my pet hates is those who spell definitely as definately. I also recall an RAF boy entrant who after over a year of electronics training still mis-spelt magnet as magnat. As for those who mix up their, there and they're ... ... ... ...
Why do people pronounce 'nuclear' as 'nucular', or 'burglary' as 'burgulry'?
Anne Robinson also pronounces 'cutlery' as cuttelry'.
There is a trend on TV for presenters, newsreaders etc to pronounce 'to' as 'tuh'.
I despair. ::)
The one that really gets me going is the widespread use today of "train station".
I can't be the only one on here who was brought up with "railway station", can I?
Suppose that's the evolution of language for you.
Adrian
PS I well remember the first time hearing something described as "well bad" !
Quote from: Adrian on April 14, 2015, 12:01:53 PM
The one that really gets me going is the widespread use today of "train station".
I can't be the only one on here who was brought up with "railway station", can I?
Indeed, I regard 'train station' as Toytown-speak or Noddy language. But it is analogous to 'bus station'.
In the 1970s no English speakers said 'hopefully' except in the sense of 'better to travel hopefully than to arrive'. The only translation of German
hoffentlich or Dutch
hopelijk was on the lines of 'I hope...'.
Sometimes get some interesting English translations on signs in Tenerife.
The one below is on the wall by a local Spar - at the place where you tie up your dog whilst you shop inside - but reads as though it is something different.
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo231/Tdmak/Model%20Railway/FurumPic1.jpg) (http://s379.photobucket.com/user/Tdmak/media/Model%20Railway/FurumPic1.jpg.html)
Quote from: Adrian on April 14, 2015, 12:01:53 PM
The one that really gets me going is the widespread use today of "train station".
I can't be the only one on here who was brought up with "railway station", can I?
You are not alone, on a similar theme; people seem to fly in airplanes.... >:( :telloff: They are not airplanes, they are aeroplanes!
Quote from: Jack on April 14, 2015, 03:50:41 PM
Quote from: Adrian on April 14, 2015, 12:01:53 PM
The one that really gets me going is the widespread use today of "train station".
I can't be the only one on here who was brought up with "railway station", can I?
You are not alone, on a similar theme; people seem to fly in airplanes.... >:( :telloff: They are not airplanes, they are aeroplanes!
Not if your talking "Jefferson Airplane" - once had an LP of theirs but don't know what happened to it. :)
Quote from: Komata on April 13, 2015, 07:32:38 PMBTW, has anyone come up against the current curse inflicted upon formal ''English' - the mixing of 'text-speak' and 'correct' words in the same sentence? it's appearing at university level now and causing immense problems for the current ('non-texting') generation of lecturers in respect of exam and assignment marking. The students who use such things see absolutely nothing wrong with the practise and become somewhat aggrieved when their mistakes (which cost them marks) are pointed out to them. They simply do not understand, and the practice will, if anything, increase as 'Generation Y' et al start to arrive at the doors of the institutions of higher learning - and then take up teaching positions within them.
I remember when I was a student 15 years ago, after the first essay a fairly sizeable chunk of the year group were told to go to what were basically remedial classes in English. It caused a lot of grumbling - I recall one saying "But I'm not doing a degree in English". Talk about missing the point!
Mention of college in the previous post reminds me of one notorious event.
Staff from other colleges were invited to a "meeting" and signs had been placed in key areas to help visitors find the venue for the " Language Conferance"
I'm not kidding!! But I was glad that day I was a member of staff in another quite unrelated department.
Adrian
A lot of what is being commented on here seems to be the apparent invasion of the English language by the American language. I suppose it should not be surprising given the Hollywood culture. It makes you somewhat sympathetic to the French approach to attempt (largely without succeeding) to maintain the purity of their language from foreign invasion from things like "le weekend".
When I came to the US, I had a tough time adjusting to some of the usages, spellings and pronunciations, and 35 years on, I still cannot bring myself to say "tomato" or "schedule" in a way that is comprehensible to most american ears. Some usages can be confusing as well as sources of friction ("tabling" an idea in the US means to start discussing it...exactly not what a Brit would understand was being proposed to happen to their idea). I was familiar with the idea that "ou" was often changed to "o" (favour to favor), but still have to think hard when presented with a word that I had learned should contain an "oe" that has been changed here to "e" (oesophagus becomes esophagus).
Reverting to the original postings, my pet peeves include the confusion between affect and effect (now ignored by most spell checkers), and the phrase "on the other tact" ...fingernails on a blackboard to me. In the spoken language here, in addition to the "nucular" one (often paired on the TV with a photo of a cooling tower...what is that coming out the top, "nucular smoke"?) is the spread of the simple word "ask" being pronounced as "aks".
If anyone is really into this stuff, Paul Brian's website is quite useful: http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/errors.html#errors (http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/errors.html#errors)
Quote from: Tdm on April 14, 2015, 04:08:12 PM
Quote from: Jack on April 14, 2015, 03:50:41 PM
Quote from: Adrian on April 14, 2015, 12:01:53 PM
The one that really gets me going is the widespread use today of "train station".
I can't be the only one on here who was brought up with "railway station", can I?
You are not alone, on a similar theme; people seem to fly in airplanes.... >:( :telloff: They are not airplanes, they are aeroplanes!
Not if your talking "Jefferson Airplane" - once had an LP of theirs but don't know what happened to it. :)
Jefferson Airplane is/was an
American Rock Band... We are discussing a point of
English :-X
Well at least they didn't put LOL at the end.
I can never understand the constant use of LOL often after just a normal statement or sentence that isn't even remotely funny.
Allan
My wife, who is Japanese, speaks excellent English, and for the most part with very British inflections. However I do need on occasion to remind her that there's no "d" in words like "thirty" or "party", and "zee" is what German speakers say when they mean "the". There's also some cross-pollution with "Japanese English" words which are not used in any English dialect which cause confusion from time to time. The other day she asked me to hand me an item of (something which sounded like an Anglo-Saxon proper name) clothing - I've forgotten already - which turned out to mean "striped". In the same way that a "Hotchkiss" (or hotchikusu) is a stapler here, named after the (American?) inventor or marketer or whatever.
Looking at things from the Japanese side, literacy is highly valued here and there's no such thing as the "Grocer's Apostrophe" LOL and it's a very rare event if you see so much as a misplaced character (which is a minor miracle bearing in mind it's a language seemingly designed by masochists). In fact it veers towards the other extreme - a business email which in English speaking countries would go something like this: "Hi Mike, Got it, thanks, Railsquid" in Japanese would be something like "Honourable Smith, It is I, Railsquid, of the humble company Celaphods, Inc. I am honoured to have received your prior communication. In consideration of your position on this matter I am pleased to say we are able to offer our full understanding and cooperation in this field of endeavour.".
Does that mean we have to addess you as "Honourable Railsquid" in the future? :)
The one that gets me worked up is the common mispronunciation of Omega, as in Omega-3, especially in adverts, and even by TV presenters who should know better. I have been heard to shout at the TV "It's Oh-mega, not Ameega. Omega is the Greek letter O. Amiga is a Spanish girlfriend." Grrr. >:( :veryangry:
Chris
Hai, Squiddy-san (bows deeply)
Quote from: MalcolmAL on April 14, 2015, 09:10:58 PM
Quote from: Dorsetmike on April 14, 2015, 09:26:22 AM
RAF boy entrant who after over a year of electronics training still mis-spelt magnet as magnat. As for those who mix up their, there and they're ... ... ... ...
One of my pleasures ( simple pleasures !) is to recount how I used to build radios and other bits of electronics in the days of yore with Geranium transistors, and then watch the cogwheels of the brain turn whilst (s)he tried to work out if it would be polite to correct me :)
MalcolmAl - I was a valve man. I built communication receivers and hifi amplifiers using loads of those lovely valves. The thing about valves was that you could see if all was well by the colour of the anodes and the screen grids. If something was wrong you had quite a bit of warning and a chance to switch off and put things right.
As for transistors, especially in the early days - if your circuit didn't work then there was a good chance you had stuffed your transistors. Usually no warning, no smoke, just a stuffed transistor - immediately. Plus they weren't cheap in the early days. There was a real temptation to assume the transistor was a bad one and just put in a new replacement to end up with another dead one.... More pocket money gone.... Hey Ho those were the days. - I used to love what transistors could do but hate the way they bit you on the arris.
