Coach formation

[Thebigshot]

Hi Guys

Sorry if this is been put on before but I found an interesting topic on Facebook and could not fined anything about it on here.

So here gose the question was whare would a brake coach be in a train the photo showed a merchant navie with a brake end and one other coach in tow yes this photo was a Hornby train set but a very interesting question though as is there a correct formation for a passenger train or formation of coaching stock I'd be interested in hereing what you think of this question

Thanks
Alan

[Dorsetmike]

Normal practice on the Southern was for coaches to be kept in fixed sets of anything from 2 to 9 coaches with a brake at each end, many of the SR or BR(S) trains were split along their route for London to the South  and Southwest, say 3 coaches for Plymouth, 3 for Padstow, 2 for Bude & 3 for ilfracombe, or 5 for Bournemouth West, 2 for Swanage & 4 for Weymouth So there would often be more third brakes or compo brakes than non brake coaches. For destinations like Brighton or Worthing being shorter runs then longer sets of 7, 8 or 9 coaches as they would be less likely to divide en route.

On other lines dividing trains was less common and they did not tend to keep fixed rakes however it was normal to have a brake at the tail end, and possibly elsewhere in the train. A lot would depend on the type of service, commuters don't carry much luggage, holiday makers do, so a "holiday" train  would usually have more luggage space normally in extra brake/guard vans which could be at front, or in the middle.

Other considerations for locating a guards compartment could depend on possible difficulties of seeing both ends of a train at a curved platform. (checking if all doors shut etc)

[Karhedron]

Assuming this is steam-era, any train would need some sort of brake vehicle to carry the guard and any luggage. Beyond that, there are few hard and fast rules. Normally there would be some first class accommodation (normally at the Up end of the train) but some rural services did not have this.

As DorsetMike has already said, the SR normally ran semi-permanent sets with a brake-end coach at each end of the set. The GWR also had some sets such as the branchline B-set (a pair of brake composites). The GWR also had a variety of other sets varying from 3-5 coaches.

Here is a post I did a while back of some sample GWR/WR formations. Others may be able to chip in if your interests lie in other regions.

I am fortunate enough to have a Bristol carriage working program from 1951 from which I have culled several sample formations. Stock would likely have been a mishmash of different Collett designs at this date with a handful of newer Hawksworth and older toplight stock mixed in. Photos from the time show that GWR/WR rakes were rarely uniform except for a handful of toplink expresses or semi-permenent suburban rakes.

These formations date from 1951 but I suspect they originated with the GWR after WW2. Also I suspect many of them did not alter significantly before dieselisation based on photos. All that changed was the stock gradually got newer. The CWP runs to about 60 pages and I have not attempted to replicate it all here. Rather I have picked out some sample formations that are representative of crack expresses, inter-regional-trains, cross-country trains and local workings.

There are a couple of notes on guards' compartments. The GWR and early WR used the terminology "Brake" and "Van" to distinguish between vehicles that just had room for the Guard and those which also included a substantial space for luggage. Thus a Van Third would have more luggage space and less seating than a Brake Third. A modelling example from Hornby Hawkwsorth coaches would be that their Brake Composite is accurately named but that their Brake Third would originally have been termed a Van Third as it features a more substantial Guard's compartment. In order to keep things simple, I have reffered to everything as "brakes" as this is how most manufacturers refer to their products.

The CWP states that where possible, the Guard's compartment shall be marshalled on the outer edge of the formation. I.e. next to the loco if leading and at the end of the train if trailing.

Another interesting feature is the number or trains made of different portions for different destinations. We all know of famous splitting trains such as the Atlantic coast express but examing this CWP shows just how widespread the practice was. Where a train includes separate portions, I have put them on separate lines together with an indication of the destination for that portion. Even trains that did not split passenger accomodation might well include the odd siphon or full-brake being sent on to far flung destinations. This can be handy for space-starved modllers who still want a mainline feel as they can model just a portion of a larger train.

The single commonest formation is the 5 coach corridor set BTK TK CK TK BTK. This crops up on dozens of cross-country workings, often with strengthening vehicles or parcels stock attached. This is closely followed by a smaller cross country 3-car set BCK TK BTK. As can be seen, these sort of workings feature far less first class accomodation than express sets.

Suburban non-corridor sets.
B-set: BC - BC
M-set: BT - T - C - BT
K-set: BT - T - C - C - T - BT
W-set: BC - T - T - T - T - BT

Paddington - Swansea
BTK TK CK CK TK Siphon-G Diner FK CK BTK

Paddington - Bristol
BTK TK CK FK Composite Buffet CK TK BTK

Paddington - Cheltenham
BTK TK CK Composite Diner TK TK BTK

Paddington to Plymouth
BCK Diner (detached at Exeter)
BTK TK CK CK TK (core train)
TK TK (attached at Bristol)
BG (Bristol - Exeter only)

Paddington - Penzance
BTK TK CK Composite Diner TK BTK
BTK TK CK BTK (Kingswear portion)

Paddington - Carmarthen
BCK TK TK TK (Detached at Swansea)
BTK CK CK TK TK BTK

Weymouth to Paddington
PO stowage van (attached at Westbury)
BTK TK FK BTK
TK TK BCK TK (attached at Westbury)

Liverpool - Plymouth
BTK CK TK (attached at Crewe for Kingswear)
BTK CK TK (attached at Crewe)
BTK CK TK BTK (LMR stock)

Penzance - Liverpool
PO Sorting carriage (detached at Bristol)
TK CK BTK (attached at Plymouth)
TK CK BTK
BG (LMS stock)
BG Siphon-G
BG (Detached at Crewe for Glasgow)
BG (Detached at Bristol for Leeds)
BG (Detached at Bristol for Sheffield)

Bristol - Bedminster - Portsmouth circuar working
BTK TK CK TK BTK
Siphon G (Bristol to Portsmouth)
TK TK (Salisbury to Bristol)
Siphon G (Portsmouth to Bristol)
Gas tank (Weymouth to Bristol)

Cardiff - Bristol - Malago Vale circular working
TK BCK

Swindon - Hereford
BCK TK BTK

Cheltenham - Swindon
BTK TK CK BTK