Dapol have announced their catalogue will be out at Ally Pally, what no shows can we expect this time, my hoped for "Schools" seems to have disappeared into the ether already! Apparently the latest batch of Terriers are due in shortly, 2659 for me, was named "Cheam" my old home town.
According to this month's Railway Modeller........
"The class 33 is progressing well. However, some minor body details are being corrected prior to a final EP being produced. Decorated samples of the Maunsell coaches were due to arrive towards the end of February ( ???). CAD drawings are currently being checked for the Maunsell 'Schools' 4-4-0 and class 50 models, whilst tooling drawings are now under way for the GWR 'Grange' 4-6-0, which will share parts from the '2884' 2-8-0 and 'Manor' 4-6-0 models"
well the grange you could say release for 2017 if your lucky, schools probably next year, coaches late this year, 142...cancelled probably!
Why don't both dapol and bachfar end this nonsense once and for all and just put in the catalogues what is really available in the time period of the catalogue...what is the point of such horrendous lead times for future products..its really poor...I have only recently returned to modelling in the last year and the constant delays and lack of stock is frustrating...both companies products are much improved from years gone by but I am amazed they can treat their customers so poorly...I think they rely on our complacency and our lack of willingness to complain...imagine going into Argos and selecting items only to be told at the till that they will be in stock in maybe 1,2,3 years time but please just leave a preorder !....PS maybe this should be in the angry thread !!!!
Because while the products are much improved over yesteryear, one of the costs has been the offshoring of production. Manufacturers are somewhat at the whim of far-eastern factories. This is one of the reasons (although only one) behind the long lead times. As well as waiting for production slots, it takes time for CADs and EPs to go back and forth along with the inevitable engrish transration ploblems.
I think when the last catalogue came out Dapol did intend to get most of it done. Then the design engineer Dave Johns left and a lot slipped as new staff came in and had to get up to speed. China sounds hard to deal with at times but is still the best and cheapest.
I think the production in China excuse does not stand up...thousands of products are designed in Europe or the USA for example and production done in China..with current technology then sending cad or engineering files is easy...at the end of the day these companies need to get a firmer grip of their own design processes and get some steam up....sorry I should have said traction as I am a diesel modeller!
Design and production all in China, you compete for all resources with other bigger players. If a USA company order 2000 of a new product and the UK 500 who are you going to priorities?
Quote from: NtasticShop on March 20, 2014, 12:47:29 PM
Design and production all in China, you compete for all resources with other bigger players. If a USA company order 2000 of a new product and the UK 500 who are you going to priorities?
Depends on your business relationship with your supplier and to an extent on what you pay of course.
And I'll point out that about the time he left Dave said there were no capacity issues.
Alan
At the end of the day it is for both dapol and bachfar to manage their supply and development chains...I think that as there is very little competition certainly for British n gauge from other manufacturers the bar is set very low. I don't know if USA companies are any better as I don't model non UK stuff??
Just to crudely illustrate the point if you look at the bachfar site and say the n gauge diesel section....it contains 108 products...of which 62 are not in stock...some have future est dates and some are on order with no date and many show out of stock...now I know this does not reflect the stocks at retailers but it does show the large gap in the actual physically available product compared to fresh air !
Quote from: NtasticShop on March 20, 2014, 12:47:29 PM
Design and production all in China, you compete for all resources with other bigger players. If a USA company order 2000 of a new product and the UK 500 who are you going to priorities?
Exactly ... I'm in the process of designing / prototyping an add-on to a controller (sorry - not applicable to us here :(), and am looking at using China for the creation of the PCBs (and possibly populating them too). Prices are very good - however, for the small quantities I'm looking at, my work will be fitted in as & when ... I do have a window, but am expecting things to be at the end of that window, not the start !
Would it be quicker here ? Quite probably - but the cost would increase so much it's not feasible to make them ...
Mike
Quote from: MikeDunn on March 20, 2014, 02:26:02 PM
Would it be quicker here ? Quite probably - but the cost would increase so much it's not feasible to make them ...
The Raspberry PI production was succesfully brought back to the UK. Not suggesting its remotely similar to low volume or specialist stuff but it proves we can make things in the UK (Well in Wales at least dunno about England :P )
Er, not really ... there are, I understand, production facilities all across the world.
And my little project is only for 2 x 50 PCBs, not the tens of thousands the RasPi is ! ::) Definitely not the same scale !
They loose credibility when they fail to deliver, which is a shame since a lot of what was produced over the last few years wasn't half bad. Some issues yes but hey, that seems to be true of every manufacturer in every gauge if you read the model press.
Just would like them to produce what they advertise. There are no doubt a whole host of business issues behind it all, cash flow etc will aways dictate first and foremost.
It is not only Dapol who have long gestation times. The recent Farish Ivatt 2MT was about 5 years in development as I recall. They needed to develop the coreless motor to actually be able to power something that small.
Dapol and Farish are both "staking claims" to certain items to deter the other from attempting them. It is frustating for those of us waiting for the models (I was waiting for my 2MT for most of that time) but it is the nature of the market.
Quote from: sparky on March 20, 2014, 12:30:54 PM
I think the production in China excuse does not stand up...thousands of products are designed in Europe or the USA for example and production done in China..with current technology then sending cad or engineering files is easy...at the end of the day these companies need to get a firmer grip of their own design processes and get some steam up....sorry I should have said traction as I am a diesel modeller!