:beers:
Also going back, RAF days, radar with loads of CV1091s, - AKA EF50s, a Hallicrafter SX25 with a pair of 6V6s for output. Much later building my own controllers wit a CMOS chip BC109s, 1N4148s and a 3055 or TIP31 output, (still using one, excellent crawl, minutes to cover 12")
What a very pleasant thread this has become - thank you everybody.
I think it demonstrates how members of this Forum can interact well.
Great reading - more tomorrow?
Adrian
PS going back to the airplane/aeroplane mention - my two year old grandson sees them regularly over Duxford and calls them "air p planes!
And his Mum who is French, has a PHd and is a research scientist regularly takes him for a walek (walk!)
Even though I too remember building valve stuff and gerANium transistors, I must Kindle insist we stare on topic ;)
I have no problem with folk starting a new thread on old electronic techniques and devices, however. I'm sure we have many members who would be interested. :thumbsup:
That's ok.... put it down to Tasmanian time leg lag ;)
Quote from: fisherman on April 13, 2015, 04:30:12 PM
.... maybe respitory is a modern word for 'spitoon'...
....clang.........
No respitory is the place in the hospital they send you when they have no idea what is wrong you but they admit you are ill
And then there are the local 'dialects'; aka 'English as she might be spoke' - by someone.
When I was doing my TESOL (English as a Second language) training, the class I was part of, was required to do a classroom-style teaching session, with the presenting student to be to be critiqued by their fellow class members. I was the only European in my particular group, with the others being variously from South Korea, mainland China and Taiwan. The class supervisor was European (and the Head of the Languages Department).
Grammar formed part of the presentation, with each of us being allocated a specific word-type (noun, verb, adjective etc.) and being required to give a 30 minute-long presentation on the allocated topic (I was given 'Nouns', BTW).
I had heard that Asians had problems with the pronunciation of various letters of the English alphabet (especially the letter 'R') but had never really believed it, until we were presented with a very well crafted, well thought-out, and beautifully-presented discourse on English 'Verbs'. Nothing wrong with the way it was done, EXCEPT, that the very-well educated Korean lady who was 'teaching' could not pronounce the letter 'V' and the word 'Verb' came across as 'Werb'...
I discovered in the course of the presentation that it is EXTREMELY difficult to keep a straight face and make 'neutral' comments when presented with such a detail. No one else (being Asian themselves) saw (or heard) anything wrong with the 'word' and the supervisor made no comment... I had definitely learnt a new word (no, not 'verd' - too Germanic) to add to my vocabulary.
It was an 'interesting' session..
BTW (and FWIW): 'Kringlish' (Korean English - the term that the Koran's themselves use) and 'Chinglish' (Chinese English; again, the term that the Chinese use to define their version of English) are actual 'official' versions of the English language, with 'Chinglish' being spoken with as large a population as that using 'original' English. (Thought you might like to know).
Quote from: newportnobby on April 14, 2015, 09:37:31 PM
Hai, Squiddy-san (bows deeply)
Well if you're going to bow that deeply, at least use the appropriately honourific "Squiddy-sama" :beers:
Quote from: Tdm on April 14, 2015, 07:16:25 PM
Does that mean we have to addess you as "Honourable Railsquid" in the future? :)
Good heavens no (though my team of crack Ninjas may feel differently :D )
Quote from: railsquid on April 16, 2015, 12:08:34 AM
Well if you're going to bow that deeply, at least use the appropriately honourific "Squiddy-sama"
Tsk, Railsquid. "Honorific" is non-u if you include a "u" as it retains the original English spelling, unlike its root-word, "honor", which was perverted in the eighteenth century by a desire to be fashionably French. Thanks to the Pilgrim Fathers, Americans preserve the English spellings of such words as "color" and "theater" while we use the French spellings.
Why do we call it "spelling"? Individual Anglo-Saxon runes represented physical objects and when you combined these ingredients in a word you were making a recipe for magic - a spell!
English spelling is endlessly fascinating: "rhyme" is a spelling mistake for "rime", the A-S word, as the writer of the first English text-book on poetry knew that "rhythm" was Greek and assumed that "rhyme" should be cognate; "reconnoitre" is spelled with an "oi" and "reconnaissance" with an "ai" because we borrowed the former during the War of Spanish Succession and the latter during the Napoleonic Wars - the French had reformed the spelling of "oi" words in the century between.
Quote from: LAandNQFan on April 16, 2015, 12:59:18 AM
Quote from: railsquid on April 16, 2015, 12:08:34 AM
Well if you're going to bow that deeply, at least use the appropriately honourific "Squiddy-sama"
Tsk, Railsquid. "Honorific" is non-u if you include a "u" as it retains the original English spelling, unlike its root-word, "honor", which was perverted in the eighteenth century by a desire to be fashionably French. Thanks to the Pilgrim Fathers, Americans preserve the English spellings of such words as "color" and "theater" while we use the French spellings.
Why do we call it "spelling"? Individual Anglo-Saxon runes represented physical objects and when you combined these ingredients in a word you were making a recipe for magic - a spell!
English spelling is endlessly fascinating: "rhyme" is a spelling mistake for "rime", the A-S word, as the writer of the first English text-book on poetry knew that "rhythm" was Greek and assumed that "rhyme" should be cognate; "reconnoitre" is spelled with an "oi" and "reconnaissance" with an "ai" because we borrowed the former during the War of Spanish Succession and the latter during the Napoleonic Wars - the French had reformed the spelling of "oi" words in the century between.
Dayumm... Well at least we can blame the French for the confusion :D Mind you for many years I thought "gaol" was an archaic word meaning "jail" but pronounced "gawul" or something. And for even more years (until computers started red-underlining words they thought are incorrect, which is a bit of a double-edged sword in my most humblest of opinions) I had been writing "thankyou" instead of "thank you".
Quote from: MalcolmAL on April 16, 2015, 01:10:20 AM
Quote from: railsquid on April 16, 2015, 12:08:34 AM
Quote from: newportnobby on April 14, 2015, 09:37:31 PM
Hai, Squiddy-san (bows deeply)
Well if you're going to bow that deeply, at least use the appropriately honourific "Squiddy-sama" :beers:
You cant leave it hanging there,
I must insist you explain the subtlties (to us lesser mortals )
"san" is the standard "neutral" form, "sama" is more formal. As a general rule, people you are aquainted with (but not family or friends) you'd address as "Surname-san", but people you don't know/who are in a "higher" position than you would be "Surname-sama" (and letters are always addressed to Surname-sama"). Then there's a whole confusing variety of honorific levels of grammar which further complicate things which I won't go into now as it's too early in the morning.
Talking about spelling... and Japanese... here's a rant I posted elsewhere:
Welcome to Japan... they do things... differently here. Like... no road names. Well, many more major roads do have names, but they never form part of an official address, and your average residential street will merely be a strip of tarmac between numbered blocks (which are numbered subblocks of a numbered block of a subdistrict), upon which sit houses numbered in seemingly random, and often duplicate fashion. Such as Chez Railsquid. The way to differentiate between identically numbered houses is by the nameplate, which is usually displayed somewhere visible. On the plus side, identically numbered houses will be contiguous. Oh, and names are a whole other ballgame of fun, to which point I shall return later. First, an example address would look like this:
150-1234
Tokyo-to
Nantoka-ku
Meiromachi 4-15-22
Tananaka-sama
which is:
Postal code
City name (in this case Tokyo)
Borough name
Subdistrict name, block 4, sub-block 15, plot 22 (which may or may not be unique)
Honorifically Mr or Mrs. Tanaka
If the address is a block of flats, the flat number and usually the building name (which will often be some semi-random combination of foreign words, I use to live close to a block of flats called - literally - "Ripe One"), will be appended.
Clear?
Now, about the names... they're usually written in Kanji (Chinese characters), and especially when it comes to names, Japanese is a total fustercluck. I refer you to the famous Monty Python "Raymond Luxury-Yacht" sketch (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyQvjKqXA0Y) ("it's pronounced Throatwobbler-Mangrove"). This is Japan. Every. Clucking. Day. Let's zip back to the "subdistrict name", in my example "Meiromachi". The "machi" literally means "town" or "settlement". Logical, you might think. Yes... but for historical reasons it has two pronunciations, "machi" which is etymologically Japanese, and "cho", which originates from Chinese. Aaaaand... there is no earthly way you can tell from the Chinese character for a given location whether it's "machi" or "cho". You just have to know. True story - one place I was living, it took me about 6 weeks before I realised I was pronouncing part of my address incorrectly.
Any questions?
This is fascinating; thanks to all who have contributed so far.
