My layout, 'Ferryhill' is set in the north-east of England during the period 1955 to 1968.
By coincidence, at a swap meet a few years ago, I bought a copy of the Observer's Book of Railway Locomotives by Ernest F Carter dated 1955.
I thought it was interesting because the book includes all of BR (ex-LNER) loco types in operation from 1955 to the end of steam. That is, the same approximate geographical area during the same time period as 'Ferryhill'.
I thought it would be interesting to list all of these steam locomotive types and the corresponding N gauge models (if available). I excluded ex-LMS and BR standard types that worked on LNER metals during this period and just confined the list to ex-LNER prototypes.
I have included many N gauge loco models that are no longer available except on the second-hand market and many of the manufacturers listed are no longer in business.
The refreshing to see that, although many white metal kits are no longer available, there is a growth in the production of 3D prints.
In case anyone is interested, I have attached a draft copy of my list to this post and would appreciate any additional information in order to fill in the blanks and/or comments and corrections.
Ian
P.S. Just to clarify, if an ex-LNER loco type was not in operation in 1955, it will not be on the list. There are some N gauge models of LNER locos that were scrapped before 1955 but they are not listed.
P.P.S. Before anyone asks, I am NOT planning to make similar lists for the other Big Four companies and BR standards (there is only so much time in the day).
Thanks for the list, Ian. I was aware of most of them, but there is at least one error in the list; the Farish J67/69 was done in GER livery, and I'm personally not aware it was in GNR livery.
Later additions;
Note that BHE do a Belpaire and round top boiler D16/3; technically, from PMs to a Forum member I've done on research today, the Belpaire version is incorrect with the style of footplate supplied in the kit. These kits, and the BHE B12, were mastered by Phil Kerr.
Some years ago, Stelfox did an etched N7 and J17, shot down from their 4mm range; I believe thebrighton has built the J17 and is on his GER thread.
The Foxhunter K3 used a Farish Crab chassis (I've got one), and bespoke tender chassis.
The Foxhunter J39 used a Farish Hall chassis.
The BHE J70 uses either a Farish 4w DMU motor bogie, or a 6w tender drive from Lima 4F. The kit is a bit of a cross breed between the J70 and Y6. Mine is fitted with B+B couplings and also chipped.
Martyn
Wow! That is just brilliant, Ian. I've copied it straight into my 'Useful Info' file!
There's a lot of work in there, and I appreciate it.
Cheers,
Chris
Great stuff Ian! Thank you very much indeed.
I might have missed it but I didn't notice the 'J38' 0-6-0 on your list. Union Mills has made it.
Thanks again and best wishes.
John
Excellent Ian, thank you :thumbsup:
Foxhunter also did a J39/1, the sub-class with the LNER 3500 gall tender. It's the version which I've got.
Martyn
Quote from: martyn on April 24, 2022, 04:00:07 PM
the Farish J67/69 was done in GER livery, and I'm personally not aware it was in GNR livery.
I think it is a typo in my list; it should say "LNER" not "GNR"
@martyn (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=447): Thank for the other info you sent. I will update my list.
Quote from: Train Waiting on April 24, 2022, 04:08:05 PMI might have missed it but I didn't notice the 'J38' 0-6-0 on your list. Union Mills has made it.
You are correct; Union Mills has made a J38. I found it on a couple of old price lists. In my defense, the "Spotter's Guide to British Locomotives" (which lists all N gauge RTR locos) does not list the J38 either! I will notify Howard Foy of Engee Publishing so he can correct future editions.
Quote from: martyn on April 24, 2022, 06:48:10 PMFoxhunter also did a J39/1, the sub-class with the LNER 3500 gall tender. It's the version which I've got. Martyn
Thanks. I will add the J39/1 to my list.
In addition, I recently came across a company called D&M that made white metal kits. They made kits for the J39 and a J52.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/122/3276-250422195514.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=122154)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/122/3276-250422200731.png) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=122155)
In addition to the above LNER locos, I have also found photos of the following kits made by D&M:
- Rebuilt Royal Scot
- Rebuilt Jubilee
- Fowler 4F
- Fowler Patriot
- Stanier Princess
- LMS Turbomotive
Their boxes are marked:
Sole Trade Distributer: Jarvis Mnfg Ltd
Lower Carr Mill, Hopes Carr, Stockport, Cheshire
Made in Huddersfield, England
Anyone know anything about this company?