I think that you are underestimating the problems in out-sourcing your manufacture to a company half-way around the world who know nothing about the prototype you are trying to model and speak a different language. It is certainly not just a case of sending over the CAD files and waiting for a finished model to pop out at the end.
Lindsay O'Reilly of Ixion recently posted about his experiences on the N Gauge yahoo list. I have reproduced his post here with his kind permission as I think that it illustrates exactly the sort of problems Dapol are having. Ixion know the N gauge market well enough and sadly pulled out of it after getting their fingers burned with the Manor.
Quote
Dear modelling friends,
Model railway manufacturing in China is hardly "an experiment". It's the only place - at this moment in history - where you will get the state of the art models you want at the price you are prepared to pay. Manufacturing could move back to the UK, or my home country Australia, pretty easily, but at a minimum price increase of double what you pay now. We could do it, but we'd all be broke and out of business quicker than you can say "They want HOW much for that?".
As an aside, for those who think that communicating prototype railway information to a non-railway-modelling non-English speaking Chinese CAD draughtsman is as easy as buying a pie at your corner shop, well, not quite...
I have a fund of stories from the Ixion adventure, but I'll share just one. On our first and only N gauge loco, the Manor, there is an air tank under the footplate on one side of the real loco. It was left off the first CADs, so we insisted it be added. It was... On both sides. We explained that it should be on only one side. It disappeared from both sides. We said it goes on one side only. It reappeared on both. In desperation to meet our published release date, we went with the drawing that had the tank on both sides. And do you know what? No-one has ever noticed; or if they did, they were kind enough to keep it to themselves, bless them. I bet Dapol and Farish have 20 or 30 times more moments like that each year that you don't hear about...
For us, after some issues with the wiring of our 7mm Hudswell Clarke, the only way we felt we could guarantee that our locos would be right was if our technical director Phil Badger went to the factory in China during the production run of our O gauge Fowler to watch every stage of the manufacture and assembly. For a little company of just three blokes, that's a serious expense.
He did, and do you know what? We have not had a single return in the 500 sold so far. But if we were producing half a dozen, or a dozen, or more models a year? I doubt it could be done either financially or humanly. So I say, rejoice that so many things are right on those models, and allow that ordinary fallible human beings are creating them. Compare them to the old days - the cheese cutter wheels, the lumpy Farish 'Holden tank'... I for one am amazed by the quality and range now available. If they're not perfect, well, neither am I.
And, as we always say to people, if you are so absolutely sure you can do it better, do what we did. Find some likeminded friends, go and see your bank manager about a crazy loan, together stump up the US$150,000 to get your loco made, choose a factory and become a manufacturer. We did, and it's heaps of fun. And, you get free locos, too. Bargain!!
Cheers,
Lindsay O'Reilly
Ixion Models,
Newcastle NSW.
What a great and illuminating note from Lindsay - thanks for posting it :thumbsup:
Extremely interesting. I like Mr. O'Reilly's last paragraph - tackles the naysayers in one swift stroke.
Totally agree. Big respect to Dave Jones for taking on such a project - I couldn't be that brave!
The ixion post whilst it shows it can be difficult to deal in different countries with potentially different languages does not totally excuse the ridiculous lead times...it needs an investment with good locals on the ground to join the gaps in knowledge together..it is still ultimately about recruiting and managing the right people...I worked for a company supplying parts to ford in Russia with design done in the UK...key to success was the local Russian employees we had to put in place who understood all the local logistics etc.. So I still feel we are making excuses for what is a badly managed development process...the delays and lack of product on time speak for themselves. PS the products are as everyone has stated are now very good so I am not saying everything is wrong but both bachfar and dapol must continue to improve the time from design concept to market.
Having someone local means paying for someone local. It's perhaps easy for Bachmann (who are Chinese with an outsourced UK office) but for any small company its a big extra expense and would end up reflected in the prices.
Alan
Just remember that the first Manner from Ixion turned up 8% too big as changes were made after sign off design. Finding errors and then scheduling time to get them changed as time beyond anyones control if designer is off or busy on other projects. Chinese new year can cause issues, although these should be planed in but if the expected issues arise just before, it can take a couple of weeks to catch up. I think aot of the delays are also down to the recission in that companies have slowed down development of new products awaiting an improvement. Unfortunately none have had the sense to come out and say this, if they had it may have saved them some complaints.
Well Hitachi are moving manufacturing to the UK... only problem is, their trains may be a tad too large for most people's layouts... ;)
Quote from: Only Me on March 21, 2014, 05:59:09 PM
You also need to bear in mind that these Chinese factories have production slots booked by other companies many months if not years in advance so a company making for instance the PCB's for 500 Dapol locos is not going to put that job in front of Apples order for say 5,000,000 pcbs. Hence production setbacks because the chinese companies push these little jobs back to fit in more lucrative assignments.... Our little model world is small fry compared to a lot of the manufacturing slots available...
The guys who do small runs are set up to do small runs. That's their business. Big runs of stuff are much more highly mechanised with a big set up budget.
Capacity is not a huge issue. The giant mess a few years ago is over.
I would be more worried about demand than supply. There is an awful lot of stuff stock in retailers not being bought and despite all the wittering in westminster bills are up wages relatively down, pensioners are getting clobbered and we all hopefully pay the gas bill over new trains...