There is however another area of the English language that is so far untouched, and into which I (as being the product of only one generation) can only make a limited foray; the language of the contemporaneous 'Youth Culture'.
Irrespective of when we were born we have all been part of it as 'our' generation has made its way through the teen and early twenties age bracket, before finally settling down and becoming 'conformists' (even though some of us still aren't - even in our later years). Who for instance amongst the Baby Boomer generation (of which I am one) remembers such words and phrases as 'Hip', 'Gear', Fab', 'Outasight', Right On, 'Like wow', and 'Man', and can use them in their correct context; words and phrases that at the time we thought were so terribly 'anti' the establishment we were 'rebelling' against - never, ever, realising that in fact (and with time) WE would become that self-same establishment?
And who amongst 'Boomers' (for example) can make any sense of any of the language of the generations that have followed ours - the 'in-house' language used by our Children, Grand children and, (in some cases) Great grand children? Or of the way that our supposedly 'proper' English that we laboured-over with such effort, could have become degraded (contaminated?) by the imports from 'overseas' - whether from Europe or the USA?
Irrespective of our generation (whether 'Depression, Wartime, 'Boomer, Gen' X', Gen 'Y' or Milleniall'), we simply don't 'speak the language; and, should we even attempt to, immediately date ourselves by the inflexions we use and the emphasis we place; displaying our 'ignorance' to 'those in the know'; to often merciless derision and scorn. The fact that we did exactly the same to our parents and them to theirs, is of course something that, in our confusion and embarrassment we usually forget.
It has of course always been so, so it is pointless to even try (although that is only something that comes with unfortunate experience). But one day, they too will be 'Just like us' and face the same situations of total incomprehension. Their 'Turn' will come!!
They just don't realise it...
A comforting thought isn't it (even if we probably won't be around to savour the moment, and take delight in the irony)?
I'm still very concerned about Squiddy's ninjas having a go at a certain part of my body :worried:
In viewof the many "incomprehensible" replies to this thread, I think I will have another go at learning "Spanish" - seems a more straightforward and simpler language.
Just wonder where Spanish has it's roots as it seems similar in certain respects to Latin which I was supposed to learn at Grammar School - but didn't.
As regards English - I will stick to Lancashire English as I understand that - and I did pass my English Language & English Literature "O" level exams at school before I left to start work in a Bank - but that is another story.
I am slightly dyslexic, but take some pride in my writing and hope that most people understand (comprehend) what I am trying to say. However whenever I type something on my PC I have always to "Preview" it, as it usually appears on screen as something entirely different to what I thought I had written and I then have to correct it.
I think my computer keyboard has a mind of it's own!
Tdm
You are to a degree correct about the origins of the Spanish language in regards to Latin. Its evolution is somewhat complicated, but for a very quick precis concerning its origins , might I suggest that, although I dislike Wiki as an authoritative information source,you undertake a 'Google' search under the heading 'Spanish language - Wikipedia'. as I believe it will provide you with at least some of the 'background' information that you are enquiring about.
Hoping that it helps, que tenga un buen día.
Quote from: Tdm on April 16, 2015, 11:19:42 PM
Just wonder where Spanish has it's roots as it seems similar in certain respects to Latin which I was supposed to learn at Grammar School - but didn't.
All the Romance languages - French, Italian, Spanish etc. - developed from Vulgar (spoken) Latin, by a process of 'mistakes' being gradually accepted and codified. There's an old glossary of Latin misspellings which shows how pronunciation (and hence spelling) was changing in France in the 3rd-4th century A.D.:
http://www.orbilat.com/Languages/Latin_Vulgar/Vocabulary/Appendix_Probi.html (http://www.orbilat.com/Languages/Latin_Vulgar/Vocabulary/Appendix_Probi.html)
calida non calda: i.e.
calida is correct,
calda (Italian
calda, French
chaud = hot, cf. English
scald) is wrong.
The same process took place in the other Romance languages.
So that's why my Romance language chat up lines never worked! :doh:
Quote from: newportnobby on April 17, 2015, 02:22:58 PM
So that's why my Romance language chat up lines never worked! :doh:
What as in " Getta youra coata on, you asa beena pulled ! :P
Jerry
Romani Eunt Domus !!!!!!
Quote from: railsquid on April 16, 2015, 01:32:10 AM
I thought "gaol" was an archaic word meaning "jail" but pronounced "gawul" or something.
I notice lots of 'spelling pronunciations' creeping in on Radio 4. 'Gambol' (lambs in the fields), pronounced phonetically with two clear syllables, which always used to be homophonic with 'gamble'. And is there anyone left who can pronounce gene
alogy correctly?
Quote from: fisherman on April 17, 2015, 04:50:20 PM
Romani Eunt Domus !!!!!!
Romans they go in the house ? You are in big trouble now Brian...
Quote from: Jerry Howlett on April 17, 2015, 05:25:51 PM
Quote from: fisherman on April 17, 2015, 04:50:20 PM
Romani Eunt Domus !!!!!!
Romans they go in the house ? You are in big trouble now Brian...
So now we're into Latin graffiti with dubious grammar (dative, schmative)? Where's that new member Nigel Molesworth when you need him?
Latin is a language
As dead as dead can be
It killed off all the Romans
And now it's killing me
:P
Meanwhile - back to the thread topic maybe.................. ::)
Apart from the usual "brought" rather than "bought" etc etc. and despite spell checks being everywhere we never seem to use them, the one for me now is...
"that looks well"
...well ...what? Good, bad, well done, :poop: or otherwise??? It's not a finished sentence!
I only speak one language apart from "ich habe meine hausaufgaben vergessen" which I am thoroughly ashamed of :doh: Every foreigner I meet has a better grasp of English grammar than I have. But I do so hate text speak and slack english on home grounds.
Quote from: RST on April 20, 2015, 11:39:28 PM"ich habe meine hausaufgaben vergessen" which I am thoroughly ashamed of :doh:
errr I think you may need to explain that one ! You see the trouble we English have is not knowing which other language to learn (apart from americain !), so if you could just get all those furrainers to agree on a common one then we'll learn it !
Quoteslack english on home grounds.
errr, that'd be coffee ? Home is singular !
mahatmacoat >>> whoosh >
Quote from: RST on April 20, 2015, 11:39:28 PM
Apart from the usual "brought" rather than "bought" etc etc. and despite spell checks being everywhere we never seem to use them, the one for me now is...
"that looks well"
...well ...what? Good, bad, well done, :poop: or otherwise??? It's not a finished sentence!grammar than I have. But I do so hate text speak and slack english on home grounds.
"that looks well wicked"?
Quote from: RST on April 20, 2015, 11:39:28 PM
I only speak one language apart from "ich habe meine hausaufgaben vergessen" which I am thoroughly ashamed of :doh: Every foreigner I meet has a better grasp of English grammar than I have. But I do so hate text speak and slack english on home grounds.
Tssssk tssssk, Nouns are capitalized in German. "Ich habe meine Hausaufgaben vergessen".
If it's any consolation, German is getting increasingly polluted by "Denglisch", which is often cringeworthy, especially when wielded by someone with an at most borderline grasp of the original meaning. "Handy" (pronounced "Haendy") meaning "mobile (telephone)" is one of my pet hates.
Quote from: scotsoft on April 13, 2015, 02:58:31 PM
Guess what the sign writer was supposed to paint??? :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing:
[smg id=23990 type=preview align=center caption="oops 01"]
[smg id=23991 type=full align=center caption="oops 02"]
cheers John.
Reminds me a little of Canadian Bacon...
Follow The Rules (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5l0PD80u9k#)
But Malcolm, we DID '...Get all those furrainers to agree on a common one....' (even those north of the Border) It's called 'English'.
The fact there there is 'American' English (yes, really; they do actually speak a recognised form of the 'Mother tongue), 'Canadian' English, 'Australian' English (well, they try), 'New Zealand' English,' South African' English, 'Kringlish', 'Chinglish', 'Indian' English (the language that united a continent BTW) 'Geordie', 'Cockney' 'Liverpuddlian' and 'Scouse' to say nothing of 'Standard Perceived English' (aka BBC English) is of course a minor point. One 'common' (some would say 'very' common) language does 'unite them all.
Thought you might like to know...
BTW: You will have noticed that i have not included the 'exotic' variants - they ara justa tooa many tooa lista
One that gets my goat is the use of billion. The press insists on using the American meaning of 1000 million when it should mean a million million.
Wasn't it Bob Hope who said "England and America are two countries divided by a common language"?
