Yet another Dapol moan thread

[Sprintex]

I end up driving for 45 minutes to a local shop as the closest doesn't have the best reputation. I still haven't been there to check it out just incase I'm bitterly disappointed.

Going by your location if that "closest shop" is KS Models in Stevenage then they are pretty good

Like most small shops they don't carry much in the way of N gauge locos and coaches/wagons, but they'll happily order stuff in for you. Quite good on scenic stuff and construction items like brass, ali or plastic strip too

Due to semi-retirement they're only open Thursday-Saturday.


Paul

[Sprintex]

Thanks for that . . . might have to pay him a visit, just to browse like   


Paul

[Nik96]

I still haven't been [to closest local model shop] to check it out just in case I'm bitterly disappointed.

That's a bit silly tbh,  go check it out and make up your own mind.  Whoever it is saying it has a bad reputation may just be one disgruntled customer.

The closest shop I've been to and have just been mildly disappointed by limited offerings and high prices. It's probably worth a return visit though seeing as it's been a while. The alternative I haven't been to as it's 45 minutes away and don't want to make a journey like that to be dissapointed.

I end up driving for 45 minutes to a local shop as the closest doesn't have the best reputation. I still haven't been there to check it out just incase I'm bitterly disappointed.

Going by your location if that "closest shop" is KS Models in Stevenage then they are pretty good

Like most small shops they don't carry much in the way of N gauge locos and coaches/wagons, but they'll happily order stuff in for you. Quite good on scenic stuff and construction items like brass, ali or plastic strip too

Due to semi-retirement they're only open Thursday-Saturday.


Paul

I remember the selection of materials was good in there, It's worth a return trip as it's been a while but I just remember being put off by the prices with the limited selection.

This' more than likely a case of small shop syndrome and perhaps I have perceptions that aren't realistic.

[Newportnobby]

Just another minor issue with Dapol. On Wednesday I ordered 3 wagons off their website and, unlike all other online outlets I deal with, I received no e mailed order acknowledgment. OK, I could see my order on their website and the wagons arrived today so the service was fine but it struck me as strange

[Newportnobby]

Just another minor issue with Dapol. On Wednesday I ordered 3 wagons off their website and, unlike all other online outlets I deal with, I received no e mailed order acknowledgment. OK, I could see my order on their website and the wagons arrived today so the service was fine but it struck me as strange

When I've ordered in the past I received an acknowledgement of the order with the title "Dapol - Order ####". The email came from sales@dapol.co.uk and was within a few minutes of placing the order. Have you checked your spam folder?

Yup. No acknowledgment at all. I can only surmise when their website went down very recently some functions are still not back to normal then.

[PLD]

Common procedure for final inspection...
Choose an AQL (acceptable quality level)
Choose batch size
note failure rate from previous batch.
Look up sample size from aql tables
Look up number of failures allowed in sample
Carry out sample inspection/test
If failures less than allowed then ship batch and maybe reduce sample for next batch
If failures more than allowed then increase sample size as necessary. Maybe increase sample size for next batch.
Examine reasons for failures
Make improvements (design, components, operator training, test methods - whatever)
The limit for sampling depending on sample failures, could be zero for good quality and be 100 percent for poor quality
Yes it will cost more to have a bigger sample and a lot more to inspect 100 percent the whole point is to reduce customer exposure to faulty product and have a process of continuous improvement in design and production to achieve this and reduce failures and costs.

You forgot what appears to be the final step (if web forums are to be believed)
Send Customer X only items that failed the QA checks. Send Customer Y only items that passed the QA checks. 

Or perhaps that phenomenon of some getting all good ones and others all bad ones is actually explained by:

Maybe that would help if the retailer tested each loco. I know my failures have disappeared since I started buying in store where every loco I buy is tested and I can even choose the best runner. But this just means the retailer is doing the final inspection.

[Snowwolflair]

It has been theorized that the first true sign of computer consciousness will be seen when computers stet to be ashamed of what their owners do on them and turn themselves off.

Possibly a stirring of life on the Dapol server then?

[PLD]

All that is doing is loading expense onto the retailer (time to test each loco, deal with the returns) who will then want to pass that on to the customer (higher price).

I wonder how many people Hattons would have to employ to carefully unpack, test and repack each loco they sell?

Lets do the maths...
Give a quite generous 10 minutes per loco (including time to unpack & repack it) so say 6 locos tester per hour.
Assume the testers are paid a bit above minimum wage say £8/hour so with on-costs, it costs the employer around £12/hour in total.
That's £2 per loco.

I'd happily pay that insignificant extra on a £120++ item to guarantee it would work out of the box and avoid the hassle of having to return it...

[DELETED]

All that is doing is loading expense onto the retailer (time to test each loco, deal with the returns) who will then want to pass that on to the customer (higher price).

I wonder how many people Hattons would have to employ to carefully unpack, test and repack each loco they sell?

Lets do the maths...
Give a quite generous 10 minutes per loco (including time to unpack & repack it) so say 6 locos tester per hour.
Assume the testers are paid a bit above minimum wage say £8/hour so with on-costs, it costs the employer around £12/hour in total.
That's £2 per loco.

I'd happily pay that insignificant extra on a £120++ item to guarantee it would work out of the box and avoid the hassle of having to return it...