Alan
Given the choice between the gas and electricity bill I would definitely pay the electricity as my power cab is no good on gas !....
Th question about why catalogues turn out to be fantasy is really very simple. If they are annual rather than quarterly then they cannot be updated with realistic possibilities. Secondly catalogues are the sole preserve of Marketing Departments - not even the Sales Department are allowed to participate, and certainly Engineering and Logistics both of whom have to make it happen are not allowed to participate in the catalogue. Marketing are only interested in new products for all kinds of reasons that are good for the company.
So annual catalogues will always have models that don't become a reality in that catalogues year. New Product development is miles more complicated than anyone who has not actually been involved directly in it (I was for 8 years) will know and thus theorising about what is going wrong in a company that we don't work for is also fantasy. But interesting to read.
I was a product development manager in the steel industry for many years so I know the realities of bringing product to market...I won't name the company but we were very slow in developing new advanced products and were rarely first to market.. The issue was management mindset to research... We were going down the road to oblivion by producing standard grades that the Chinese could produce at lower cost...the new owners of our business have now heavily invested in R and D and we involve the sales and marketing teams very early now in new concepts...the result is a pipeline of new products...so it can be done if the mindset is changed !
Having had a look at the catalogue that appeared today (I'm apparently on the Dapol dealer database as I bought loads of bogies off them for kits) I'm struck by how little "completely new" stuff there is.
There is at least one kettle shaped surprise, ane a rather welcome re-introduction/rework or two, and some interesting accessory updates but it's mostly "as before", which is probably a good thing.
Nice to see another small tank loco, especially being done in pre-group livery too. I can see another rake of new coach products appearing shortly 8)
Alan
Come on, don't tease us. Spill the beans! :pleasesign:
Just had a good look through the copy that arrived at work this morning. Nice bit of reading for my last day here :) Here is a quick summary for you all :)
New Locos announced:
LNER J72 - 5 Versions covering NER through to BR Liveries
GWR Grange - 6 Versions covering GWR through to BR Liveries
Class 22 - 4 versions, Disc Headcode
Class 68
Loco Re-runs:
GWR Pannier Tank - 4 more versions
GWR 2884 Class - 4 more versions
Britannia - 5 more versions, plus a re-run of both Cromwell and Britannia
LNER A4 - 4 more versions
LNER B17 - 3 more versions
SR Q1 - 2 more versions
BR 9F - 5 more versions (Inc Evening star re-run)
GWR Manor - 4 more versions (Upgraded to be DCC Ready)
GWR 45XX - 4 more versions
LMS Ivatt 2-6-2T - 4 more versions
LSWR M7 - 4 more versions
Class 22 - 3 more versions
Class 52 - 8 more versions!
Class 56 - 5 more versions
Class 35 Hymek - 4 more powered versions, 2 Dummy
Class 66 - 4 more versions
Class 67 - Arriva Bookset
HST - 4 more versions
Class 122 - 2 more versions
Class 153 - 2 more versions
Class 156 - 2 more versions
Coaching stock:
Full Details for Maunsell Coaches announced
Re-run of Chocolate/Cream Colletts
Re-run of Carmine/Cream Gresleys
And that's a very quick summary. I'm sure a full list inc product codes/running numbers/liveries etc will be posted somewhere soon, but it would have taken me an age to type out! :P
Ollie
:NGaugersRule:
Nothing in there about the 50, 59 and pacer Ollie??
Cheers
Mark
Well that is quite a list! Hopefully they will paint the wheels on the next batch of Britannia's. Still no Gresley coaches in maroon.
Paddy
Quote from: Paddy on March 22, 2014, 02:15:25 PM
Well that is quite a list! Hopefully they will paint the wheels on the next batch of Britannia's. Still no Gresley coaches in maroon.
Paddy
Blackened wheels on the new Brits apparently.
I've got some maroon Gresleys I was about to saw up for sleepers. Drop me a note if you want to swap or similar
Unfortunately, no news about the Class V Schools. :'(
But the release of Maunsell Coaches is good news ! :drool:
Quote from: scruff on March 22, 2014, 01:38:07 PM
Nothing in there about the 50, 59 and pacer Ollie??
Cheers
Mark
Quote from: ohlavache on March 22, 2014, 02:38:03 PM
Unfortunately, no news about the Class V Schools. :'(
But the release of Maunsell Coaches is good news ! :drool:
My post only listed what was 'new'. The Schools, 50, 59, 33, 142 etc are all still in the Catalogue with the latest update on them. (AKA CAD drawings)
Ollie
:NGaugersRule:
Any idea as to which A4's / B17's they are going to be doing?
Might have to get handy renumbering / naming locomotives if not!
Cheers.
Quote from: Ollie3440 on March 22, 2014, 02:55:16 PM
Quote from: scruff on March 22, 2014, 01:38:07 PM
Nothing in there about the 50, 59 and pacer Ollie??
Cheers
Mark
Quote from: ohlavache on March 22, 2014, 02:38:03 PM
Unfortunately, no news about the Class V Schools. :'(
But the release of Maunsell Coaches is good news ! :drool:
My post only listed what was 'new'. The Schools, 50, 59, 33, 142 etc are all still in the Catalogue with the latest update on them. (AKA CAD drawings)
Ollie
:NGaugersRule:
Thanks Ollie,
I was wondering about the 59 because it was missing from the article in Modelrail when they did a roundup of Dapol's plans. Glad to hear it is still hanging in there!