Quote from: steve836 on April 21, 2015, 08:40:03 AM
One that gets my goat is the use of billion. The press insists on using the American meaning of 1000 million when it should mean a million million.
Wasn't it Bob Hope who said "England and America are two countries divided by a common language"?
Which is why we English state we are going to have a bath/shower/ :poop: etc., whereas North Americans take said bath/shower. Where are they taking it to, and why?
How many people are seen speaking on TV where every other word seems to be 'like', and sentences are littered with 'you know'?
Why, when asked how someone is, do they reply with 'I'm good'. Utter nonsense.
Another one the yoof of today use is 'I swear down' ???
QuoteWhy, when asked how someone is, do they reply with 'I'm good'. Utter nonsense.
Too true.
I'll decide if you're good, not you!
Quote from: oscar on April 21, 2015, 09:35:37 AM
QuoteWhy, when asked how someone is, do they reply with 'I'm good'. Utter nonsense.
Too true. I'll decide if you're good, not you!
When a lady says "I'm good" after an enquiry as to the state of her health I usually reply "That's a shame" and when asked why I reply "bad women are much more fun."
npn
So you have the 'yoof' as well in the UK? I thought they were a 'colonial' aberration inflicted on the unsuspecting inhabitants of a couple of south sea islands. It would seem that we are not the only 'unfortunates'; you have my sincere sympathy for the affliction.
BTW: 'Like' and ' 'You know' are distinctly American (I won't go into their origins, interesting though they are - at least to some), and could be considered a form of 'reverse linguistic imperialism' brought (very thoughtfully) into your homes via social media and TV and videos.
Steve836
FWIW: The quote "England and America are two countries divided by a common language" is generally attributed to George Bernard Shaw, although Oscar Wilde has also been advanced as a contender for the title of the first person to make the statement. Note however that there is some doubt as to whether either individual actually made the utterance, so perhaps it should be placed in the 'unattributed' category - at least in the interim?
Quote from: oscar on April 21, 2015, 09:35:37 AM
QuoteWhy, when asked how someone is, do they reply with 'I'm good'. Utter nonsense.
Too true. I'll decide if you're good, not you!
I usually follow that one with "I asked how you were, not what your moral standards are like" - completely perplexed expression guaranteed :D
One that I haven't seen mentioned yet is how the phrase ". . . from the word go" has become ". . . from the
get go"? Grammatical nonsense.
Paul
One phrase that makes me chuckle when on the phone is "will you bear with me a moment" I am often tempted to reply "OK what shall we take off first?"
Quote from: Dorsetmike on April 21, 2015, 12:10:20 PM
One phrase that makes me chuckle when on the phone is "will you bear with me a moment" I am often tempted to reply "OK what shall we take off first?"
Me too! especially if the person is female with a sexy voice!
Quote from: Komata on April 21, 2015, 10:12:07 AM
FWIW: The quote "England and America are two countries divided by a common language" is generally attributed to George Bernard Shaw, although Oscar Wilde has also been advanced as a contender
Well well, all my life I have thought that it was W. Churchill, amazing wot one learns on forams these days :)
NPN : I suppose I do not spend enuf time amongst yooufs, I have no idea what 'I swear down' is or means, or is supposed to transfer !
When asked how I am I often reply " Oh, struggling on {sigh} struggling on, as one does ! "
Quote
When asked how I am I often reply " Oh, struggling on {sigh} struggling on, as one does ! "
I usually respond with "Straining up under the bear ... errrrr, no, um ...Staring up under the brain?? ... ah no .... ... bearing up under the strain! ... ... thassit! "
Quote from: Dorsetmike on April 21, 2015, 12:10:20 PM
One phrase that makes me chuckle when on the phone is "will you bear with me a moment" I am often tempted to reply "OK what shall we take off first?"
I live in the middle of a patch woodland and partially cleared undergrowth, a veg patch and some formal gardens - when the leaves come out in spring I cannot see my neighbours , ,
I often go bear,
dear deer , fox, badger, rabbit etc.
:) :) too much info ;) ?
I think it is time to get back to my engine shed :laugh:
Quote from: Komata on April 21, 2015, 10:12:07 AMFWIW: The quote "England and America are two countries divided by a common language" is generally attributed to George Bernard Shaw, although Oscar Wilde has also been advanced as a contender for the title of the first person to make the statement. Note however that there is some doubt as to whether either individual actually made the utterance, so perhaps it should be placed in the 'unattributed' category - at least in the interim?
It grates on my nerves when I hear someone British pronounce schedule as "skedule". Too many American
cop show police dramas methinks... No problem with Americans saying it that way though.
Quote from: Komata on April 21, 2015, 06:28:12 AM
But Malcolm, we DID '...Get all those furrainers to agree on a common one....' (even those north of the Border) It's called 'English'.
Yes quite so !
but my beef (of olde England ) is with those who would interject obscure other lingos and then accuse us (english) of not being multi-lingual (as though we were incapable) for not unnerstanding, non learning, which one ? German, Latin, Manderin ( a mine field !), look at the millions spent on translation in EU (been there done that,plenary sessions fully translated - - woikin meets all done in english ! )
Quote from: Dorsetmike on April 21, 2015, 09:57:16 PM
Quote
When asked how I am I often reply " Oh, struggling on {sigh} struggling on, as one does ! "
I usually respond with "Straining up under the bear ... errrrr, no, um ...Staring up under the brain?? ... ah no .... ... bearing up under the strain! ... ... thassit! "
When we are asked that we inevitably reply I woke up this morning and I am upright ta dah
:laugh:
Quote from: MalcolmAL on April 21, 2015, 09:45:56 PM
NPN : I suppose I do not spend enuf time amongst yooufs, I have no idea what 'I swear down' is or means, or is supposed to transfer !
It's the yoof culture's way of saying "I can assure you it's true", Malcolm.
I take it you have some young nephews or nieces, Mick, or are you just a youngster at heart?
Quote from: Malc on April 22, 2015, 01:05:58 PM
I take it you have some young nephews or nieces, Mick, or are you just a youngster at heart?
I have 2 nieces (who have turned out very well) and a nephew (who's an absolute moron who hasn't), Malc. Guess which of them came out with the phrase ::)
(Plus I've heard it used on the telly)
As for being young at heart I guess I'd like to think so but sadly my heart seems to be ageing faster than any other part of me :worried: :'(
I'm sure when I was younger we spoke proper like. I don't remember over use of the word literally like it is today. A youngster the other day said "I literally died with laughter". I didn't try to correct her as I knew it would be a waste of time. As for the "Can I get............" rather than "Can/May I have......" well, I correct those every time with a simple NO. They always look bemused too.
People who start their answer to a question with "Yeah no", make your mind up, it can only be one of them!
I could literally go on for ages, some say I usually do, but I won't today.
I hate when unnecessary words are added after abreviations.
Even on so called technical TV programmes they will have AC current or DC current. It is not alternating current current, it is just AC, likewise with DC.
Also people who have PIN numbers. No they have a PIN, not a personal identification number number.
These to name just a few. :'(
Why have the two words "work ethic" crept into everything?
All I hear from football players is "Today our work ethic was great". Do they actually know what that really means I wonder ?
Going back to the differences between "our" language and the language our kids use I think it was the same in the sixties when I grew up.
I remember thinking my parents were weird because of some of the expressions they used such as "strewth", or "you look like the wreck of the Hesperus". How "square" can you get ?
My Dad was worse because he was Irish, and you had to be Irish to understand some of what he said.
Best regards,
Joe
Quote from: port perran on April 26, 2015, 07:57:55 PM
Why have the two words "work ethic" crept into everything?
All I hear from football players is "Today our work ethic was great". Do they actually know what that really means I wonder ?
The most recent annoying phrase is "Fred Bloggs (or someone else) put a shift in today". Now as much as I like football not one of those players has a clue what it's like to "put a shift in" :veryangry:
Quote from: Trainfish on April 26, 2015, 08:31:23 PM
Quote from: port perran on April 26, 2015, 07:57:55 PM
Why have the two words "work ethic" crept into everything?
All I hear from football players is "Today our work ethic was great". Do they actually know what that really means I wonder ?
The most recent annoying phrase is "Fred Bloggs (or someone else) put a shift in today". Now as much as I like football not one of those players has a clue what it's like to "put a shift in" :veryangry:
Unless they play for Galway UTD ;)
At least they beat Bray Wanderers to move up to 8th in the league at the weekend :thumbsup:
What is it with the trend over the past few years for using inverse proportions - "ten times smaller" rather than "a tenth of the size"?