Thanks for everyone's input on my loco list. Keep the comments and corrections coming.
When the comments die down, I will update my list and re-publish.
Ian
Quote from: martyn on April 24, 2022, 04:00:07 PM
Thanks for the list, Ian. I was aware of most of them, but there is at least one error in the list; the Farish J67/69 was done in GER livery, and I'm personally not aware it was in GNR livery.
Wasnt the Farish J67/69 available in lined BR black,GER blue LMS and Southern?
I have the lined black and blue GER versions,and they work!
Andy
Later additions;
Note that BHE do a Belpaire and round top boiler D16/3; technically, from PMs to a Forum member I've done on research today, the Belpaire version is incorrect with the style of footplate supplied in the kit. These kits, and the BHE B12, were mastered by Phil Kerr.
Some years ago, Stelfox did an etched N7 and J17, shot down from their 4mm range; I believe thebrighton has built the J17 and is on his GER thread.
The Foxhunter K3 used a Farish Crab chassis (I've got one), and bespoke tender chassis.
The Foxhunter J39 used a Farish Hall chassis.
The BHE J70 uses either a Farish 4w DMU motor bogie, or a 6w tender drive from Lima 4F. The kit is a bit of a cross breed between the J70 and Y6. Mine is fitted with B+B couplings and also chipped.
Martyn
I think my contribution is in the middle of a post!
I have two Farish Holdens a lined black one and the GER blue one.They are both in good working order but not run very often!
Andy
Quote from: icairns on April 25, 2022, 08:21:24 PM
Their boxes are marked:
Sole Trade Distributer: Jarvis Mnfg Ltd
Lower Carr Mill, Hopes Carr, Stockport, Cheshire
Made in Huddersfield, England
Ian, I presume this should be Javis Manufacturing Ltd, see link below
http://javis.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4&Itemid=14 (http://javis.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4&Itemid=14)
Mike H
Quote from: icairns on April 25, 2022, 08:21:24 PM
Quote from: Train Waiting on April 24, 2022, 04:08:05 PMI might have missed it but I didn't notice the 'J38' 0-6-0 on your list. Union Mills has made it.
You are correct; Union Mills has made a J38. I found it on a couple of old price lists. In my defense, the "Spotter's Guide to British Locomotives" (which lists all N gauge RTR locos) does not list the J38 either! I will notify Howard Foy of Engee Publishing so he can correct future editions.
Many thanks, Ian. The 'J38' was common hereabouts on the former NBR lines but nowhere else. Interestingly, it was the last Gresley-designed engine in BR service.
With best wishes.
John
Quote from: BramptonBranch on April 25, 2022, 09:17:29 PMWasnt the Farish J67/69 available in lined BR black,GER blue LMS and Southern?
I have the lined black and blue GER versions,and they work!
Andy
Interesting! Your comment reminded me of something and caused me to do some more research. I now believe that the GER Holden tank was produced in GER blue, LNER green and BR black. Supporting this information, see the extract from the 1973 Graham Farish catalogue below. It shows the GER/LNER/BR liveries as you have stated.
The "Spotter's Guide to British Locomotives" omits the BR liveried Holden tank, hence my mistake.
But the Southern and LMS version are not exactly the same as the Holden tanks. GF labelled them "Standard Tank Locos". As can be seen, the Standard tanks do not have the tool boxes and condensing gear on top of the side tanks. These Standard Tanks were presumably forerunners of the later General Purpose (GP) tanks produced by Graham Farish.
Ian
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/122/3276-260422034626.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=122160)
@icairns (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3276) there is a GEM ex GCR D11 whitemetal kit for the GraFar 4-4-0 chassis.
Thanks,
Mark
Quote from: Platy767 on April 26, 2022, 05:38:14 AM
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3276) there is a GEM ex GCR D11 whitemetal kit for the GraFar 4-4-0 chassis.
Thanks,
Mark
Thanks for the info! I do not have a good list of GEM kits so I appreciate the input.