Cheers
Mark
What are the new versions of the 56?
Tim
Which HST versions are coming? Are they re-runs or brand new liveries?
What new names and numbers for the B17?
I'd buy any of them if they chose Norwich City, Liverpool or Leeds United for release.
Similarly, I'd buy a 153 if it was in one of Wessex Trains' all over advertising liveries, or the Arriva Trains Northern livery (which was different from the ATW version already released)
B17's
Liverpool wartime black
Liverpool BR early crest
Royal Sovereign LNER apple green.
153
Northern Trans Pennine
Central Trains
London Midland
HST
re-runs of BR 3 liveries
First great Western
Class 56
not sure which are new to be honest. 2D-004-000 to 004 With 005-009 Doncaster built
Had a chat with Joel at Ally Pally today - it is hoped that most of the outstanding catalogue items will appear this year, with the exception of the Pacer, which was bottom of the development pile and work has only just restarted on. Probably early-mid 2015 for the 142, folks.
Nothing really new on display except weathered Westerns (lovely) and Powerhaul Freightliner 66504.
Decisions ... decisions ... decisions ...
I could fancy either version of B17 "Liverpool" :claphappy: as my family lived there, but will have to plump for one of them :(
Maybe the wartime version, my mum might have seen it running through Tivetshall, former junction for the Waveney Valley line when she was a kid, or, on the other hand the early crest version would have run alongside the Britannias :thumbsup: which I already own.
I'll need to find out exactly what Dapol means by Northern Trans Pennine ...
Is that a hint that the 45xx and the M7 are going to be with decent chassis?
I hope so, would love them but got rid of the 5 45xx and the M7 I had cos they were rubbish!!
Best wishes and hopeful
Simon
I spoke to Dapol on their stand today, and asked if they'd like to do an Electrostar or three. They did not seem overly enthusiastic about that, in spite of the obvious advantages.
So I asked them about a class 116. "It's all very well doing single-car high-density suburban units; what about a three-car unit?" I asked. They thought for a while, then said that that sounded like a good idea, and they would go away and think about it. "Watch this space," they said.
A scan of the N section of the new catalogue can be found here
http://www.ness-st.co.uk/N-gauge-catalogues.html (http://www.ness-st.co.uk/N-gauge-catalogues.html)
Please note it is reproduced by permission of Joel Bright of Dapol.
Thanks for providing a link to the catalogue, it's answered some of my queries:
Firstly, the 153 described as Northern Trans Pennine is painted in the ex-FNW blue and gold scheme with Northern logos.
Secondly, the 2014/15 spec 9Fs will have a tungsten chassis with painted metal wheels after all :claphappy: now I feel happier about the prospect of owning one of my favourite steam locos :thumbsup:
Thirdly, the Maunsell carriages represent the early 1926-28 59' Restriction 4 (9ft wide) batches built with low side-corridor windows, the last being withdrawn in 1961. None of the passenger-carrying versions as modelled by Dapol currently survive in preservation.
The Van Cs were built 1936-40 and lasted well into the 70s and early 80s, several Van Cs (BR BY) survive on several heritage sites.
Running numbers of examples modelled:
BTK 4048-4051, also BSK (for Newhaven boat trains) 4481-2;
TK 769-778, 783-832, 2349-2355, also SK (for Newhaven boat trains) 4483-6;
CK 5138-50;
FK 7208-27, 7665-74
Van C 400-49, 651-800
Source: Maunsell's SR steam passenger stock 1923-1939 by David Gould (Oakwood Press, 1978)
Hmmm class 142's listed STILL and more importantly for me class 59 listed. Worth a pre-order or should I wait to 2016?
Skyline2uk
Interested to read the selection of weathered locos available. If these are to the same standard as the class 22 and previous 9F then I will be a very happy camper. :thumbsup:
Am still a little confused as to whether the older models will have new chassis, hope so. The mention of Tungsten chassis, is that a development ordid the original ones have them as well, anybody know?
Also still no mention of the sorely missing Mk3 TGS, for crying out loud Dapol listen to your customers!!
Best wishes
Simon
Quote from: bridgiesimon on March 22, 2014, 09:00:15 PM
Am still a little confused as to whether the older models will have new chassis, hope so. The mention of Tungsten chassis, is that a development ordid the original ones have them as well, anybody know?
The originals did not have tungsten chassis. However nor did they have tenders (which the catalogue mentions :doh: ) so I suspect they may have cut and pasted a generic steam loco spec there. I have posted the same question on their facebook page but I suspect it will be next week before we get an answer.
Hi Simon
On the Mk3 coaches page at the top is states clearly that the TGS is in development.
cheers
Ben A.
Quote from: gc4946 on March 22, 2014, 08:30:50 PM
Thanks for providing a link to the catalogue, it's answered some of my queries:
Firstly, the 153 described as Northern Trans Pennine is painted in the ex-FNW blue and gold scheme with Northern logos.