The other annoying statement is "two times" instead of twice.
Another that annoys me :
"At this point in time".
What's wrong with NOW.
Quote from: port perran on April 28, 2015, 02:32:43 PM
Another that annoys me :
"At this point in time".
What's wrong with NOW.
Ooh, management speak ;D
That's a whole other world in terms of embellishing a word into a whole phrase! :D
Paul
Quote from: Malc on April 28, 2015, 01:19:07 PM
The other annoying statement is "two times" instead of twice.
I mentioned that one to the wife yesterday. (True story)
(Not so true story) Of course she didn't actually hear me the first time so I had to say it again. Erm............
One phrase that annoys me is "Going forward" - I think people mean "In future".
Quote from: Agrippa on April 13, 2015, 02:49:44 PM
The people who made , painted or installed the sign are just ignorant
sods, it's that simple.
They are very smart. If they point out errors on signs people order they get abuse, if they keep quiet they get guaranteed repeat business 8)
Alan
Quote from: port perran on April 28, 2015, 02:32:43 PM
Another that annoys me :
"At this point in time".
What's wrong with NOW.
They don't quite mean the same thing and the latter can be ambiguous ?
At least in spoken form there are two meanings to
"Now, we know Dave is a twit"
one is that we have made a recent discovery about Dave and we didn't know he was a twit before this. The other is that it's something we all know about Dave and is being introduced as a point of argument or reasoning in the sense of "Given that Dave is a twit, we should plan to ...."
For cases like "now the XYZ is not selling well" the distinction is important.
On the other hand every time I see "going forward..." with respect to something that isn't an object that moves I get the urge to pointedly score it out and replace it with "In future" or "From now on" (or frequently "X didn't work, lets try Y"). It seems to mostly be a management speak way of avoiding saying "the old plan failed".
Alan
A company I worked for was full of people who were always
running things up the flagpole
touching base
doing the numbers
going the extra mile
The company ( Tenon financial group) went bust, because
the people who did the numbers did them wrongly...
Quote from: Agrippa on April 29, 2015, 11:09:23 AM
The company ( Tenon financial group) went bust, because
the people who did the numbers did them wrongly...
Probably cos of too much blue sky thinking moving forward. :hmmm:
Quote from: austinbob on April 29, 2015, 11:11:52 AM
Quote from: Agrippa on April 29, 2015, 11:09:23 AM
The company ( Tenon financial group) went bust, because
the people who did the numbers did them wrongly...
Probably cos of too much blue sky thinking moving forward. :hmmm:
Thinking out of the box here but taking a helicopter view of it I think you're right ;)
Paul
Amazing thread! keep it going please, for me as a Spaniard in the UK this is priceless...
(don't be too harsh about my English :uneasy:)
Your English is probably better than half the galoots shuffling about
the streets slurping coffee with their headphones at full blast.
Slightly different was one boss who would frequently say
"Don't confuse me with facts my mind's made up"
:smiley-laughing:
I live in West Yorkshire.... sometimes I have a hard time trying to work out people's accents
Quote from: Agrippa on April 29, 2015, 11:56:48 AM
Your English is probably better than half the galoots shuffling about
the streets slurping coffee with their headphones at full blast.
You can always tell a Yorkshireman, but you can't tell him much...
We have two choices; to model in N gauge or OO.
NO! that's ONE choice!!!!!!!!!!
That's mine out!
Jon :)
Quote from: deibid on April 29, 2015, 12:01:41 PM
:smiley-laughing:
I live in West Yorkshire.... sometimes I have a hard time trying to work out people's accents
In the second world war they had this wonderful idea that reading the news in local dialects would confound the enemy. Unfortunately it confounded most of the UK as well 8)
Quote from: dannyboy on April 29, 2015, 02:28:03 AM
One phrase that annoys me is "Going forward"
Me too! I reckon it's management-speak designed to create the illusion of dynamism.
Another one I hate is 'convince' (to do something) instead of 'persuade' etc. 'Convince' always used to be about beliefs, not willingness.
As a student of language history I realize that these shifts in meaning and usage are part of normal language development. I suppose what annoys me most is the uncritical way people replace clear, tried and tested usages with imprecise or ambiguous ones, or Americanisms where we had perfectly good English usages (the ubiquitous 'aka' instead of 'alias', for instance).
An annoying trend, usually used on tv or radio news is "understand", used instead of "have heard ",
such as "We understand the car was doing 100 mph when it crashed etc".
Further annoying phrases/words, often used on the forum , is trackage
instead of track. After all you don't say I'm going to the supermarket
to buy milkage or butterage.
I'm going to try that... go to the local Morrisons and ask "where is the milkage love?"
Sure... it will work!
Quote from: Agrippa on April 29, 2015, 03:48:54 PM
An annoying trend, usually used on tv or radio news is "understand", used instead of "have heard ",
such as "We understand the car was doing 100 mph when it crashed etc".
I don't have any problem with that. It's been around ever since I was a youngster and according to the New Shorter Oxford goes back to Old English: "to accept as true without positive knowledge or certainty".
The one I hate is the use of "impact" as a verb (except for dentistry).
"Affected by" seems to have been replaced by "impacted by" in business-speak.
Best regards,
Joe
Quote from: joe cassidy on April 29, 2015, 10:20:32 PM
The one I hate is the use of "impact" as a verb (except for dentistry).
And how about 'gift' as a verb?! What's wrong with 'donate"?
Quote from: PostModN66 on April 29, 2015, 12:16:47 PM
We have two choices; to model in N gauge or OO.
NO! that's ONE choice!!!!!!!!!!
And I would love to see the wiring diagrams of those people who think that they can have more than a pair of alternatives. :scowl:
English gives you plenty of
options as it has never been embarrassed about borrowing words from other languages. The problem arises when deciding whether a borrowing adds richness or debases what we already have.
There's only two kinds of english - British and wrong! :bounce:
The only chance right, what Johnny Foreigner has right, is to speak it prop'ly like what we do 'ere. i'n'it...
Bah, humbug.....
Quote from: LAandNQFan on April 30, 2015, 12:12:01 AM
The problem arises when deciding whether a borrowing adds richness or debases what we already have.
Speaking of which, how come some folks say 'lend' when they mean 'borrow', as in "Can I lend a fiver?" when they actually mean "Can
you lend
me a fiver?"
Used to get that one a lot in school, "Can I lend your pen?". Usually met with "who do you want to lend it to?" - cue blank looks of confusion :D
Paul
Quote from: newportnobby on April 30, 2015, 03:11:03 AM
Quote from: LAandNQFan on April 30, 2015, 12:12:01 AM
The problem arises when deciding whether a borrowing adds richness or debases what we already have.
Speaking of which, how come some folks say 'lend' when they mean 'borrow', as in "Can I lend a fiver?" when they actually mean "Can you lend me a fiver?"
Not always so simple as "wrong". Geordie does that and also things like "I'll learn you" but that at least is from the Anglo-Saxon and isn't a misuse of "learn" just the survival of an old word (Laeran) into modern times.
A lot of other "wrong according to London" English is similar. "No I didn't do nothing" for example is mirroring Celtic languages where repeated negatives are emphatic. It's just English was mashed together from languages where "I didn't do nothing" meant "I most definitely didn't do it" and those where "I didn't do nothing" meant I did something.
English it is said doesn't so much as borrow words from other languages as grab them by the throat and help itself 8)
Alan
This is fascinating! I didn't know that Celtic languages had the double negative...same as Spanish, that had its good share of Celtic influence as well
Never quite figured why highly inflammable means highly flammable,
when inflexible and flexible are opposites.
Quote from: deibid on April 30, 2015, 12:13:15 PM
This is fascinating! I didn't know that Celtic languages had the double negative...same as Spanish, that had its good share of Celtic influence as well
The double-negative "rule" came into modern English after the sixteenth century. Shakespeare frequently uses the OE and ME multiple-negatives-add-emphasis form.
Maybe this is in the realm of "urban legend", but wasn't there an issue when ungated level crossings were being introduced that the signs read "Wait at Line While Lights Flash"? Apparently, that was interpreted in some region(s) as meaning "wait at the line until the lights flash", resulting in a few fatalities. When I heard this related, it was ascribed to the rural northwest, so any Cumbrian natives could comment?
Here in the US South, I have a whole lot of local phrases and meanings to decifer. The obvious one is "y'all" (used to think that was a two-masted boat) and it's plural cousin "all y'all", but you also get things like the universal modifier "bigole" (as in "the sheriff is a bigole bulkyboy and he was drivin' a bigole unmarked pickup when he done me for speeding"... translation, "the fat sheriff was in an unmarked truck when he ticketed me for speeding").