Ian
Quote from: Nbodger on April 25, 2022, 09:41:40 PMIan, I presume this should be Javis Manufacturing Ltd, see link below
http://javis.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4&Itemid=14 (http://javis.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4&Itemid=14)
Mike H
Interesting. It appears that Jarvis Manufacturing is still going strong. They seem to distribute a variety of model railway items although the products for some of the lines seem to be pretty sparse. Interesting that D&M (presumably a small business) would bother to list their sole trade distributer on their packaging.
Anyone got any D&M kits? I think there is one up for sale on eBay right now.
Ian
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/122/3276-260422054545.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=122162)
I didn't add the SR and LMS version of the J67 (look at the position of the safety valves) as the body has another modification; the dome is moved further back than the GER/LNER version.
The J67/69 class was a real nightmare to work out, as there were many variations of both classes.
I don't really know, but thought the BHE J39 may have been the former D+M one?
Martyn
Later; it appears from the BHE catalogue that most of the former D+M range is now part of BHE, though some are listed as unavailable and others are missing.
I thought D&M were taken over by Invictascene in the early in 1970s who in turn were taken over by BH Enterprises.
Quote from: martyn on April 24, 2022, 04:00:07 PMNote that BHE do a Belpaire and round top boiler D16/3; technically, from PMs to a Forum member I've done on research today, the Belpaire version is incorrect with the style of footplate supplied in the kit.
Martyn
Hi, @martyn (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=447):
I am not an expert in these GER engines (in fact I know very little about them). But I have a question regarding the above.
According to the BHE price list dated 21 December 2021 (relevant page attached as a pdf file), BHE offer the following two kits:
- S24 Holden D15 "Claude Hamilton" 4-4-0
- S24a Gresley D16/3 rebuilt "Claude Hamilton" 4-4-0
I believe that the D15 prototype had a Belpaire firebox and the D16/3 had a round top boiler. Is this correct?
I did not include the D15 kit on my list as they had all been withdrawn by 1952.
Are you saying that BHE do two D16/3 variants with a Belpaire firebox and a round top boiler?
Or is the Belpaire the D15 and the round top boiler a D16/3?
Sorry in my ignorance astounds you. I just want to get my list correct.
Thanks.
Ian
@icairns (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3276)
Hello Ian,
It's an error on my part for not looking at their product list first.
The D16/3 is more or less correct, allowing for it being overscale to fit the chassis, and a couple of correctable errors. The D16/3 all had round top boilers, but with two patterns of footplating. The BHE version has the raised straight topped version applied new to some of the rebuilds. The other version of the real rebuilds had the round topped boiler but retained the original footplate and decorative valance. The pattern of footplate depended upon which sub class of D15 or D16 the loco was, before rebuilding. D16/3 could be rebuilt from D15/1, D15/2, or D16/2.
What I had thought of as a second style of D16/3 offered, but in fact offered as the D15, has a Belpaire firebox. This is correct for D15, but the kit (at least the one I bought) has the straight new style raised footplate of the D16/3. The D15s, and there were two sub classes, all had the original GER style footplate, but some had the decorative valance removed, leaving a 'wavy' footplate.
Summary: the D16/3 kit is accurate, within limits, for some of the class.
In my thinking, the D15 version has errors, and I admit I could be wrong on that.
The History of the 'Clauds' is rather complicated, and I think I've now got it right, but I accept I might gave made mistakes in interpreting the RCTS History of the class.
Note, and it is a very common mistake, the class are Claud, not Claude, Hamilton.
Now try understanding the J67 and J69 classes and the variations....
@martyn (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=447)
Hi, martyn:
Thanks for your very prompt reply, it has removed my confusion. I agree that it can be extremely confusing when a loco class has had many rebuilds and/or many variants.
Ian
Here's the D&M J39 - built many moons ago and sourced, I think, from W & H models.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/122/9432-010522102249.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=122339)
Peter
Checked through the list but could not find the Graham Hughes J6. Atso-Cad also have a Y5 on Shapeways. I think there may be a few more LNER locos from him, but maybe no on general sale, e.g. C1 and C2 Atlantics as well as a D49.