...There's no way a model retailer should test every loco before it goes out because it should be good to go from the factory.  The fact it may or may not be tested at the factory is another discussion.  But I agree, if for example the one chance I get to Harburn Hobbies each year -if I purchase a loco I'll ask it to be run up and down on the shelf before it's rung up on the till.

I personally have no axe to grind with Dapol because I have looked at a few of their locos I'm interested and the paint job was awful and not good enough for me to part with £90+.  I actually sold my last Dapol china clay tankers because I found the Dapol couplings never stayed connected -but hey they were beautiful to look at.

I'm at the point now Ican understand how the hobby will continue with folk willing to pay £150+.  I can't justify that and have pulled back on almost all loco purchases for some time since they went triple figures now, so those that will pay that are making up for me and the manufacturers will continue.

It's a tough one for the manufacturers I guess.  I think I came back to the hobby at a bad time after a long cessation since my youf' in OO: boom time for 2n'd hand, new products were cheap.  Now I'm seeing an almost 50% increase in prices in the last 2 years I am re-evaluating the hobby, I'm not sure what to do.

Rich

[silly moo]

As I've said in the past, I've been lucky with my Dapol purchases and had very few problems (touch wood)

I have one loco that screeches but otherwise runs well, I wanted to dismantle it and apply a tiny bit of oil to the motor bearings to try and stop the noise. Trying to get it apart was a nightmare as it clips together, so the body is held together with a combination of plastic and paint. I think most of their locos are like that, it's obviously easier, cheaper and quicker at the manufacturing stage to clip the locos together rather than to use screws. That makes it more difficullt for repairs to be made, so if they do pack up they are almost impossible to repair even if you can get spares!

They are designed to last for the two years of their guarantee period and after that you're on your own.

[Chris Morris]

All that is doing is loading expense onto the retailer (time to test each loco, deal with the returns) who will then want to pass that on to the customer (higher price).

I wonder how many people Hattons would have to employ to carefully unpack, test and repack each loco they sell?

Lets do the maths...
Give a quite generous 10 minutes per loco (including time to unpack & repack it) so say 6 locos tester per hour.
Assume the testers are paid a bit above minimum wage say £8/hour so with on-costs, it costs the employer around £12/hour in total.
That's £2 per loco.

I'd happily pay that insignificant extra on a £120++ item to guarantee it would work out of the box and avoid the hassle of having to return it...

Doesn't work out like that. The cost of employing someone is more than what you pay them - NI, pension, paid holidays etc. Also you have to have a facility - a desk, lamp, pc, test track. This takes up space which has to be found. This costs as space costs and once it is used for this it cant be used for making a profit on other work. The total cost would be at least double what you say. You will always get locos that run fine at first and then croak.

[PLD]

Lets do the maths...
Give a quite generous 10 minutes per loco (including time to unpack & repack it) so say 6 locos tester per hour.
Assume the testers are paid a bit above minimum wage say £8/hour so with on-costs, it costs the employer around £12/hour in total.
That's £2 per loco.

I'd happily pay that insignificant extra on a £120++ item to guarantee it would work out of the box and avoid the hassle of having to return it...

Doesn't work out like that. The cost of employing someone is more than what you pay them - NI, pension, paid holidays etc.

Read the post you quote in full before trying to pick holes in it...   

[Chris Morris]

Neither of us has The information to calculate the true cost would or how effective it would be.

This whole topic is rather disappointing. I started a topic to illustrate how Dapol had moved UK N gauge forward and illustrate what would not have been possible if they hadn't bothered. That topic had 44 replies. The mods quite rightly removed the moans from that topic and started a this one which has had 76 replies, frequently from people who know more about making model railways than Dapol. This topic will have been read by the human beings who work for and manage Dapol. They are real people working hard to make products that we enjoy. I am sure they are more frustrated with the issues from the Chinese factory than we are. I wouldn't blame them if they decided to not bother with any future N gauge projects,

[austinbob]

I understand what you're saying Chris, but at the end of the day they are a supplier and we are the customers. We must remember that a business exists to serve customers and if they don't have products that the customer wants and that work properly and reliably they will ultimately go out of business.
The performance of a business is ultimately down to the management and management systems.

I too feel sorry for people who work for companies who are sort of caught in the middle. People generally want to do a good job. If they are prevented from doing so by events or situations that are not under their control then that is very frustrating and also worrying in terms of job security.

The number of posts in this thread (76 I think you said) just reflects many customers frustration and disappointment at the poor quality they receive from some manufacturers.

We will have to bide our time and see if N gauge companies up their game or eventually go out of business. I don't believe things can carry on as they are in some quarters.

At the moment, for me, the compromise solution for minimising the risk of buying a dodgy loco is to by one in store at my local and very good retailer, who will test locos while I watch.

Costs 10% more than online but well worth the extra to avoid the disappointment of receiving and sorting out a dodgy model.

As I've said before I would rather the manufacturers sorted out their quality and reliablity issues and charged more.

[Yet_Another]

I agree with Chris: disappointing.

There are approximately the same number of contributors to both this and his tribute thread, but this one is twice as long.

A disappointing observation confirming the assertion that complaints outnumber praise.