Secondly, the 2014/15 spec 9Fs will have a tungsten chassis with painted metal wheels after all :claphappy: now I feel happier about the prospect of owning one of my favourite steam locos :thumbsup:
Thirdly, the Maunsell carriages represent the early 1926-28 59' Restriction 4 (9ft wide) batches built with low side-corridor windows, the last being withdrawn in 1961. None of the passenger-carrying versions as modelled by Dapol currently survive in preservation.
The Van Cs were built 1936-40 and lasted well into the 70s and early 80s, several Van Cs (BR BY) survive on several heritage sites.
Running numbers of examples modelled:
BTK 4048-4051, also BSK (for Newhaven boat trains) 4481-2;
TK 769-778, 783-832, 2349-2355, also SK (for Newhaven boat trains) 4483-6;
CK 5138-50;
FK 7208-27, 7665-74
Van C 400-49, 651-800
Source: Maunsell's SR steam passenger stock 1923-1939 by David Gould (Oakwood Press, 1978)
I always thought the Northern Trans Pennine livery was the pink carried by the class 158's when Arriva operated the Trans Pennine express service.
My worst fears I thought all the early information was showing Maunsell low-window 6 compartment brakes, not a good choice in my opinion. Still at least I know what to buy now either Farish Bullieds or nothing.
I have been told that manufacturers now announce a model and only start work when sufficient interest has been shown.
Dodger
Quote from: EtchedPixels on March 22, 2014, 02:33:27 PM
Quote from: Paddy on March 22, 2014, 02:15:25 PM
Well that is quite a list! Hopefully they will paint the wheels on the next batch of Britannia's. Still no Gresley coaches in maroon.
Paddy
Blackened wheels on the new Brits apparently.
I've got some maroon Gresleys I was about to saw up for sleepers. Drop me a note if you want to swap or similar
Thanks EtchedPixels but it looks like they may be releasing a new batch of maroon Gresley coaches so I will wait for those.
Many thanks
Paddy
Quote from: gc4946 on March 22, 2014, 08:30:50 PM
Thirdly, the Maunsell carriages represent the early 1926-28 59' Restriction 4 (9ft wide) batches built with low side-corridor windows, the last being withdrawn in 1961. None of the passenger-carrying versions as modelled by Dapol currently survive in preservation.
Thanks for this information. It is a shame they have not chosen to include a composite brake in the lineup as this would have enabled the BTK-BCK sets that were common in the west country behind an M7 or O2 to be modelled. Ah well, I shall have to settle for a 3-car set.
Happy teddy, see they are doing a re-run of the FGW HST so I can at last get a second set. :)
Quote from: Karhedron on March 23, 2014, 08:39:28 AM
Quote from: gc4946 on March 22, 2014, 08:30:50 PM
Thirdly, the Maunsell carriages represent the early 1926-28 59' Restriction 4 (9ft wide) batches built with low side-corridor windows, the last being withdrawn in 1961. None of the passenger-carrying versions as modelled by Dapol currently survive in preservation.
Thanks for this information. It is a shame they have not chosen to include a composite brake in the lineup as this would have enabled the BTK-BCK sets that were common in the west country behind an M7 or O2 to be modelled. Ah well, I shall have to settle for a 3-car set.
If Dapol had produced a four-compartment BTK, then it would have been possible to model the 1926-28 3-coach West of England sets formed as BTK (4 compt) + CK + BTK (4 compt) and still have "loose" TKs and FKs to augment the formation.
Following that option would have meant up to 14 3-car sets could have been prototypically assembled (sets 390-399, 445-448) some of them were used from the early 50s on the Somerset & Dorset and the last were withdrawn in 1961.
Only 1370 views in 3 days! Is no-one interested in buying loco any more?
They only thing thats peaked my interest with this list is the Rerun of Evening Star.
No mention of when the 33's or 50's are due, disappointing. I might raise some interest in the hydraulics depending what they get turned out like.
Over all it's a "meh" from me
I was at Ally Pally yesterday helping to run the big Austrian H0 layout Michaelerplatz.
I escaped to have a look round and wound up at the Dapol stand. All I bought was a catalogue, but managed to catch a few words with (I assume) Joel.
The J72 is likely to be a 2015 release, I guess that must be expected. I think it is a great choice - I for one have long bemoaned the lack of LNER tank locos and I know I am not alone.
Regarding the re-runs of old models, looking at the pricing (e.g. £65 for an Ivatt) I would be very surprised indeed if any of the three (M7, Ivat, 45xx) have newly tooled tungsten chassis and metal see through wheels etc at that price. I think the comment in the catalogue is a generic "lift and drop" from the other pages and as such possibly unintentionally misleadiing.
Similarly when I asked about improvements to the 9F all I was told about was the sprung front bogie, not a brand new all singing and dancing chassis great idea though that would be.
Does anyone have firm info from Dapol confirming new chassis? If so I will very happily stand corrected as well as seriously look at a new 9f!
Roy
Quote from: AndyGif on March 23, 2014, 09:39:00 AM
They only thing thats peaked my interest with this list is the Rerun of Evening Star.
No mention of 33's or 50's disappointing, might raise some interest in the hydraulics depending what they get turned out like.
over it's a "meh" from me
33s and 50s are in the catalogue as mentioned earlier in this thread. The front page states the desire to catch up this year and hope to release all models within the time frame of this catalogue. i know Joel and the others are honest guys and will try their best. Shame still no early livery on the 142's as I would like a choc and cream livery for Cornwall.