Peter
Quote from: Alcazar on May 01, 2022, 01:40:46 PMChecked through the list but could not find the Graham Hughes J6. Atso-Cad also have a Y5 on Shapeways. I think there may be a few more LNER locos from him, but maybe no on general sale, e.g. C1 and C2 Atlantics as well as a D49.
Peter
The Graham Hughes J6 kit is missing from my list. However, since preparing the list, I noticed that the 2/21 issue of the NGS Journal includes an article about refurbishing "what is believed to be a Graham Hughes J6 kit". I will include the Graham Hughes kit on the next revision.
The Atso-Cad Y5 3D print was omitted from the list as the last example was withdrawn in 1948 and, therefore, outside the timeline of my list (1955-68).
The current Atso-Cad (Steve Da Costa) listing of LNER locos on Shapeways is as follows: K3, N2, C12, Y5, V1, and V3. I know at one time he also made available for sale a Thompson L1 (because I have one) but this model has now been withdrawn from sale.
But you are correct that, at one time, Steve did do special orders / commissions. I went through his loco thread on the NGF (all 65 pages of it!) and determined that he has made 3D prints of at least the following LNER locos (in addition to the models available on Shapeways):
A5, B2 "Sam Fay", C1 Atlantic, D2 (Ivatt), D49 Shire, D49 Hunt, K1, K2, K3/1, N1, O2, O2/1, O2/2, P2 'male chicken' (changed by forum) o' the North, J3, J6, and J52.
However, I am not sure what Steve's current position is re these models. I have sent him a PM asking for the status and will advise if I learn anything of interest.
Ian
Thanks for the update, Ian.
I'd like to get one of Steve's L1s; I have the chassis ready and waiting......
Martyn
I bought one of Steve's / Atso-Cad's L1 prints when it first came out. Unfortunately, I painted it what was described as "dirty loco black" which turned out to be more of a washed out grey. I was never very happy with it as it looked out of place when next to locos in BR black.
Then Steve announced that he was going to issue an upgraded version of the L1 3D print. I decided to buy one but, before it came to market, Steve announced that he was not going to add any more models to his Shapeways shop. Worse, the original L1 print was withdrawn from sale!
I then tried stripping the dirty black paint from my model. However, despite using several different techniques, the paint essentially refused to to be stripped. I then decided my only option was to paint over the model which is what I did.
A photo of my L1 number 67733 is shown below on the left, along with another Atso-Cad 3D print, an LNER V1.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/122/3276-020522181658.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=122399)
The L1 body is mounted on a modified Graham Farish Ivatt 2MT chassis and the V1 is mounted on a modified GF SE&CR N Class chassis.
Ian
I had seen Steve's L1 on the Forum, and found the 2MT chassis on ebay. Then just as funds allowed me to order the body from Shapeways, it disappeared. One that got away...I've seen photos of thebrighton 's L1 from Bill Bedford and I'm mightily impressed.
The V1/V3 is less of a need for me as it disappeared from East Anglia in the very early 50s. Also, and I'm still looking, I haven't found a reasonably priced SR N.
Martyn
I forgot the 1955 bit!
Still, I'd be interested if anyone has bought the Recreation21 G5 from Shapeways. I bought an M7 some time ago as a possible donor for the Worsley Works C13, but the wheel spacing is wrong. If the print quality is OK, I might try it.
Peter
Yes, I have bought the LNER G5 3D print from Shapeways. As far as 3D prints go, I think it is of good quality. See my print below.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/122/3276-020522202055.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=122401)
Simon Dawson (Recreation21 / Rue-D'Etropal) is a talented and prolific 3D print designer. He offers an eclectic range of models and I have purchased several.
One of the "problems" is that Simon appears to make his 3D prints exactly to scale(!). While this may seem a good idea, it means that finding a suitable chassis for a loco can be challenging.
For example, when I purchased the LNER G5 0-4-4 loco print from Recreation21, I was hoping I could fit it to a Dapol (first generation) M7 0-4-4 chassis. Unfortunately, the print would not fit due to the internal width between the loco splashers being too narrow.
