Is a spell of unrealistically fast running beneficial to locos?

port perran · February 18, 2019, 07:20:16 PM

I (like many others)run my locomotives at a slow (realistic) speed around my layouts as to me it looks completely wrong to see trains hurtling around. It's also one of my pet hates at exhibitions.
But........is it good for locomotives to give them a short burst of fast running once in a while? Either on the layout (as long as it doesn't derail) or on a test bed or wheel cleaning device.
What do others think?
Does the mechanism benefit from a good "thrash" very occasionally?

austinbob · February 18, 2019, 07:28:23 PM

Quote from: port perran on February 18, 2019, 07:20:16 PM
I (like many others)run my locomotives at a slow (realistic) speed around my layouts as to me it looks completely wrong to see trains hurtling around. It's also one of my pet hates at exhibitions.
But........is it good for locomotives to give them a short burst of fast running once in a while? Either on the layout (as long as it doesn't derail) or on a test bed or wheel cleaning device.
What do others think?
Does the mechanism benefit from a good "thrash" very occasionally?

I would imagine that too high a speed would stress the motor both mechanically and electrically (higher voltage). For steamers there will be more stress on the motion linkages cos of all that reciprocating motion. That can result in jams and breakages. (been there got the T shirt)
For running in manufacturers recommend 'moderate' speed. Must be a reason for that.
Just my 2 pennerth. Could be wrong

Caz · February 18, 2019, 07:32:15 PM

I must admit I give the locos on Claywell a little faster run every now and again as like Martin Claywell's locos run at scale speeds. I use about three quarter speed to not overstress them, I'm sure it helps.

Bealman · February 18, 2019, 07:58:55 PM

With some of my older Poole Farish locomotives, I have to kick start them on full throttle to even get them going. Only after a few minutes of this do they seem to warm up and settle down to more realistic and controlable speeds.

Train Waiting · February 18, 2019, 08:32:50 PM

Martin

I think that the answer is, within reason, yes.

Just like a motor car likes a run along a motorway at 70mph. In my days with old motorbicycles a 'fast flap' would often cure a machine that was a bit 'lumpy' in its running. I make sure that I give my Union Mills locomotives a brisk canter around the layout and they appear to enjoy it.

With regard to Bob's helpful post, I think the important bit here is 'canter' rather than a full-out gallop where the risk of a steam locomotive's motion tying itself in knots can be a worry.

And, by the way, I always make sure that my locomotives do a good bit of tender first running as well, so that they don't wear into a 'forward only' pattern. Likewise for clockwise and anti-clockwise running; they get a turn on both the Up and Down lines.

But, as you say, none of this is suitable for exhibition running!

Best wishes.

John

dannyboy · February 18, 2019, 08:33:36 PM

Quote from: Bealman on February 18, 2019, 07:58:55 PM
kick start them on full throttle to even get them going. Only after a few minutes of this do they seem to warm up

I think that applies to a few of us on the forum.
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Oh sorry, were you talking about loco's?

Bealman · February 18, 2019, 09:12:18 PM

Definitely applies to me at the moment!

paulprice · February 18, 2019, 09:25:07 PM

And me :'(

Old Crow · February 18, 2019, 11:25:40 PM

Interesting. All my locos are "pre-owned" and some are a bit ancient (like myself!). I do find the older ones can be a bit reluctant on first running,, particularly if they haven't been run for a bit. But they do seem to ease up after a bit - as they get warm I expect and some do benefit from a a few extra volts and a good run. Fortunately these tend to be 0-6-0's as I too am somewhat concerned over minute valve gear, especially on the Dapol.
I'm just wondering - what would you say is it that "warm's up" and runs free-er? Are we talking old bearings, sticky oil or worm meshing with pinion? any thoughts?

Webbo · February 19, 2019, 12:39:02 AM

Mike Fifer in his excellent video on loco lubrication suggests that oil and grease gradually evaporates in locos left lying around leaving sticky residues that impair loco running. So, running them for a while after they have been left frees up the mechanism so that they will run better. However, this is no substitute for keeping the locos properly lubricated.

Webbo

Bealman · February 19, 2019, 03:24:14 AM

In response to Old Crow's post above, the locos I refer to in my post #4 are indeed 0-6-0s. I'm talking about an early GP tank, pannier tank and in particular the old gronk without outside frames.

I can understand people's concern about intricate gear on steam locomotives at high speed. The ultra simple rod in the 08 has a tendency to dislodge at full throttle!

That old Poole 08 model is still one of my favourites, though.... it was sent to me by my late mother, and I still use it as a test loco when diagnosing track electrical problems, plus it clears my curved platforms.

Long term members of this parish may remember what happened to my outside-framed 08 when it encountered the platform at Castle Eden!

railsquid · February 19, 2019, 04:55:37 AM

Quote from: Bealman on February 19, 2019, 03:24:14 AM
Long term members of this parish may remember what happened to my outside-framed 08 when it encountered the platform at Castle Eden!

Was that the one which achieved escape velocity?

I have an older Fleischmann loco which needs a few laps at maximum controller output to "warm up"; I assume due to a worsening case of internal sticky residue, and it is now out of action pending round tuits.

On the whole, I think running a locomotive which is in good condition at maximum speed for a while is unlikely to do any direct harm, though I suppose there's a risk of side-effects particularly with kettles and their delicate valve-roddy bits.

I imagine doing it with a loco which is in not so good condition may actually make things worse, even if it appears to improve things.

I do from time to time acquire older 2nd hand Japanese stock for very little money which needs degunking and strategic lubrication; in those cases I do run them at speed for a while as it seems to help the lubrication spread to where it is needed.

I do also give the Shinkansens a good blast every now and then, but they're designed for it, and even then I wouldn't do that for a long period (one keeps hearing tales of people who burn out their Shinkansen motors).

But usually I like things to run at a nice slow trundle.

Bealman · February 19, 2019, 05:06:43 AM

I'd forgotten about that video! Must see if I can find it.

No, the light speed gronk was the original Poole one.

Newportnobby · February 19, 2019, 09:57:02 AM

Quote from: railsquid on February 19, 2019, 04:55:37 AM
Quote from: Bealman on February 19, 2019, 03:24:14 AM
Long term members of this parish may remember what happened to my outside-framed 08 when it encountered the platform at Castle Eden!

Was that the one which achieved escape velocity?

No. It was the one that stood on its nose, if I recall.

Bealman · February 19, 2019, 10:32:08 AM

The 08 Squiddy is referring to was the Poole one. The one doing cartwheels was the newer model.

However, referring to the OP, running the Poole model full blast does not seem to have done it any harm, in fact I have to do that to get it going!

I agree with previous comment here, though. I don't think running models flat chat frequently does them any good in the long term - I wouldn't do that with my Blue Pullman, for example.