I just wish I had carried on developing my 142...........................................
Early 142 liveries go with different doors.
I don't see any big problems etching replacement doors or Maunsell sides. Simple case of a little modelling being needed.
Alan
If Dapol were to re-chassis the 9F, I would seriously consider retiring my Minitrix 9Fs. That model alone put me off Dapol for years. The biggest problem with it is the complete lack of weight from all of the plastic that went into it, and the cast weight mounted so high in the boiler. If it had the low down weight of a metal chassis in the first place, the derailing pony truck wouldn't have been nearly as much of an issue as it was. It wouldn't have stopped some of the disintegrating valve gear I experienced, but 3 of my 5 returns went back for complete lack of track holding. Decent chassis, dozen sales...simples.
The Ivatt is a different story, the chassis in that is generally good, it just wants a motor update and new wheels. And gearing down a bit...mine goes off like a rabbit chased by a greyhound and is hitting 100mph at 4.5 volts with enough oomph to throw it off a 2' radius curve at full chat.
The J72 I find a bit of a strange one, the Bachmann J72 was one of its classics and hasn't been in their range for a time, it was always a good steady seller right from its introduction with Mainline. I was fully expecting to see that split chassis model to appear retooled in this years Bachmann announcements and shrunk to N with Farish.
Quote from: Zunnan on March 24, 2014, 10:56:56 AM
If it had the low down weight of a metal chassis in the first place, the derailing pony truck wouldn't have been nearly as much of an issue as it was.
The weight in the main chassis would have no effect on the trackholding of the bogie as it's effectively a separate chassis, unless the weighting of the bogie was also increased. It's problem was the steamroller pizza cutter flanged wheels on the first batch models that caught on point blades etc. Dapol already had to retool the wheels on the 9F and the latest ones had a retooled tender drive mechanism with their standard 5 pole motor rather than the earlier 3 pole Tomix style ones.
Quote from: Zunnan on March 24, 2014, 10:56:56 AM
It wouldn't have stopped some of the disintegrating valve gear I experienced
This seems a very common problem - the central driver crank pins seem to be cast in a very weak material that easily snaps (leaving the remains of the peg stuck in the hole for good measure). Problem is exacerbated as you can't get spares of just this one component.
Cheers,
Alan
I mean that the additional weight and lower centre of gravity may have meant that the derailing pony truck could have been less likely to throw the locomotive on its side at the merest hint of a curve. Yes by design (flaw) it would have still derailed constantly, but it may well have resulted in less damage to those dumbo ear cab doors as the loco tipped over, a good chunk of additional weight low down in the model may well have helped keep it upright.
With the valve gear I noticed that the chassis components if not snapped perfectly together would cause the whole chassis to banana. This didn't help the already poor track holding or haulage for a start, but it also put stress on the slender coupling rods and crank pin causing them to fatigue very quickly. A few of the 9Fs that passed through my hands had moulding pips and flashing that needed cleaning up before the chassis would sit straight, haulage was almost doubled and derailments became confined to pointwork only. A lengthy chassis such as the 9F needs to be rigid with plenty of sideplay allowed in the wheelsets, and for good measure some articulation of the conecting rods would help prevent components being stressed by uneven trackwork, tight curvature or bent chassis. Thats before you even consider the all driven axles geared approach acting upon the con rods. If the leading, middle or trailing wheels were out of quarter by a fraction (axles 2 and 4 aren't pinned if I recall), they destroyed the valve gear as soon as the loco was run for the first time, which is exactly what happened to one of mine. There were numerous issues with the (first run) 9F, caused both by design and by poor assembly. Some were fixed, such as the problem pony truck, but some persist. The plastic chassis is one that remains, which is why my Minitrix fleet expanded as others sold theirs in favour of the Dapol model. I'd love to replace my tired old 9Fs, if only the Dapol model were a good strong slogger rather than a looker, I don't like depot queens ;) If any model deserves a new chassis, designed properly; its this one...Please!
Wildly veering OT so I'll stop it there.
Quote from: Zunnan on March 24, 2014, 03:27:26 PM
. I'd love to replace my tired old 9Fs, if only the Dapol model were a good strong slogger rather than a looker, I don't like depot queens ;) If any model deserves a new chassis, designed properly; its this one...Please!
The first batch ones were pretty bad and to be avoided IMHO. I have two second batch ones and these are ok, not as good pullers as others but will manage 30 wagons ok.
Interestingly I found one was poorer than the other, this was traced down to the pickups on the rear two drivers on one side not being bent out meaning the drivers were premanently pushed all to one side allowing the central driver to come off track at times. It was an odd one, but once corrected (really to get better pickup) the haulage increased markedly to match the other.
Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: bridgiesimon on March 22, 2014, 06:35:57 PM
Is that a hint that the 45xx and the M7 are going to be with decent chassis?
Dapol have confirmed on their FB page today that these locos will all be produced as per the original spec and with no upgrades. The toolings will then be retired (probably due to obsolescence rather than degredation). They have said they may redo these locos in future but it would be a full retool rather than an incremental upgrade,
That is massively disappointing. I do not see the point of making such massively sub standard models.
i am highly frustrated and disappointed!!
Simon
Somewhat disappointing if the chassis doesn't get a rework - the bodies are fine.
