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Author Topic: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)  (Read 8142 times)

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Offline Leon

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2018, 03:12:10 am »
Old postcards may be the best way to insure period accuracy.















I've learned a couple of things from these postcards, already: the fact that Westbury had heavy industry and the location of the signal box. There is likely to be more hidden detail that will come in handy, later.

Leon
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 03:22:27 am by Leon, Reason: Addition of a comment. »

Online Dorsetmike

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2018, 10:22:51 am »
Rule 1 says "Its your railway, run whatever pleases you" so if you want to run Flying Scotsman through your Westbury - do so
Cheers MIKE
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Offline Leon

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2018, 04:11:03 pm »
Thanks, Mike! I can live by Rule #1, but I'll always try to represent the reality of the period I'm modeling. There is a place for totally imaginative layouts, however, with the flexiblity for running anything consistent with the environment created. I will run my Caledonian locomotive on my GWR layout. I'm not sure if there was a football team in Southwest England who would have played a Scottish team, but that will be my excuse for invoking Rule #1.

Leon

Offline kelstonlad

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2018, 04:30:49 pm »
Football (soccer) just doesn't seem to work in the south west of England. Now, if you had a bunch of chaps from a Scottish rugby team, a tour to the South West would be perfect. (You'd need to litter the platforms with a lot of empty cans, and other unpleasant items).

Offline port perran

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2018, 04:46:06 pm »
Hi Leon.
To clarify. In your chosen period locos generally didnít run from one region to another although trains did.
Hence, for example, a train running eg Bristol to Portsmouth would run with a WR loco from Bristol to Salisbury and an SR loco Salisbury to Portsmouth. Although occasionally an SR loco would run right through for route familiarisation purposes.
Note. WR trains ran with a WR loco to Weymouth.
The reason for turntables at all medium and large loco depots was to turn the engine.
Imagine a passenger train running Paddington to Weymouth. There would normally be an engine change at Westbury. Steam engines need servicing (inc adding water and coal) regularly. So engine 1 would come off the train to be replaced with engine 2.
Later in the day engine 2 (now turned and setviced at Weymouth) would work the train back to West ury where engine 1 (now serviced and turned) would take the train on to Paddington.
As for Westbury depot. In terms of size it would be classed as medium. It had an allocation of 88 engines in 1948. Westbury was a VERY busy rail centre.
The shed had four tracks under cover (housing some 12 tender locos adequately) with considerable outside storage sidings. There was a small workshop (for medium repairs) and a coaling track.
An additional track led to the turntable where engines were turned.
Acceess to the shed itself was by means of a headshunt off the main Salisbury line and was under the control of Westbury South signal box.
Hope this all helps.
I can only emphasise again how busy I remember the area being in my youth in the early 60s.  A couple of hours spotting including a visit to the loco shed could very easily yield 100 locos seen.
Martin
It's you railway so build it as you want and run whatever you like. The only rule is - ENJOY :
My Layouts -
Port Perran:- Trepol Bay:-

Offline ten0G

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #50 on: June 25, 2018, 10:17:07 pm »
Can you explain "banking duties"

Leon,

These late 1950's episodes of Railway Roundabout may give you some idea of what was involved in banking duties, mostly self-explanatory I hope.  Some wonderful shots of GWR locos working on an ex-LMS main line. 





Apologies for the delay but it's taken some time to find these, I thought I had them in my history.  I hope I have the links right. 

There are a number of episodes dealing with Western Region, but so far I've not found any which feature Westbury. 

Offline Leon

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2018, 12:01:11 am »
A couple of hours spotting including a visit to the loco shed could very easily yield 100 locos seen.
Martin

Thanks for that excellent explanation, Martin. In my two hours at Westbury, I probably saw a dozen locos - half of them shunting mineral wagons. By todays standard, I guess that's still pretty busy. There's no way I can capture in my layout the full scope of this junction. I have altered the plan for the location and size of the engine shed, but mostly symbolic. The striking thing, to me, is just how many changes there have been over the years to the workings at Westbury. BTW, my location of the goods station is highly speculative. I felt that the satellite map showed signes of a siding where some NetRail buildings are located, today, and it looks like it would have been a logical place for a goods station.

