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Author Topic: North Derbyshire Raliways - It begins  (Read 1376 times)

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Offline Graham

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Re: North Derbyshire Raliways - It begins
« Reply #45 on: August 22, 2018, 07:28:53 am »
looking good. Must admit I have always thought of a track plan, laid the track then thought about the landscape. this makes it more of a model landscape with a train running through it than a model railway IMO. Similar to how Pendon is modelled.

cheers
Graham

Offline trevis

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Re: North Derbyshire Raliways - It begins
« Reply #46 on: August 22, 2018, 07:45:20 am »
looking good. Must admit I have always thought of a track plan, laid the track then thought about the landscape. this makes it more of a model landscape with a train running through it than a model railway IMO. Similar to how Pendon is modelled.

Yes, kind of. I did have the track layout in my head and it has been executed pretty much exactly as I anticipated. But then I created the landscape before putting down the track, as in real life. The only consideration I gave was to lay flat track beds in the nominal spots before developing the land, otherwise it would have been a nightmare getting the track to lay flat. As it was I have ended up with the track sitting pretty much on the flat bits, with only one or two notable exceptions.

Online Bealman

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Re: North Derbyshire Raliways - It begins
« Reply #47 on: August 22, 2018, 07:59:57 am »
I read somewhere a long time ago (in an American mag, if I recall), that it's best to do the landscape up to the track and then ballast it, so the ballast looks like it's sitting on the landscape, as in the prototype.

That stuck in my head, and I've always done that.
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline trevis

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The long and particularly short of it
« Reply #48 on: August 24, 2018, 02:22:59 pm »
OK, I am stumped and need the knowledge of those with more experience than I.

I have setup the siding out of the yards, but it is creating a short and I can't see the problem, which no doubt is staring me in the face.



So, as you can see the entry to the yards is at Point A. This works as expected, open and closed all is good (including all yards tracks and points working). The siding track is isolated at points C & D. I don't think this is necessary, but it was an easy option. The idea to hook the isolated section to the auto-reverser. More on this in a moment. There is an exit from the siding back into the same mainline track at point B.

If I turn the points at B to allow traffic in and out of the siding it shorts the track. This is regardless of whether the isolated section is hooked up to the reverser or simply left disconnected from any power.

I know the isolation is working, because 1, I can see clear gaps in the track at all four places, but more importantly 2, points A work perfectly.

This suggests to me that the short occurs due to the mainline section, caused by some crossover caused when points B are turned to the siding.

Apart from points B all other sections are working as expected open or closed, it is only when I flip points B that the short happens. However, if I turn open points A to the siding first and then open points B to the siding, no short occurs!

Can anyone see the logic in why this occurs, and more importantly how to avoid it.

Aagh!
TC

« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 02:37:40 pm by trevis »

Offline Innovationgame

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Re: North Derbyshire Raliways - It begins
« Reply #49 on: August 24, 2018, 02:40:25 pm »
What power feed do you have on the section between B and C?  It sounds as though your problem is in that area.  Do you have a multimeter?
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Laurence
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Offline trevis

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Re: North Derbyshire Raliways - It begins
« Reply #50 on: August 24, 2018, 03:33:24 pm »
What power feed do you have on the section between B and C?  It sounds as though your problem is in that area.  Do you have a multimeter?

There's no power feed between B & C, it is taking its power from whichever line the points are connected to, therefore presumably unpowered if the points are closed to the siding, but powered from the mainline if the siding is open.

Good idea about the multimeter. I shall drag it out and see which way the needle flips at all relevant spots...

CHeers
TC

Offline Innovationgame

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Re: North Derbyshire Raliways - It begins
« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2018, 04:16:36 pm »
If there's really no feed to the siding and both rails are genuinely isolated at C, then the fault must be in the point.  But check first with your multimeter.  If you are using electofrog points, check your frog dropper.  Could it be permanently connected to the left hand stock rail (as viewed on your photo)?
With kind regards
Laurence
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Offline Caz

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Re: North Derbyshire Raliways - It begins
« Reply #52 on: August 24, 2018, 06:59:46 pm »
Can you confirm you've got the Y junction top left fully isolated (it acts like a reversing loop) as if not that could be feeding back down the main line to the sidings.

Offline trevis

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Re: North Derbyshire Raliways - It begins
« Reply #53 on: August 25, 2018, 12:21:14 am »
Can you confirm you've got the Y junction top left fully isolated (it acts like a reversing loop) as if not that could be feeding back down the main line to the sidings.

I will go back and check the wye, but it seems to be working fine. The straight along the top isle it is isolated and connected to my auto reversing board. All the points and tracks in the wye work as expected and trains run on all legs fine.