The following measurements give an idea of the issue:
- Dapol M7 outside driving wheel to outside driving wheel = 11.9mm
- Dapol M7 outside driving wheel crank pin to outside driving wheel crankpin = 13.3mm
- Recreation21 LNER G5 internal width between driving wheel splashers = 10.4mm
I was originally hoping to use a Dapol second generation M7 chassis (when it is issued) for my LNER G5 but now I am not sure what to do. The 3D print remains on my workbench but I am not sure if I can modify the internal splasher width very easily.
Many of the original white-metal kit manufacturers (and many of the current 3D print producers) started with a chassis in mind and tweaked a few dimensions to ensure that the kit fitted a proprietary chassis.
Unfortunately, I don't believe that Simon Dawson does this.
(I posted the above information on another thread a while back - apologies for any duplication).
However, I have successfully motorized a couple of his 3D prints (with some difficulty). By coincidence, and to show that I am an optimist at heart, just this morning I ordered the LNER A5 and Q6 3D prints from Recreation21. This is partly because I am starting to run out of projects and am looking for something to do.
Ian
I too bought this G5 body print (I need at least 3 G5s for my layout). As you say, unfortunately no allowance has been made for the over-scale width of proprietary chassis (not that I was keen to use the existing Dapol M7 chassis anyway as it's horrendous).
I am awaiting the new M7 chassis which looks light years away from the current version, but I suspect it will not be possible to combine the new chassis with the 3D print. In the meantime I am working (well, he's doing all the design work and I've provided the body and drawings) with a fellow 2mm Association member to see if he can come up with a solution involving a new chassis that can utilise N Gauge wheelsets, but that's on the back burner at present.
The same designer has a J27 and tender available, covering all variants. This again is dead scale but exactly to 2mm (1:152) scale, not the slightly bigger N Gauge scale (1:148). 2mm Association standards are greater than scale on wheel tread width and flange thickness and thus even 2mm wheels will not fit! If the J27 was produced to N Gauge (1:148) perhaps 2mm Association wheels would fit but not N Gauge ones - no use to those of us in N.
I am looking to issue an updated loco/model list in the near future. I have quite a lot of new information.
However, I need help with a couple of questions.
First question.Quote from: martyn on May 02, 2022, 06:53:02 PM
I had seen Steve's L1 on the Forum, and found the 2MT chassis on ebay. Then just as funds allowed me to order the body from Shapeways, it disappeared. One that got away...I've seen photos of thebrighton 's L1 from Bill Bedford and I'm mightily impressed.
Martyn
Hi, @martyn (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=447): Can you clarify your post? I think thebrighton's L1 was an SR L1. Are you saying that Bill Bedford produced a model of an LNER Thompson L1? If so, presumably this was an etched kit? I know that, in addition to Atso-Cad, ABS/Beaver produced a white metal kit for an L1 (and an L3) although the moulds for these models have now gone missing. I searched the NGF for references to the Bill Bedford model but drew a blank. Any further information?
Second Question.
I have a note that says that GEM produced a J39 white metal kit but I do not have any back up that substantiates my note. I know that GEM produced a D11 kit but did they also produce a J39? Is there any evidence to support this or is my note wrong?
Thanks,
Ian
@icairns (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3276)
Sorry again, I must check my sources before posting.
It is a V1 that thebrighton built, not LNER L1, and a beautiful model it is;
http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/Image-Pages/Image_N_LNER-V1.htm?LMCL=aSIrQr&LMCL=CbcxM4 (http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/Image-Pages/Image_N_LNER-V1.htm?LMCL=aSIrQr&LMCL=CbcxM4)
Langley still produce the former GCR L1, later reclassified L3 when the Thompson variety was built, but that's on your list anyway.
I only have vague memories of talk of an ABS/Beaver L1, I've certainly never actually seen one, and don't know if they did in fact get made. If it did, the same memory links it to using a Minitrix 2-6-2 chassis, but I really don't know.
Can't help at all on the GEM J39.
Worsley also lists other locos in N;
http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/N/n_gauge_steam_locomotives.htm (http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/N/n_gauge_steam_locomotives.htm)
The 'Jersey Lily' was the C4 GCR Atlantic.