Quote from: Agrippa on April 30, 2015, 12:35:45 PM
Never quite figured why highly inflammable means highly flammable,
when inflexible and flexible are opposites.
It seems that confusion goes all the way back to Latin: check out
in- prefix section here:
http://www.chambers.co.uk/search.php?query=in-&title=21st&sourceid=Mozilla-search (http://www.chambers.co.uk/search.php?query=in-&title=21st&sourceid=Mozilla-search)
I particularly like "used to add emphasis or force, or
sometimes with almost no meaning", as is the case with (in)flammable ;D
Quote from: Agrippa on April 30, 2015, 12:35:45 PM
Never quite figured why highly inflammable means highly flammable,
when inflexible and flexible are opposites.
We often laugh about prawns.
When you see in a recipe used shelled prawns does this mean with or without shells ?
Think about it.
It usually means with no shells but in reality it sound like prawns with shells.
Or is it just us?
Standing about in pubs , as I frequently do, often someone will say
"My big pal's got a new car" or "My big mate's getting married "
etc. Never sure if these pals are tall or longstanding aquaintances.
Quote from: Jon898 on April 30, 2015, 01:53:27 PM
Here in the US South, I have a whole lot of local phrases and meanings to decifer.
Do they really spell 'decipher' that way in the USA, Jon? (Genuine quest for knowledge as opposed to extracting the proverbial)
Quote from: newportnobby on April 30, 2015, 04:40:10 PM
Quote from: Jon898 on April 30, 2015, 01:53:27 PM
Here in the US South, I have a whole lot of local phrases and meanings to decifer.
Do they really spell 'decipher' that way in the USA, Jon? (Genuine quest for knowledge as opposed to extracting the proverbial)
They used to give me spelling tests in geometry class to ensure nobody got 100% for the year, and I had to repeat a whole year of prep school because I failed Greek, so, no they do not spell it that way :dunce: it's just me being what my Cajun former employee would term a "dumbass" (one day, when he had used it with the director of the Indiana Occupational Safety and Health Administration, I had to translate that term as "valued craft worker", but that's another story).
I admit, it looked strange when I typed it...
I often hear that English is one of the most difficult languages for a "foreigner" to learn as it has no real "structure" to it, unlike Spanish and French for example.
I can quite understand that as some of the things we say and write don't really make logical sense when looked at in the light of day. For example :-
"Off to the Pub", "Give us a bell", "I'll bid you goodnight", etc.
There must be thousands of similar examples which must be a nightmare for someone learning English to understand.
Mind you I have just got back from having a biopsy at Wrexham (Wrecsam) Maelor Hospital, and had forgotten what the Welsh (Cymraeg) language is like, but to me hearing so many people speaking Welsh there, also reminded me that in my opinion, a Welsh accent is one of the nicest (if not the nicest) accents of all.
Quote from: Jon898 on April 30, 2015, 01:53:27 PM
Maybe this is in the realm of "urban legend", but wasn't there an issue when ungated level crossings were being introduced that the signs read "Wait at Line While Lights Flash"? Apparently, that was interpreted in some region(s) as meaning "wait at the line until the lights flash", resulting in a few fatalities. When I heard this related, it was ascribed to the rural northwest, so any Cumbrian natives could comment?
Here in the US South, I have a whole lot of local phrases and meanings to decifer. The obvious one is "y'all" (used to think that was a two-masted boat) and it's plural cousin "all y'all", but you also get things like the universal modifier "bigole" (as in "the sheriff is a bigole bulkyboy and he was drivin' a bigole unmarked pickup when he done me for speeding"... translation, "the fat sheriff was in an unmarked truck when he ticketed me for speeding").
The 'while' could be true. I'm a southerner and on holiday in Spain the coach rep, who was northern, when telling us the itineraries, kept saying 'lunch 12 while 3, dinner 6 while 9.30' etc.
We got it but being southern no one asked why.
I hate it when people start a sentence with the word 'listen'. I'm already listening otherwise I wouldn't have heard you. It also sounds like they are giving out an order and I don't like taking orders just like when a waitress gives me my meal and orders me to "enjoy".
Quote from: Tdm on April 30, 2015, 06:46:11 PM
I often hear that English is one of the most difficult languages for a "foreigner" to learn as it has no real "structure" to it, unlike Spanish and French for example.
I can quite understand that as some of the things we say and write don't really make logical sense when looked at in the light of day. For example :-
"Off to the Pub", "Give us a bell", "I'll bid you goodnight", etc.
There must be thousands of similar examples which must be a nightmare for someone learning English to understand.
Mind you I have just got back from having a biopsy at Wrexham (Wrecsam) Maelor Hospital, and had forgotten what the Welsh (Cymraeg) language is like, but to me hearing so many people speaking Welsh there, also reminded me that in my opinion, a Welsh accent is one of the nicest (if not the nicest) accents of all.
Reminds me of a mate of mine who went to the US on an exchange program and got into trouble when, being given a task which required an early start, he told a female co-worker that he would call round in the morning and knock her up. Apparently it means something different across the pond.
Quote from: Jon898 on April 30, 2015, 01:53:27 PM
Maybe this is in the realm of "urban legend", but wasn't there an issue when ungated level crossings were being introduced that the signs read "Wait at Line While Lights Flash"? Apparently, that was interpreted in some region(s) as meaning "wait at the line until the lights flash", resulting in a few fatalities.
The way I heard it was as a joke: "Ah wayted while lights flashed, an a bludy great barrier cam down and stopped me gewin acrost."
Quote from: steve836 on April 30, 2015, 09:57:16 PMthat he would call round in the morning and knock her up. Apparently it means something different across the pond.
Not only but also in the norf of england (specially I fink) in the NEast when 'she' would have been in a bit of a state - - and he also when her father came calling with a shotgun (marriage).
By the way, dont ever try to cheer an American up with the expression "keep your pecker up", mind-u that is not often used any more now in England common speak either.
Quote from: Tdm on April 30, 2015, 06:46:11 PM
I often hear that English is one of the most difficult languages for a "foreigner" to learn as it has no real "structure" to it, unlike Spanish and French for example.
Nope, sorry, gotta disagree, too much structure in them romance languages, too many genders, who ever heard of tables and '(la?) plumes de ma tant' and other assorted inanimate objects having sex ? (German is even worse I am told ? ) I got on very bad with French at school (well, 'bad' is relative, it directed me into the sciencies cos they declared me a duffer at languages ! )
English is the Lingua Franca of the world , despite the fact that many people
don't use proper grammar like wot i do. It's been extremely flexible over
the years and can absorb foreign words and phrases almost automatically
with ease.
eg blitz,safari,algebra,claymore, ski,karaoke , sherry, vandal , skipper
truly the language of the future.
And then there is regional english ! "Ayup lad, where's tha bin?". "Arve bin t'Ilkley Moor bahtat". "Well arll go t'foot of ar stairs". "Sithee later". (This could go on, and on, and on.....! :sorrysign: :smiley-laughing: David.
Quote from: dannyboy on May 01, 2015, 09:49:31 AM
And then there is regional english ! "Ayup lad, where's tha bin?". "Arve bin t'Ilkley Moor bahtat". "Well arll go t'foot of ar stairs". "Sithee later". (This could go on, and on, and on.....! :sorrysign: :smiley-laughing: David.
Oooaaarrr! Thee cassn't do thaaat yur 'sno.
Quote from: dannyboy on May 01, 2015, 09:49:31 AM
And then there is regional english !
When my daughter started keeping sheep she saw me pointing at each in turn saying " Yan, tahn, thether, mether , , ", she thought I was naming them :) [ex-pat Cumberland]
I wonder what language root that was from, Norse ? maybe. Some googling is called for I think.
And regional west of Scottish
gonnae no dae that
geezabreak
gaun yersel big man
pick a windae, yer leavin
Quote from: Agrippa on May 01, 2015, 10:34:21 AM
And regional west of Scottish
When I was in Glasgow I was at first astonished to hear my friend calling his wife (aka missus) "Hen".
I thought he was being disrespectful, but seems it is a term of endearment ? or familiarity ?? up yonder.
Would one get one's eed bashed in if one addressed someone elses wife that way ?
"Hen" is indeed a term of endearment in Glasgow and the west of Scotland.
It can also be used as an informal address to a female stranger such
as a wee wumman in a chippie or paper shop, but less common now.
