DC vs DCC

[longbridge]

I think DC vs DCC debate can be likened to a standard model car with few extras as compared to a deluxe version of the same thing, basically they both do the same thing but one has a few goodies chucked in so the driver has more buttons to push.

After working in the HiFi trade and also a Pawnbroking shop for quite a few years I know people love to twiddle knobs and push buttons, no good for me though as my old Valve Amp only has a volume switch and mode selector.

[Mustermark]

Another section needed for computer control?

I would be happy to post some 'tutorial' threads under computer control. It might be interrsting just to people to see how it's done and maybe even consider it.

[EtchedPixels]

To me it depends on the layout - a little one train running branch gains nothing unless you want sound/lights. I run DC on most microlayout stuff but there are cases like depot layouts where DCC is helpful.

One of the best descriptions I ever saw was that DC is control from the signal box, DCC is driving the trains. Both have their place and neither IMHO is wrong/right. For the main layout I'm a DCC fan - I like sound, I like computer control, I like lighting and I like tech toys

[poliss]

The advantage with DCC on small layouts is being able to set CV65, kickstart. This enables you to start your loco at a crawl. http://www.loystoys.com/info/kick-start.html

[Newportnobby]

What is CTI ? - An overview of the CTI system.
http://www.cti-electronics.com/whatscti.htm

Thanks for posting this, Poliss. It looks superb but I'd love to see a practical demonstration on a DC layout as I'm also a computer numpty who trusts the damned things as far as I can throw the Blackpool Tower. Although I'm not exactly set in the clockwork age, I happen to like DC but CTI would add another dimension

[Mustermark]

If i get time this weekend i will post some pics of my CTI sey up and show you how easy it is. If i get video to work i might even be able to show you the inertia function in action.

[Newportnobby]

If i get time this weekend i will post some pics of my CTI sey up and show you how easy it is. If i get video to work i might even be able to show you the inertia function in action.

Cheers, Mark. I hope you manage it as I will be really interested to see it in action. Even if you can just show a (numpty's) guide to how it's connected up will probably be a help Is it available in the UK or just mail order from the good ole US of A please?

[Miek]

This thread has made me think a bit about whether DCC is really worth it for me. (Thanks for your comments btw) The thing that's bugging me is that you need two controllers in Dapol's 156. (I'm thinking about some sort of cable link with a tiny plug socket arrangement, so that you can just have one decoder (something like a micro USB, but I haven't been able to find a male - female pair))

I really like DCC and DCC control of the european models I have had in the past were great. I really liked lights on my locos. Even when they were stopped. I could flash the lights on a particular loco number, just to be sure that I had got the correct engine before I start driving it. I could set up accelleration and breaking. And I can add locos together on the same track. When my nephews visited and wanted to drive the trains, the max speed was already set up on the chip so they couldn't derail the train at the first corner. The only thing I'm not keen on is the sound. I was at the nthusists show a couple of weeks ago and there was a small DCC layout in a room with other small layouts but it was really noisy (like a noisy TV). If these models are 1:148, then the sound should be 1:148 too, so you would probably not hear it unless you were a mouse.

But now, with two unconverted british locos, I'm thinking whether to do this for the new layout. On the other hand, after reading the other posts, I think that the other ideas for DC control (cab control) could also do everything but the lights, sound, multiheading, and pre programmed acceleration. Wiring and control panels would be more complicated. 

I like EP's quote about where you are driving the trains from. And I like the CTI information too. Somthing to think about 

[moogle]

I'm a DC er. I've nowt against DCC and if I were starting out today I'd go down that route.
But after 25+ years of N gauging I doubt I ever will.
Most of my loco's are 20 years old at least and the last thing I want to do is start hacking them about!

The way I've always looked at DCC, regardless of scale or prototype modelled, is that the need for it increases with the number of trains/loco's that will be running on your layout at any one time.
So if you are modelling a country branchline, there's not really much you're going to get out of it.
If its a busy city terminus on the other hand, you will benefit from DCC.
Two extremes I know but its how I get round it in my head!