In 2mm, he lists GNSR class V= LNER class D40, and GNSR class S= LNER lcass D41.
Martyn
Later;
Ref my previous post, ignore links to the Worsley C4, D40, and D41; these are outside the time frame created by Ian.
They may be of use to some-one, though.
Martyn
Correction, some D40 lasted into the chosen period, but D41 all gone.
M
Ian:
There is a J15 on your list by Recreation21.
This is not the ex GER loco but the Irish GSWR class.
Martyn
Hi, @martyn (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=447):
Thank you VERY much for your diligence in replying to this thread. Here is some information that I can provide.
(1) Ian Kirk Models (by this time no longer Westwater & Kirk) produced a plastic kit for an LNER V1/V3. This kit was reviewed in the 3/74 edition of the N gauge Journal (see attached file). I do not believe that this company ever produced a kit for a Thompson L1.
(2) Beaver made the following white-metal kits:
N.459 LNER L1 2-6-4T (to fit a modified Minitrix 2-6-2)
N.460 LNER L3 2-6-4 T (to fit a modified GF 0-6-0PT chassis)
It is interesting that these two 2-6-4T loco kits were designed to fit on different chassis. I have attached a page from the ABS/Beaver price list from 2006-7. I do not recall ever seeing these models. I do know that when Daryle Toney (John Day Models) acquired the Beaver range of kits from the estate of Adrian Swain (ABS Models), he said that the moulds for the L1 and L3 were missing. Were they ever produced? I don't know but I will keep them on my list until further proof emerges, one way or the other.
(3) Thanks for correcting the error regarding the J15. I thought it looked a bit funny for a GER loco but I did not read the small print. I will delete it from my list.
Ian
Interesting Ian, the L1 using a Minitrix Ivatt is not a surprise, I know that Stevie DC used the Farish Ivatt 2MT for the 3D printed one he designed and he will always carefully select the most suitable commercial chassis available.
I have never seen either ABS L1 or L3 over many years of modelling, either in kit form or made up, my personal thinking is that neither made it into production.
Regards
Roy
Ian, congratulations on an excellent piece of research. Well done indeed for finding some of the references.
Mine is relying on memories of forty odd years ago, and is therefore a bit suspect!
I used to have a W+H (?) or W+T (?) catalogue from the late 70s, which listed many now long disappeared items. Unfortunately, I can't now find it, but if I do, I'll update as necessary. The firm was based near Baker St underground station (well, about 20' walk) and as well as their own products, they seemed to act as distributors for many others and also stock a lot of models in the shop.
I'm sure the Hon Gen Sec of the Society of the time told me about the ABS L1, knowing of my ER interest, but again, it could be faulty memory. Another supplier of the time was Precursor models, I think, but if this is correct, it was mainly wheels and gears.
Martyn
Quote from: martyn on May 22, 2022, 10:02:59 AM
<snip>
I used to have a W+H (?) or W+T (?) catalogue from the late 70s, which listed many now long disappeared items. Unfortunately, I can't now find it, but if I do, I'll update as necessary. The firm was based near Baker St underground station (well, about 20' walk) and as well as their own products, they seemed to act as distributors for many others and also stock a lot of models in the shop. </snip>
W&H - Walkers & Holtzapffel. Their catalogue of the lines they manufactured & distributed was an eye-opener to me as a young N gauger in the 1970s. More info here: [url=http://www.binnsroad.co.uk/railways/wandh0/index.html]http://www.binnsroad.co.uk/railways/wandh0/index.html (http://www.binnsroad.co.uk/railways/wandh0/index.html)[/url]
W&T - Wyatt & Tizard. IIRC they were based in the midlands, and produced white metal kits & scenic accessories, including a few N gauge wagon bodies - but no loco kits I don't think.
Gosh, these names take me back!