Still be useful to make some more nice white metal 0-4-4's instead of the M7
I'm intrigued at the extra overhead line equipment mentioned, especially the spans and end masts.
Eh? Are you sure you've posted on the correct thread here, SD35? :confused2:
Quote from: Bealman on March 25, 2014, 11:35:29 PM
Eh? Are you sure you've posted on the correct thread here, SD35? :confused2:
Read the catalogue carefully ... there is more overhead down to appear
Yeah... I just realised. Thanks, Alan, and my sincere apologies to you, SD35!
I was just going on recent posts and didn't see the relevance.
Once again, sorry! :-[
No sweat chief. It's tucked away right in the bottom corner under some saucy looking 86s.
.
Re Maunsell coaches:
I'm thinking of getting a Maunsell green UM T9 and wondering should I pre order the Dapol Maunsell Set 450 Lined Green BR (2P-012-251) for it to haul.
Advice/thoughts appreciated.
Dave G
Quote from: daveg on May 07, 2014, 08:14:55 AM
Re Maunsell coaches:
I'm thinking of getting a Maunsell green UM T9 and wondering should I pre order the Dapol Maunsell Set 450 Lined Green BR (2P-012-251) for it to haul.
Advice/thoughts appreciated.
Dave G
They didn't appear in
BR Green with any sort of lining - presumably they mean SR Olive Green, in which case go for it. I have a UM SR Green Greyhound and will be looking for something for it to haul, apart from a couple of SR Green CCTs...
Quote from: daveg on May 07, 2014, 08:14:55 AM
I'm thinking of getting a Maunsell green UM T9 and wondering should I pre order the Dapol Maunsell Set 450 Lined Green BR (2P-012-251) for it to haul.
I suspect that would look very smart indeed. I like Dapol's sets and it was a good move to offer Maunsells in this format since the SR ran so much of its stock in semi-permenant sets.
Cheers guys; I placed the order. Wonder when they will appear over the horizon?
Blown the budget totally by ordering the T9 as well by phone this afternoon. Colin Heard tells me it'll be on it's way tomorrow. My first UM loco! :claphappy:
Got to start planning the house hunt proper so must stop buying and get on with the 'de-cluttering'. Ugh!
Dave G
Just frustrating that they are only releasing the Southern livery initially, will have to wait for the Br ones!
Best wishes
Simon
I agree. You would have thought that after the overload of Maroon Gresleys they would have learned their lesson. Produce the first batch in a range of liveries and then do reruns of the ones that sell best.
Quote from: SD35 on March 26, 2014, 08:10:21 AM
It's tucked away right in the bottom corner under some saucy looking 86s.
Not that I need any more 86s... but what ones are these? Why are they saucy?
Cheers, NeMo
My catalogue came 'free' as a Dapol Collectors Club member, but is dated 2012/13.
It appears to have some of the newly announced items may be in it but I'm wondering if they have sent me the wrong catalogue.
There has been no response from Dapol, unsurprisingly. :doh:
I wonder if any one has experienced any benefits from membership of this Collectors club?
Quote from: NJB on May 07, 2014, 09:29:31 PM
I wonder if any one has experienced any benefits from membership of this Collectors club?
The limited edition models are very nice if they happen to suit your period/location.
Quote from: NJB on May 07, 2014, 09:29:31 PM
I wonder if any one has experienced any benefits from membership of this Collectors club?
As one who is not a member of the Collector's Club, I would trade in one or two relatives for the weathered green class 22/milk tank set.
Trouble is, no one would want them ::)
Quote from: newportnobby on May 08, 2014, 01:18:55 AM
As one who is not a member of the Collector's Club, I would trade in one or two relatives for the weathered green class 22/milk tank set.
Well this is always an option.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=121336704470&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en#ht_77wt_1147 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=121336704470&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en#ht_77wt_1147)
However it would be a lot cheaper to just join the club and buy it from Dapol.
Quote from: Karhedron on May 08, 2014, 03:17:12 PM
Quote from: newportnobby on May 08, 2014, 01:18:55 AM
As one who is not a member of the Collector's Club, I would trade in one or two relatives for the weathered green class 22/milk tank set.
Well this is always an option.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=121336704470&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en#ht_77wt_1147 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=121336704470&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en#ht_77wt_1147)
However it would be a lot cheaper to just join the club and buy it from Dapol.
Eek - thanks for the thought, but I reckon the relatives are safe (for the moment >:D)
Dr Joel Bright has acted, and is sending me an up to date brochure.
That's good service.. ;D
Quote from: Karhedron on May 07, 2014, 08:42:12 AM
Quote from: daveg on May 07, 2014, 08:14:55 AM
I'm thinking of getting a Maunsell green UM T9 and wondering should I pre order the Dapol Maunsell Set 450 Lined Green BR (2P-012-251) for it to haul.
I suspect that would look very smart indeed. I like Dapol's sets and it was a good move to offer Maunsells in this format since the SR ran so much of its stock in semi-permenant sets.
I've pre-ordered a Maunsell set too - just in time, it seems as Hattons are going to apply the Bachmann/Farish price increases on pre-orders at the weekend...
Have been perusing my reference books, and it seems that Dapol are producing a wider variety of Maunsell stock than is at first apparent.