My mum was from Suffolk and after she married my dad they lived
in Glasgow. My dad's name was James/Jimmy/Jim. In the streets of
Glasgow someone would shout"Hey Jimmy, got the time ? " and my mum
would ask "How did he know your name?"
"Jimmy " dying out now, usually bud, mate or pal as a form of address
from the riff raff.
Quote from: Agrippa on April 30, 2015, 11:51:08 PM
English is the Lingua Franca of the world , despite the fact that many people
don't use proper grammar like wot i do. It's been extremely flexible over
the years and can absorb foreign words and phrases almost automatically
with ease.
eg blitz,safari,algebra,claymore, ski,karaoke , sherry, vandal , skipper
truly the language of the future.
Not to mention (isn't that a silly expression when I'm going to mention) words that came from our colonies such as bungalow
Always thought it was cos they were building a house but ran out of bricks so they had to bung a low roof on it.
Or it was a bungle and they still owe for it?
(dives for cover)
No ,bungalow is the Indian term for a dwelling that only houses one family.
Words like pyjamas , char, have a shifty, wallah, etc came from India .
Curiously in Glasgow a few ago there was a phrase "Get a jildy on"
meaning hurry up, which came from soldiers who had served in India
and had adopted a similar native phrase.
A strange word was "Gutties" , used in the Glasgow area for
plimsolls or trainers, from Gutta Percha, rubber from Malaya
or similar region.
Quote from: Agrippa on May 01, 2015, 11:32:12 AM
wallah, etc came from India .
Hey, yer no rong there Jimmy lad.
But increasingly, amongst the young on t'interwebby, it is derived from French !
( they really mean "et voilà" )
Ah - So!
Quote from: MalcolmAL on May 01, 2015, 11:50:31 AM
Quote from: Agrippa on May 01, 2015, 11:32:12 AM
wallah, etc came from India .
Hey, yer no rong there Jimmy lad.
But increasingly, amongst the young on t'interwebby, it is derived from French !
( they really mean "et voilà" )
No! He's right, a wallah is a bloke wot does as in punka wallah (the chap who waves the fan) char wallah (the bloke that fetches the tea) or dhobi wallah (the chap that does the laundry). As an aside to that the Indian term for laundry is the origin of the expression "Dhobies itch" as it was thought to be caused by residual detergent in clothes.
Quote from: steve836 on May 01, 2015, 12:09:10 PMNo! He's right, a wallah is a bloke wot does
Yes I know he was ! Which is why I said "yer no rong there Jimmy" (Scottish or Norf ? ) meaning "you are not wrong" meaning "yes I agree" !
Then I went on with my "but increasingly ,, "
yer see :)
I think there's also a dabba wallah who takes home cooked billy can type lunches
to workers in big offices etc.
While discussing words from india, why is Gandhi spelt with an H
when it's a native name , and not Gandi/Gandy?
Malcolm
Sorry cross porpoises, however it occured to me later that there are two subtly different ways of saying it, one being from the Indian meaning a person, the other (ex French) as a magician would say. Which is probably where the youngsters get it from.
Agrippa
The H gets in there because it tries to reflect the way an Indian would say the name. Try saying it in a Peter Sellers voice and you will get the idea.
and is it punka wallah, punka-wallah or punkawallah ? I always thought it was the last .
Hands up, who remembers their dhobiwalla using a poss stick ? I do :)
Steve : no prob :)
With regard to the spelling, it's probably a bit of a moot point as India has a different alphabet and the way we write it is just trying to put down a foreign language using ours.
Have watched Indians doing the dhobying and never seen them using a stick, unless a poss stick is Indian for bar of soap.
Quote from: steve836 on May 01, 2015, 12:50:11 PM
Have watched Indians doing the dhobying
I was being a bit economical there, my dhobiwallahs were my gran and my mum who were both English :)
It was the human equivalent of the agitator that used to be in washing machines !
My Gran had a big one, handle on top, prongs at the bottom.
But we still used the term for my mum's little short one which was like half a broom handle fluted length-wise. Mum had a washing machine by then so she only needed a little one to get clothes out of the, hmmmm, I forget, was it the bleach ? or the whitening agent ??
Possibly both.
Now there is an odd thing I've just remembered, the whitening used some blue thing -> google >
My mum had a wash board, rather than an agitator, and used a boiler for whites which she extricated with a pair of tongs. She too used a "blue bag" on whites, I think the idea was that a faint trace of blue made the whites appear whiter.
Quote from: steve836 on May 01, 2015, 01:31:09 PM
My mum had a wash board,
Which made you a fan of Lonnie Donegan as well ? :)
Quote from: MalcolmAL on May 01, 2015, 01:48:52 PM
Quote from: steve836 on May 01, 2015, 01:31:09 PM
My mum had a wash board,
Which made you a fan of Lonnie Donegan as well ? :)
Yes "Rock Island Line" was one of my favourites.
Quote from: MalcolmAL on May 01, 2015, 01:48:52 PM
Quote from: steve836 on May 01, 2015, 01:31:09 PM
My mum had a wash board,
Which made you a fan of Lonnie Donegan as well ? :)
Joe Brown once said to me, "We should all be Lonnie Donegan fans mate! If it wasn't for 'im, we'd all be sittin' around strumming accordions."
Regards, Allan.....
I have no issues with regional accents/dialects at all. I may not understand and seek clarification, but it's entirely different to my mind from plain poor English as wot should be spoke by those wot have been taught it proper (like,you know etc)
I live in a bungalow - does this mean I live in a colony?
It is Leyland, dontcha know :sorrysign:
Quote from: steve836 on May 01, 2015, 01:53:29 PM
Quote from: MalcolmAL on May 01, 2015, 01:48:52 PM
Quote from: steve836 on May 01, 2015, 01:31:09 PM
My mum had a wash board,
Which made you a fan of Lonnie Donegan as well ? :)
Yes "Rock Island Line" was one of my favourites.
Ah yes :) excellent
Cant decide on my fav., excepting the railway themed ones then maybe Tom Dooley ? Or Cumberland Gap for causing me to ponder over Ord.Survey maps wondering why he thought it was near Middlesborough ! ( I was young and not worldly !! )
Oh, or else the one about wait till you see the whites of their eyes, which one was that, the
revolution one sorry - the war of independence one ? [EDIT ohh what a wonderful thing google is, I was wrong in so many ways ! Found it "Battle of New Orleans", not a lot to do with the independence stuff except incorporated some leftovers and then sorted out during that Napoleonic m'larky]
But I do know my least fav = chewing gum on the bedpost,
and second least = dustman
:( went downhill in my estimation after those :(
two of the most stupidest ever (songs ? )
It's interesting how language 'travels' and evolves. Because of my family's long involvement in India and the BIA, I grew up being very familiar with such terms as Cha and Cha Whallah's as well as Dhobi (pronounced either 'Dough-bee' or 'Dobbie', depending where you are from) (and the 'Itch!!), to the extent that I still use 'Cha' and 'Chit' in my daily speech (to my children's absolute disbelief!!). As a result of such exposure (for example), 'Tea' has always been the main evening meal - to the consternation of my tutor when I was doing my TESOL teacher training (she'd never heard of the usage before), while Punkahs and Punkah wallahs (although the former is now 'mechanical', and the wallah has been pensioned-off) are terms which are still understood by many, although such people (myself included) are increasingly amongst the 'older' generation who were 'Empire' kids... . Interestingly, one phrase which is still heard (albeit increasingly rarely) is 'Luv (Looov)' as in 'There you go Luv', usually from a 'lady of a certain age' behind a shop counter, while even in New Zealand (supposedly a place where 'Standard Received British (old BBC-type) English has held sway for many years there are actually 'regional' language differences. These show themselves in a variety of ways, and are a reflection of the way that the then-colony was settled. Christchurch(in the South island) was settled by essentially the 'Better People' from England,a fact reflected by a 'Home Counties' accenting of the standard speech. Dunedin (along with the lower part of the same island) is 'Scottish' to the core and the 'burr' and Rolling 'Rrrrr' is quite pronounced. The country's West Coast which always refers to the western area of the (of the South island) retains some older phraseology (toodle-ooh' for goodbye, being one example).
These are of course 'dying' relics of an age now long gone and an Empire that only a few of us now recall. They are of course being replaced by 'American' (via TV, Cinema, CD's and video's) and even by local variations that the 'yoof' are creating for their own benefit (and to confuse their parents - just as we did...) it has, of course, always been the way....