Cheers
TC

Offline trevis

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Re: North Derbyshire Raliways - It begins
« Reply #54 on: August 25, 2018, 07:05:05 am »
..., then the fault must be in the point.  But check first with your multimeter. ...

Bingo.  Dodgy points. All the voltages were correct,  so I whipped it out and replaced. All good.

Thanks
TC

Online daveg

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Re: North Derbyshire Raliways - It begins
« Reply #55 on: August 25, 2018, 07:16:09 am »
Good to hear, TC.

Almost every electrical gremlin I've had/have was/is hidden itself around a point! Always a big sigh of relief when you find the little  :censored:!

Dave G

Offline trevis

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Getting to the point
« Reply #56 on: August 26, 2018, 10:44:27 am »
Well, it's been an eventful weekend. Even though the weather has been absolutely stupendous and I got out on both bicycle and motorcycle, I still found the time to progress the NDR. Firstly a little bit of movement. And yes, it's still running counter to track rules, but she's in testing. And before anyone asks, the little goods van is to prevent some weird derailing of the first carriage that keeps occurring. Possible bogey issue.  :D



The main goal this weekend was to get at least one of my new DCC Concepts SS Point motors up and running. And as of 4pm Sunday managed to hit my target. Not that it was particularly difficult, just me procrastinating every time I start something new where I could possibly stuff things up when they are already working. Courage up, it began.

Sadly Richard has moved from WA, where I could visit the shop and figure everything out easily, to Carlisle in the UK, where I cannot take the same approach... Ordered them from Hattons and waited. The twelve pack of points motors arrived nice and neat. Six controllers, twelve motors and a stack of bits and bobs to help hook it all up - cables, screws, tie bars, etc.



The instructions likewise come on a simple to follow, yet very detailed fold out card. The boards are capable of much more than just operating the points, so most of the instructions can be ignored until a later date.

First job is to position the motor adjacent to the points tie bar, after fitting the appropriate armature for the job. The pack comes with a lot of different ones to ensure good fit.



Once in place you can put the back screws in to get it reasonably tight for testing.

Drop the connector through to the controller which I have put beneath the layout. The little plugs on the end of the motor wire are a bit bigger than I would like, meaning a bigger than normal hole is required compared to droppers. This gets plugged into the controller, from where you can play with a little screw to adjust the pull distance of the motor. You can connect two distinct DCC motors to each controller, but if you have synchronised points such as a crossover they can each share an address and move simultaneously on activation.



Connecting it to my ECOS was pretty simple. There is a switch on the controller board that puts it in "Set" mode which allows the controller to see and assign it. I have gone through and pre-added all my points to the ECOS in advance.

When I first tried to operate it I didn't have much luck, just not pushing the blades into place. The instructions suggest you remove the spring in the points. I would say this is mandatory as the motor simply doesn't have the oomph to move it otherwise. Once I killed the spring, it worked smoothly. Probably more realistic anyway.

It's quite a noisy little beast if you are operating points without any ambient noise like a train trundling along. But the chance of you sitting flicking points around in silence is not that high, so I don't think it's a biggy.

And, the proof is in the pudding (screws yet to be aligned and tightened). Perhaps not that exciting, but another achievement along the way. Now another eleven to fit, although I am going to have to buy some extension cables. The pack comes with four or five, but the flylead is only really long enough to get through from my layout to the underside of the board, not leaving much to get to the controller, especially when you are hooking up two points to one controller. You will get lucky maybe one out of two times unless you are doing a yard with lots of them at close quarters.


Online daveg

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Re: North Derbyshire Raliways - It begins
« Reply #57 on: August 26, 2018, 11:10:26 am »
The electronics are beyond my ken but the trackwork through the scenery looks great.

Look forward to the next episode.

Dave G

Online Bealman

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Re: North Derbyshire Raliways - It begins
« Reply #58 on: August 26, 2018, 11:33:52 am »
The electronics aren't so much beyond my ken, but like Dave, I'm a dc dinosaur.

Great videos. Can't wait to see them running on the correct lines, though!  ;) :beers:
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline Supertommymooney

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Re: North Derbyshire Raliways - It begins
« Reply #59 on: September 08, 2018, 04:12:28 pm »
Hi Trevis

Looks like a great layout coming on.

Can I ask a quick question about your baseboard?

I am looking to get plywood for a new setup (first go) and looking at what my wood merchant stocks he has about 4 types of plywood, including soft pine plywood, brazilian hardwood ply, and marine plywood. Most in 9mm or 12mm, but the marine in 12mm only.

Can I ask why you chose the marine and what it's like to drill through and cut?

I am looking at a basic 160cm x 90cm rectangle then some edges sticking up for back and side board to landscape up to.

(anyone else a wood expert then all help welcome!)

Thanks

 

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