Should I buy a Class 25 ?

[Newportnobby]

I'm not knowledgeable enough to pick out the faults and if it looks like a class 25 it is a class 25 in my mind.

Simply compare the model to a photo of the real thing - you'll soon easily spot the differences and errors - and then it won't be a class 25 in your mind.

IMO the old Farish model is very dated and no longer worth buying. Far better to wait for the new Bachmann version (now already produced as an EP model) which will have finer details, hopefully be more accurate and be made to modern standards with modern features like working lights, DCC ready, NEM coupler sockets, etc.

H.

Somehow can't see the new one being available for less than £50 which is what Port Perran has to spend. As far as detailing goes, just consider the popularity of Union Mills stuff.

[H]

Somehow can't see the new one being available for less than £50 which is what Port Perran has to spend. As far as detailing goes, just consider the popularity of Union Mills stuff.

No, I'm sure it will be more than £50, but £50 is not necessarily all he has to spend - it is an extra amount provided as a Christmas present and could be added to. Plus, of course, it would be a suitable deposit and there will be time to save up the balance before the model becomes available.

UM stuff is popular not because of the lack of detailing, but because they produce working RTR model locos that are not otherwise available, but with the class 25 a better alternative will become available next year.

H.

[Newportnobby]

Of course a better model will be available and I spoke at length to Farish at TINGS about the improvements they were making. At the end of the day it depends whether the OP wishes to wait an indeterminate length of time.

[NeMo]

UM stuff is popular not because of the lack of detailing, but because they produce working RTR model locos that are not otherwise available, but with the class 25 a better alternative will become available next year.

I'm not sure this is entirely the whole story, H. One reason people like the Union Mills models is that they're solid, reliable models that pull trains well. Probably like a lot of people, I didn't need a Union Mills steam train. So the fact the Adams 0395 wasn't made by anyone else is irrelevant. But I did see photos of the model online that looked good, and the comments on the running quality of Union Mills speaks volumes about how well they're made. You could argue that they're toy trains because of their relative lack of detail. But they are very, very good toy trains, and if (like me) you care more about playing trains than accurately mimicking the real railway, then they're great!

I agree with newportnobby that it basically comes down to choosing between an better but much more expensive model that won't be out for a year, or else a mediocre model that's available inexpensively right now. I don't think anyone is saying the current Farish 25 is a good model in terms of looks, but the mechanism inside works well, and at well under £50, the purchaser gets a reliable and perfectly serviceable brand new model train to play with! By contrast the new Farish 25 is slated for well into next year at an RRP of £99.95.

All this said... I do have to agree with you H that personally I would't spend £45-50 on the current Farish 25. I don't see that (personally) as money well spent, particularly when there are much better models available now for that amount of money -- like the Farish 47 or the Dapol 86. So if I wanted a new toy train to play with, I'd spend my money on such models instead. Personally, I'd sooner have a good model that doesn't fit my precise era and region than a poor model that does. But if a 25 fitted into my plan and I liked the way the model looked -- even if it wasn't 100% or even 75% perfect -- then why not buy it? It's cheap and cheerful, and with a bit of weathering might look rather nice!

Cheers, NeMo

[ParkeNd]

Somehow can't see the new one being available for less than £50 which is what Port Perran has to spend. As far as detailing goes, just consider the popularity of Union Mills stuff.

No, I'm sure it will be more than £50, but £50 is not necessarily all he has to spend - it is an extra amount provided as a Christmas present and could be added to. Plus, of course, it would be a suitable deposit and there will be time to save up the balance before the model becomes available.

UM stuff is popular not because of the lack of detailing, but because they produce working RTR model locos that are not otherwise available, but with the class 25 a better alternative will become available next year.

H.

Hattons per-order price on the 25/1 is £84.96 and it will be available wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeenever.

This prompted me to cancel my pre-order and spend the £45. There will always be a better anything and everything - but in the meantime you could enjoy a £45 Class 25/3.

[Chris in Prague]

A green Class 25 would fit in better even if it's a good few years to early for the modelled time period. Not having seen one close up I won't comment on its faults BUT, I think it's important to remember that at normal viewing distance the fine details do not show. Personally, I like the old Graham Farrish Class 33s and Battle of Britain / West Countrys as, from normal operating distance, pulling a train, they look the part. Granted the BoB / WCs benefit from new bogie overlays and fitting front steps, etc. and the Class 33s need some detailing, too BUT compared with the Minitrix Warship and Class 27 I had years ago, they're fine models. (Mind you the Minitrix locos were excellent runners and soloidly engineered, as you'd expect.)

So . . . go for it, enjoy a Class 25 a few years too early but try to get a two-tone green one (a nice livery)!

[EtchedPixels]

UM stuff is popular not because of the lack of detailing, but because they produce working RTR model locos that are not otherwise available, but with the class 25 a better alternative will become available next year.

Also the UM stuff is generally the right shape (some exceptions especially early stuff) and some tender choice compromises. So detailing a UM loco is starting from a good base. Detailing the Farish 25 is at a certain level "turd polishing" - no matter how much you polish at the end of the day its still s...

You can do a passable job on it though and its a good price for trying and learning.