Richard
(1) GEM LNER J39
After a bit of digging, I came up with the following information. It is believed that the original J39 patterns for this kit may have been made by the late Phil Kerr. These patterns were owned by John Warner (ex-NGS Chairman) when he ran N Gauge Lines. The patterns were then acquired by Terry Henson and were made part of the GEM/Fleetline range. Then they passed to Lychett Manor Models when they acquired the GEM/Fleetline range. Originally, two versions of the J39 (flared tender and flush tender) were available from this source although by 2021 they were no longer listed on the Lychett Manor Models' website. The GEM/Fleetline range has recently been acquired by John Day Models (http://www.johndaymodels.co.uk/ (http://www.johndaymodels.co.uk/)) and this is noted as such in the "What's New" section of the website. Future availability of the GEM/Fleetline loco kits will be advertised on the website.
(2) Beaver Thompson L1 and GCR Class L3 kits
In addition to the 2006/7 ABS/Beaver price list previously posted, I have also obtained a copy of the 2013 price list. Both price lists show the L1 and the L3. I do not think a company would list locos in their price lists spanning 7 years if the locos were not produced. I also contacted Daryle Toney (the current owner of the Beaver kits) and he said that "if Adrian [Swain] catalogued them, they exist".
However, if they really do exist, why is there a lack of other evidence? Hoping in anticipation that a photo or other evidence will turn up.
Ian
P.S. N gauge history is fascinating.
Getting a bit off topic, Fleetline used to be separate from Gem-I think. I've probably got their adverts from the 70s and 80s in my Modellers somewhere in the loft... I know I bought some part kits from the then owner to kitbash otherwise non-avaliable coaching stock.
I can only echo what Roy LS said-I've never seen the L1 and L3 either in the metal or even advertised, and I've been looking for an L1 since about 1976.....but I do feel that the L1 was released, however maybe as only one or very limited issue? Other ABS kits and bits I have seen advertised, and even bought.
Don't really know.
Best wishes on your further research
Martyn
Yes, Fleetline and GEM were definitely separate companies at one time.
Actually, a company called Skytrex Road 'N' Rail developed the following loco kits:
Beyer Garratt 2-6-0 + 0-6-2
LMS Stanier 2-6-4T
LMS Fairburn 2-6-4T
LMS Hughes Crab 2-6-0
BR Standard Class 4 2-6-4T
These kits were eventually incorporated into Fleetline. In the N gauge Society's Handbook, a 2008 listing of kit manufacturers lists Fleetline as Fleetline Road 'N' Rail and there is no mention of Skytrex.
Sometime later, the Fleetline locos and the GEM locos came together under one umbrella and eventually as part of Lychett Manor Models. I just referred to them as GEM/Fleetline for convenience.
Ian
A Skytrex Ltd, based in Loughborough, still exists today and produces military models, OO and O gauge. I think the original company might have gone into administration in the 1990s and this is the third reincarnation so to speak. https://www.therailwayhub.co.uk/278/coming-up-in-the-february-2019-issue-of-rmm-skytrex-the-next-generation/ (https://www.therailwayhub.co.uk/278/coming-up-in-the-february-2019-issue-of-rmm-skytrex-the-next-generation/)
As you say, the N gauge models were passed on to Fleetline Road 'N' Rail, also based in Loughborough: they are all in Fleetline's 1997 catalogue.
I also have an N Brass Locomotives catalogue of RTR/kits from 1998 which includes an "in production" K4 and J11. There is no mention of them in a 2007 leaflet I have, but there are fittings for the K3.
Peter
Quote from: icairns on May 24, 2022, 08:25:27 PM
Then they passed to Lychett Manor Models when they acquired the GEM/Fleetline range.
*Should be Lytchett (not Lychett).
Ian
I haven't checked with N Brass, but I think the K3 fittings are the ones used by Foxhunter in his kit. If not, they are very similar.
Getting off topic a bit again, Phil Kerr seems to have done a lot of mastering of models; as I've already said in this thread, he did the B12 and D15/D16 for BHE.
Martyn
I have a B12 that I bought from a shop in Rickmansworth in 1992. I was on a very quick tour of preserved railways on the way back from a work assignment in Belgium and The Netherlands. I also visited some of the places and sites I had read about in the Metroland and Final Link books. (Aylesbury, Chesham, Great Missenden, the Misbourne Viaduct, (well, under the viaduct while driving on the M25.) I remember coming in to Rickmansworth and driving through a large roundabout and up a hill (Scot's Hill maybe. IIRC). I doubt the shop is still there, but I still have the (unmade) B12 kit.