And as others have said, DCC is not new.
Zero One was DCC and thats been around since the 1970's!

[EtchedPixels]

This thread has made me think a bit about whether DCC is really worth it for me. (Thanks for your comments btw) The thing that's bugging me is that you need two controllers in Dapol's 156. (I'm thinking about some sort of cable link with a tiny plug socket arrangement, so that you can just have one decoder (something like a micro USB, but I haven't been able to find a male - female pair))

If you can live with the stuff being wired together it is worth doing and wiring both the power and lights across the two cars, which also really improves power pick up of course. Most connectors are too rigid or too big so I've always put the connector join inside one vehicle so I can split them for maintenance but not usually. If you go this way use very fine black wire for the link and keep it low down. For the visual reason it looks like authentic train 'plumbing' and the practical reason that high up it is much more likely to cause problems on S bends and crossovers by pushing the stock sideways and toppling it.

layout in a room with other small layouts but it was really noisy (like a noisy TV). If these models are 1:148, then the sound should be 1:148 too, so you would probably not hear it unless you were a mouse.

Each to his/her own - they have a volume control CV !

[GT VIRUS]

As a new modeller, I plan to run DCC from the start, despite only starting with an oval. I plan on building (at some point!) an automated Terminus station, and DCC will make things alot easier when it comes to that! To me, it seems like DCC and do the more complicated stuff more easily.

[BlythStationLad]

I'm with DCC: my layout will eventually have around 50 points as it's a faithful copy of a real station, complete with scissors crossovers, single slips, two double junctions and diamonds. I would not have had a hope in hell of wiring that up for DC. Even if I could have done so the complexities involved in running more than one train at a time would have been well beyond my ability.

So for me it's DCC: yes it's more expensive but I accept that as something I can afford to bear (and no, I'm not affluent!). I do notice an improvement in the running with DCC over DC too.

Even if I'd been starting with a small layout I think I would still choose DCC, for the simpler wiring and better running. The sound aspect doesn't come into it with me: it would be nice to have in a quiet room but forget it at an exhibition - it's lost in the general background noise. As for DCC point operation, well I'm not into automatic route setting, etc., so I'll stick with stud and probe which works well (amazingly, given my lack of electrical expertise).

[Newportnobby]

Fair play, sir. If I was starting from scratch I would maybe venture into DCC but I didn't so I can't. I dunno how much it costs to have a loco chipped but I have 43 so someone can do the math. 

[kirky]

To me it seems that most people miss the point entirely. Whether you are arguing DC or DCC, steam or diesel, UK or continental, Southern or LNER N or OO Etc etc .
Surely the point is that additions to the hobby like DCC should be welcomed because they make the hobby richer. I really enjoy fiddling with computers but I'm not great on train recognition. This doesn't mean I'm any less an enthusiast. I enjoy my hobby for what I can get out of it. It is the multi-faceted approach of the hobby that makes it so interesting to so many. Our hobby has so many branches that it can seem we enjoy different hobbies, but surely these branches are all part of the same tree?

All of course in my very humble opinion.

Cheers
Kirky

[Newportnobby]

Hi Kirky, I don't think people are necessarily missing the point as there are just too many factors to take into account. Certainly our hobby has to progress, and progress should be welcomed. However, someone like me who has spent over 20 years collecting locos, stock etc just cannot afford to make the change from DC to DCC. Apart from that I'm a complete pillock who thinks chips come in newspaper with saveloys I do, however, want to move with the times so am really hoping to see more of the CTI that I can use with my DC stuff to give my set up more life. I would also like to see N gauge steamers with smoke but how much would I have to pay for all the conversions of current locos? I guess it's like a lot of electrical things - you buy something and within 6 months the next generation model comes out with all the bells and whistles you wish you had on the one you bought. To some extent I wish I was many years younger and was just starting out in our hobby as the ability to have the benefits of DCC such as coach/loco lighting at standstill is extremely desirable, but I have no wish to sell off what I have collected over many years. Sorry, I've just read all this through and I'm rambling (too much beer) so nuff said