1) The Maunsell set (number 450, BTK-CK-CK-BTK, vehicle numbers 4069-5161-5162-4070)
is should be a low-window Restriction 1 (8' 6" body width) set.
2) From looking at the CADs of the other coaches I have seen, the Brake vehicle has inset luggage bay and guard's duckets, which makes it a Restriction 4 (9' 0" body width, 8' 7" at the luggage end) vehicle. If it is supposed to be a Brake Composite, then that rules out it matching the 'set' as there were never any R1 Brake Compos. I haven't seen the corridor side of the Brake so can't comment on whether it is a low- or high-window coach*.
3) The non-brake vehicles I have seen CADs for (Third and Composite) have both been for low-window versions, so hopefully the Brake is a low-window one so it matches the other 'loose' coaches being produced, and the non-brake vehicles are R4, to match the Brake...
I guess we will have to see some pictures of the actual items (EPs, any one?) before seeing exactly what is coming out, but if my idle speculation is correct then we will have a bit more to celebrate...
*By low-window and high-window I am referring to the windows on the corridor side of the coach, which in low-window vehicles are all the same height; in high-window coaches, the corridor windows are extended to cantrail level, whereas the door and pseudo-door windows are the conventional size. Coaches made before 1929 are low-window types, those 1929 and later were high-window.
PS: The old, old Farish 'general purpose' corridor vehicles are spitting images for Maunsell R1 high-window stock...
Dapol have not listed a Brake Composite (sadly) in the catalogue. This is a bit of a shame as I would like to do a P-set. I would go by what is listed in the catalogue and not assume we are going to get an extra freebies.
I am tempted by the 4-coach set but I really wish they were doing one in Malachite livery as I model the post-war scene.
It seems odd that the Schools Class is only being released in Malachite green and the coaches are only being released in Maunsell Olive. Also the light Pacifics are more associated with Malachite. It is an odd choice of livery that does not match. :-\
Yes, it does seem to be rather odd their choice of unmatched greens. Anyone know why they would decide to do that?
I have a Schools on pre order and wonder what I will run with it. Meanwhile I'm looking forward to the time when I can see my new UM T9 (great looking loco) with the Dapol Maunsell set.
Dave G
Well, Dapol have said that they will do other liveries including malachite on the coaches eventually and Osborn's are doing a Schools in Maunsell green so I guess we will get all combinations eventually. :hmmm:
Quote from: Karhedron on May 14, 2014, 07:16:28 PM
Dapol have not listed a Brake Composite (sadly) in the catalogue. This is a bit of a shame as I would like to do a P-set. I would go by what is listed in the catalogue and not assume we are going to get an extra freebies.
Dapol's website (not often updated, I grant you, so not a reliable source) lists a Brake Composite. Further investigation of the options on the eHattons website reveals the Brake coach to be a 3rd...
Hardly a spitting image. End windows roof and other bits wrong but a good basis.
I'm not sure I'd read anything into proposed Dapol numbers.
Alan
What I was pleased (I think) to see is their 'No Gap' corridor connector.
Wonder if there's a small magnet to link the coaches and will there be a retro fit option for other coaches at any point?
Dave G
Maybe some of you have already found this but whilst searching Google for info on the forthcoming Maunsell coaches I came across this useful link which is not that obvious when you are navigating the main Dapol website. It has info on all their upcoming releases, click on the various links and you can see the current state of all their new releases, see http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=179_298_300 (http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=179_298_300)
Quote from: Caz on July 07, 2014, 08:58:21 AM
Maybe some of you have already found this but whilst searching Google for info on the forthcoming Maunsell coaches I came across this useful link which is not that obvious when you are navigating the main Dapol website. It has info on all their upcoming releases, click on the various links and you can see the current state of all their new releases, see http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=179_298_300 (http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=179_298_300)
Have been looking at that Launch section of their site for sometime hoping for positive news on the WC/BoB's, they were showing the M7 as 0-6-0? until I pointed it out to them!
Quote from: Caz on July 07, 2014, 08:58:21 AM
Maybe some of you have already found this but whilst searching Google for info on the forthcoming Maunsell coaches I came across this useful link which is not that obvious when you are navigating the main Dapol website. It has info on all their upcoming releases, click on the various links and you can see the current state of all their new releases, see http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=179_298_300 (http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=179_298_300)
Been a while since I saw that. The release date has slipped by a quarter but there's certainly more info available now for the Maunsell coaches. The brake van is interesting. I wonder if that's a 48ft converted LSWR fruit van. I already have my eyes on the Ultima kit for that.
A shame that they do not appear to have been able to align the release of the Maunsells with either of their new SR locos. Still, I am sure they will sell well regardless.
Quote from: Karhedron on July 07, 2014, 02:09:37 PM
A shame that they do not appear to have been able to align the release of the Maunsells with either of their new SR locos. Still, I am sure they will sell well regardless.
Best they don't hold them for the Schools and West Country/BoB to appear, those locos are so far past their originally planned release dates it is a joke!
Roy
Quote from: Karhedron on July 07, 2014, 02:09:37 PM
A shame that they do not appear to have been able to align the release of the Maunsells with either of their new SR locos. Still, I am sure they will sell well regardless.
If they've got 'em, release them... I've got other locos that can haul them without applying 'Rule 1'...
Weathered maroon Bulleid pacific with small yellow warning panel, anyone :-X