Mark
Quote from: Alcazar on May 25, 2022, 09:18:11 AMI also have an N Brass Locomotives catalogue of RTR/kits from 1998 which includes an "in production" K4 and J11. There is no mention of them in a 2007 leaflet I have, but there are fittings for the K3.
Peter
I contacted Nick Tilston of N Brass Locos. He confirmed that the K4 and J11 locos were to be limited edition RTR locos (like the N Brass Locos J50). However, neither got past the planning stage.
Ian
First of all, I would like to thank everyone that participated in this thread and provided additional information and/or corrections to my list of ex-LNER locos and N gauge kits.
As promised, I have attached an updated list that incorporates all of the additional information.
There are two versions attached; the first one is a "redline" version that shows all of the changes made and the second version is a clean "blackline" version.
I don't intend to go through all of the new information but here are a few bits that might be of interest.
(1) @Snowwolflair (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3761) has developed a 3D print currently available via Shapeways of an LNER Class U1 (the LNER Beyer-Garrat) and a thread describing the development of this model can be found here:
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=38806.0 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=38806.0)
This model is now included in the list.
(2) My original list did not include the J38 even though this prototype was the last Gresley design in service and the class lasted until 1967. In my defense, my original reference (the 1955 edition of the Observer's Book of Railway Locomotives) did not include it either! It goes directly from J37 to J39.
To me, this is an unbelievable omission but I double checked and even checked the page numbers to make sure that there were no pages missing but the J38 is not in there. Note that my 1964 edition of the same publication DOES include the J38!
Union Mills has produced a RTR J38 so this information has now been included.
(3) Recreation21 has recently produced a 3D print of an LNER P1 2-8-2 loco on Shapeways but this is not included on the list as the class became extinct in 1945 (i.e., before the 1955 starting point of my list). However, I am mentioning it here as I thought that this information might be of interest to some.
(4) I did send a PM to Steve Da Costa (Atso-Cad) to see if he was still doing commissions/special orders of some of his LNER classes. However, I did not receive a reply. Steve used to be a frequent poster on this Forum but I do not remember seeing anything from him in a while. Does anybody know if he is okay?
Thanks again for your interest.
Ian
P.S. Any additions and/or corrections to the latest list gratefully received.
Thank you and congratulations on completing a major reference file, Ian.
It will come in helpful to many people, I'm sure.
Martyn
Quote from: icairns on June 01, 2022, 04:33:42 AM
(4) I did send a PM to Steve Da Costa (Atso-Cad) to see if he was still doing commissions/special orders of some of his LNER classes. However, I did not receive a reply. Steve used to be a frequent poster on this Forum but I do not remember seeing anything from him in a while. Does anybody know if he is okay?
Hi Ian
I have been in touch with Steve fairly recently, he is doing fine, just very busy with a demanding day job these days.
As far as I am aware Steve doesn't do commissions these days, all that is available is those prints still showing on Shapeways. This makes me all the more appreciative of the K3 and V3 Steve did for me a few years back, absolutely lovely one of a kind locos.
Here's the V3, it is a lovely loco and so beautifully weathered.
Roy
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/82/242-031019113738.jpeg)
Good to hear that everything is okay with Steve. I am sure we are all looking forward to his future posts.
Ian
Quote from: martyn on May 24, 2022, 09:07:46 PM
I can only echo what Roy LS said-I've never seen the L1 and L3 either in the metal or even advertised, and I've been looking for an L1 since about 1976.....but I do feel that the L1 was released, however maybe as only one or very limited issue? Other ABS kits and bits I have seen advertised, and even bought.
Don't really know.
Best wishes on your further research
Martyn
While researching another topic in the N Gauge Journals of the 1990s, I came across the attached snippets of information regarding the ABS/Beaver LNER L1 (see attached pdf file). While this does not provide any definitive information, it does confirm that the masters for the L1 did exist.
Further information would be welcomed.
Ian
I think the last extract is more or less what another Society officer told me privately at the time; masters had been made, but the person holding them was not-at that time-going to take them into production, and AFAIK, they never were.
Martyn