Alan

[Newportnobby]

I guess at the end of the day it depends what the individual is trying to create.
Personally I am just trying to create the look of what I remember from my youth and I would be the first to agree if the current 25 looked nothing like one. The fact it resembles what I can remember without recourse to reference books is fine and dandy with me. I have no idea of what carriages are what and in what specific formations they ran in - it's enough for me to run a 6-8 coach train with a brake on the end. Like I say, if it looks OK then to my little mind, it is OK. The bonus of it running very smoothly far outweighs any other deficiencies and I, for one, will not be attempting to remove the glazing and try and fit flush glazing. I have better things to do.
There are those who can pick fault with all sorts of models or modify them to as near as damnit what they should look like and, if that floats your boat, who am I to disagree?
A turd it may be, but it bears a passing resemblance to the turds I remember and that's good enough for me

[ParkeNd]

^^^^WHS

Good honest down to earth logic. Thank you that man.

[H]

I'm not sure this is entirely the whole story, H. One reason people like the Union Mills models is that they're solid, reliable models that pull trains well.

That might also be a consideration but it still doesn't make them popular because of the lack of fine detail. As EP says the old class 25 is something of a turd and the new version will be significantly better. As you mention it's not a good buy to get one of them (the old Poole version) at around £50 and I certainly wouldn't recommend it.

But at the end of the day its the OP money and if he wants to waste it on one then so be it. However, I'd rather spend the money on something better.

H.

[NeMo]

But at the end of the day its the OP money and if he wants to waste it on one then so be it. However, I'd rather spend the money on something better.

I do see your point, H, but worry about the word "waste" here. These are toy trains. Unless your toy trains shuttle around (tiny) goods around a factory or something, then they don't do anything useful. Ergo, they're a waste of money. Their only value is that perceived by the owner as something entertaining. If you need a £100 toy train version of the Class 25 to be happy, while the original poster was happy with a £45 toy train of the same locomotive, then who's wasting more money? Perhaps neither of you, perhaps both. It's all subjective.

It's like going to the cinema, visiting the pub, or eating out at a restaurant. In and of itself, it's money down the drain; the only value is in the amount of pleasure obtained in the process.

That might also be a consideration but it still doesn't make them popular because of the lack of fine detail.

Possibly true, but the small volume of production limits their "popularity" to a much greater degree, surely. Plenty of toy trains with limited detail sell extremely well. Union Mills models are clearly popular enough that Colin Heard can hand-make these models pretty much on his own all year round, and still have enough demand left over for secondhand prices to stay remarkably buoyant (rarely under £50 in my experience). He's also bringing out new models every year. But the fact these aren't sold online or in any major retailer except as secondhand models stops them being well known, I'd wager. But at the end of the day you and I are both speculating here (unless of course you have a degree in Economics and/or know more about Colin Heard's business accounts than you're letting on!).

Cheers, NeMo

[Chris in Prague]

Their only value is that perceived by the owner as something entertaining. If you need a £100 toy train version of the Class 25 to be happy, while the original poster was happy with a £45 toy train of the same locomotive, then who's wasting more money? Perhaps neither of you, perhaps both. It's all subjective.
Cheers, NeMo
[/quote]

Exactly. If a current Graham Farrish Class 25 gives pleasure then who are we to say that it should not be bought because it does not have the level of detail that can only be appreciated if held up to a 'rivet counter's' eye? A big advantage of the small size of N Gauge is that we can model complete trains in the landscape. For a 'rivet counter', 00 or, even better, 0 Gauge would, IMHO, be the size to choose.

Re: coach formations, in an earlier post; personally, I like to have realistic formations and with so much material available on the Internet and in books that is not difficult to do but, again, that gives ME pleasure. I'm not going to criticise someone for running what looks right for them.

As for Union Mills, the owner serves a niche market but niche markets can be very profitable as he is satisfying the wants of buyers who are not being served by the much bigger manufacturers. I just wish he would bring out a model of a T9 with the same splashers as 30120 so I can run preserved 120 when i'n running a Summer Saturday 1962 timetable.

[Chris in Prague]

There will always be a better anything and everything - but in the meantime you could enjoy a £45 Class 25/3.
[/quote]

Again, fully agree. This used to be the case with notebook computers and, more recently, smartphones, too. The buyer has to evaluate the benefit of paying something today and enjoying it. Money cannot buy time. Time lost waiting for something 'better' (and more expensive) would, IMHO, be better spent enjoying the use of something today. After all, none of us are getting any younger!

[H]

.
These are toy trains. Unless your toy trains shuttle around (tiny) goods around a factory or something, then they don't do anything useful. Ergo, they're a waste of money. Their only value is that perceived by the owner as something entertaining. If you need a £100 toy train version of the Class 25 to be happy, while the original poster was happy with a £45 toy train of the same locomotive, then who's wasting more money? Perhaps neither of you, perhaps both. It's all subjective.

It's like going to the cinema, visiting the pub, or eating out at a restaurant. In and of itself, it's money down the drain; the only value is in the amount of pleasure obtained in the process.

Sorry, but you're wrong there. Money spent, even on luxury unnecessary goods, is a contributory effect in the economy; apart from the multiplier effect, it creates demand, jobs and generates taxes. It isn't a waste or down the drain. And for the purchaser it provides a feeling of well being and satisfaction. Just that for me purchasing a sub-standard product like the Poole class 25 wouldn't do that, and a higher spec/quality one would be better 'value' IMO. 

H.

[H]

If a current Graham Farrish Class 25 gives pleasure then who are we to say that it should not be bought because it does not have the level of detail that can only be appreciated if held up to a 'rivet counter's' eye?

Quite simply because the OP asked for our opinion - and the thread is titled "should I buy a class 25?".

Consequently my opinion is that he should not buy the Poole class 25 but consider the new Bachmann version. And I don't think it's particularly necessary to brand everyone who prefers fine and accurate details with the term 'rivet counter' as that is rather derogatory.

H.