Quote from: Komata on May 02, 2015, 01:37:01 AM'Dobbie', depending where you are from
Yes, got some of those in my ancestry!
>It's interesting how language 'travels' and evolves.
Yes !
>BIA
Wot ?
> such terms as Cha
Cha was a common expression in the NW of England ( dunno elsewhere) in the 40s - 60s as in "time for a cupa'cha" ie. time for a sit down, rest and a natter.
> 'Tea' has always been the main evening meal
Yes, till I left the NW o'England I knew no other, and it was followed, not a lot later, by Supper, itself a not an inconsiderable meal !
>my TESOL
Wot ?
>'lady of a certain age' behind a shop counter
Now we are back to the Glaswegian "Hen" :)
>old BBC-type
That's me and Malc ;)
>being replaced by 'American'
but dont knock it ! Much more gentle (well sometimes)
than the methods of ye oldee empiree ! :)
Ummm, perhaps best not to go there ? !!!
MalcomAL
Sorry, forgot; not everyone would be familiar with 'colloquialisms': BIA: British Indian Army. (ie, that 'division of the British 'standing' Army actually located in 'pre-partition' India; essentially there 'In support of the Civilian Power'. ('nuff said).
Supper: The last 'meal' of the day, and usually consisting of 'Tea (Cha) and Biscuits' / 'Chocolate and Biscuits' (aka 'Choc' and Bikkies' if you will). HOWEVER, in some families 'Supper' is actually the 'Main' meal (aka 'Tea'), so there is definitely 'room for confusion', especially when there is also 'Afternoon Tea' (a light snack usually taken at around 1500) 'Dinner' (aka 'Tea'), to say nothing of 'Tiffin' (which definitely dates and places me, I suspect).
Aint 'English' grand..?
TESOL: Apologies again: Teaching English to Speakers Of English as a second Language. AKA 'Emergency English' and essentially a fancy name for those who get to teach non-English speakers how to converse in a way that the locals may understand (and no, the qualification doesn't include instructions about how to teach that skill to Brummies, Scouses, Cockneys' Scots, Welsh or Irish - in case you were wondering).
Looove / Hen: a Scots step great grandmother acquainted me with the 'finer points' of Hen' (although her accent was very, very broad).
'This is the beebeebseeb'; with apologies to a certain Greenslade W and some of his 'associates'...
'American': Now THAT is a whole field of study in itself, and takes the study of 'regional dialects' to a whole new level. Definitely 'Thesis' material, methinks....
And as for the 'Empire? Another time, another place. with the 'Rose-tinted glasses' making things so very much better than they may have been in reality.
Twas all rather a long time ago. Trusting though that the explanations make sense? Thanks.
I remember when I was a kid some of our toys were "Empire Made", i.e. made in Hong Kong.
I suppose this was because "Empire Made" had conotations of quality that "Made in Hong Kong" did not.
Best regards,
Joe
Joe
You too sir? Yes. 'Empire Made' was definitely 'superior' to 'Made in Hong Kong' and certainly made us feel as if we all 'belonged' to 'one big BRITISH happy family' and that Mummy (aka 'Mother England' for those who may not know what i am referring to) would ALWAYS look after us...
As we know, it didn't quite work out that way (but it was great while we believed it).
Quote from: Komata on May 02, 2015, 04:07:56 AM
Sorry, forgot; not everyone would be familiar with 'colloquialisms': BIA: British Indian Army.
Ah yes ! I am familiar with some, such as BEF, but BIA caught me out :)
Quote
'In support of the Civilian Power'. ('nuff said).
!! Indeed enuf :) else we could go on for days if not years with that one !!
Thank you for the comprehensive and most interesting reply, with you all along the way { except for Tiffin, had to google that one :) }
Ah yes, the genteel Afternoon Tea was quite light, often involving cucumber sandwiches with their crusts removed and lace and bead covers over the milk jug.
Quote'This is the beebeebseeb';
We used to refer to our dearly beloved employer as " The British Broadcorping Castration ". The capitalisation is required to give it solemnity.
One unfortunate continuity announcer in Manchester managed (with a little help from too much lunchtime beverage) to go on air with it, ooops !
QuoteAnd as for the 'Empire? Another time, another place. with the 'Rose-tinted glasses' making things so very much better than they may have been in reality.
Yet, looking round at the state of the
world ex-empire today, one wonders what might have been ? Best not go there either , , ,
I work at a school where we have TEFAL teachers (Teaching English as a Foreign Language) . I still refer to them as the "non-stick" teachers.
I had forgotten to some extent that chit (or chitty) derives from India I still use it along with billy do ( ex French - billet doux or literally soft ticket).
Interesting too the use of hen north of the border; daan sarf "ducks" was used to address a member of the opposite sex and in the midlands one says "duck" (as in "eyup me duck [pronounced dook]) regardless of the sex of the person being addressed.
In Norfolk the normal mode of address is "How you goin' on bor", bor (being a contraction of neighbor)is used regardless of sex and is quite different to boy which can also be used when addressing a male.
I remember too the amusement caused in the midlands when Bernard Matthews described his turkeys as "bootiful"; having been raised in Norfolk it seemed perfectly normal to me.
Don't forget the gooly chit.....
Quote from: Komata on May 02, 2015, 09:30:49 AM
'Empire Made' was definitely 'superior' to 'Made in Hong Kong' and certainly made us feel as if we all 'belonged' to 'one big BRITISH happy family' and that Mummy (aka 'Mother England' for those who may not know what i am referring to) would ALWAYS look after us...
As we know, it didn't quite work out that way (but it was great while we believed it).
Although the "happy family" is long dead politically I feel that it still exists culturally. I say this because I have friends in India and in South Africa, and we have common cultural references that go back to the "bad old days" but which allow us to be on the "same wavelength" today.
In fact the family is growing as countries such as Rwanda, that had no links to Britain, have joined the Commonwealth.
Must be cricket or Marmite that attracts them ?
Best regards,
Joe
Quote from: MalcolmAL on May 01, 2015, 10:28:01 AM
Quote from: dannyboy on May 01, 2015, 09:49:31 AM
And then there is regional english !
When my daughter started keeping sheep she saw me pointing at each in turn saying " Yan, tahn, thether, mether , , ", she thought I was naming them :) [ex-pat Cumberland]
I wonder what language root that was from, Norse ? maybe. Some googling is called for I think.
Yan tahn thether is apparently an odd remnant of cumbrian so "celtic" (although the low numbers are from the same roots for most proto indo european languages)
Quote from: joe cassidy on May 02, 2015, 12:58:08 PM
Must be cricket or Marmite that attracts them ?
We have to keep finding new countries to play cricket with because after a while they always get better than us and we need someone else to beat.
Alan
Quote from: EtchedPixels on May 03, 2015, 10:53:53 PM
Quote from: MalcolmAL on May 01, 2015, 10:28:01 AM
Quote from: dannyboy on May 01, 2015, 09:49:31 AM
And then there is regional english !
When my daughter started keeping sheep she saw me pointing at each in turn saying " Yan, tahn, thether, mether , , ", she thought I was naming them :) [ex-pat Cumberland]
I wonder what language root that was from, Norse ? maybe. Some googling is called for I think.
Yan tahn thether is apparently an odd remnant of cumbrian so "celtic" (although the low numbers are from the same roots for most proto indo european languages)
Yes, thanks for that,
very odd, after I posted I found this wiki page,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yan_tan_tethera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yan_tan_tethera)
facinating ( caveat - I dunno the truth of any of it nor where they get it all from yet,,, )
variations on a theme from _across_ the UK !
All the there quoted for the Cumberland and Westmorland varieties have more more syllables than I remember (eg tethera / terddera, instead of my tether etc. ) so where I got mine from is a bit of a puzzle.
The closest I see is Swaledale, but although I have a greatgranmother 'Swales' I never spent any time in that region, well odd ! :)
So, back to bridies, for years I thought them was either some stange perversion of Finnan Haddies (they being of northeast Scotland origin as well) or a strange ritual involving a silke of sule skerrie ! !!
It was a relief to find that it was an evolution of a haggis !
Has anyone else noticed the number of TV news correspondents who have been/are pronouncing 'General Election' as if the word 'Election' begins with an 'A'? :veryangry:
Quote from: newportnobby on May 07, 2015, 12:57:38 PM
Has anyone else noticed the number of TV news correspondents who have been/are pronouncing 'General Election' as if the word 'Election' begins with an 'A'? :veryangry:
Wondered what was coming there Mick. :D