Leon

Offline Leon

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2018, 12:03:12 am »
Football (soccer) just doesn't seem to work in the south west of England. Now, if you had a bunch of chaps from a Scottish rugby team, a tour to the South West would be perfect. (You'd need to litter the platforms with a lot of empty cans, and other unpleasant items).

Rugby will work! :) Perhaps a team from the Borders.

Leon

Offline kelstonlad

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #53 on: June 26, 2018, 12:50:22 am »
BTW, my location of the goods station is highly speculative.


Did you ever discover the Old ordnance survey maps? - http://maps.nls.uk/

The 25 inch maps have enormous detail, although earlier than your period. But at least it will anchor some stuff for you. (And, of course, if you're like me, it will give you an excuse to explore stuff for hours). The later maps were smaller scale, with the 1937-61 series clearly showing the engine sheds and other buildings that aren't labelled.

Offline Leon

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #54 on: June 26, 2018, 04:20:35 pm »

Did you ever discover the Old ordnance survey maps? - http://maps.nls.uk/

The 25 inch maps have enormous detail, although earlier than your period. But at least it will anchor some stuff for you. (And, of course, if you're like me, it will give you an excuse to explore stuff for hours). The later maps were smaller scale, with the 1937-61 series clearly showing the engine sheds and other buildings that aren't labelled.


kelstonlad, thanks for reminding me! I've had a look, and I am like you, I guess. I love studying maps. I've always enjoyed them, and studied geography at college.

Leon

Offline port perran

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #55 on: June 26, 2018, 04:40:59 pm »
Hi Leon.
Westbury had fairly extensive goods sidings mainly located at the South end of the station between he main Salisbury line and the loco shed.
As Westbury was a VERY important junction for effectively 5 direction ie
London and northwards
Bristol and South Wales (via Trowbridge)
Salisbury and the South East
Weymouth
The Far South West (vis Taunton and Exeter).
Imagine a freight train arriving from, say, London containing wagons for eg Weymouth, Salisbury and Taunton. That train would terminate at Westbury and its wagons added to appropriate trains for their final destinations.
Hence, fairly extensive shunting and marshalling movements took place.
Westbury itself was a small town and so its own goods handling facilities were limited. There was a small goods shed and yard just to the South of the station.
Hence, the goods sidings were extensive but the goods shed was small.
Hope that makes some sense.

Martin
It's you railway so build it as you want and run whatever you like. The only rule is - ENJOY :
My Layouts -
Port Perran:- Trepol Bay:-

Offline Leon

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #56 on: June 26, 2018, 04:50:07 pm »
Martin has given me information that led to some minor changes in my layout; i.e. location of engine shed and the size of my ponds (lakes). I've also decided to change the Salisbury down line to single track through Dilton Marsh to simplify the layout (as I did the up line to Trowbridge). The result is posted below. One bit of knowledge I think I'll be unable to incorporate - the presence of a turntable near the engine shed. I don't see a way to make room for it. And, given the many changes to the junction over the years, I wonder if the turntable that Martin remembers was built AFTER nationaization. My impression is that Southern gave off to a GWR locomotive at Salisbury, so I'd expect that the turntable was there in Grouping times. Perhaps Martin can further enlighten us, though it's probably not worth any further research. Certainly not for me, for the reason cited above (no layout room).

Leon


Offline Leon

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #57 on: June 26, 2018, 04:53:59 pm »
Hi Leon.
Westbury had fairly extensive goods sidings mainly located at the South end of the station between he main Salisbury line and the loco shed.
As Westbury was a VERY important junction for effectively 5 direction ie
London and northwards
Bristol and South Wales (via Trowbridge)
Salisbury and the South East
Weymouth
The Far South West (vis Taunton and Exeter).
Imagine a freight train arriving from, say, London containing wagons for eg Weymouth, Salisbury and Taunton. That train would terminate at Westbury and its wagons added to appropriate trains for their final destinations.
Hence, fairly extensive shunting and marshalling movements took place.
Westbury itself was a small town and so its own goods handling facilities were limited. There was a small goods shed and yard just to the South of the station.
Hence, the goods sidings were extensive but the goods shed was small.
Hope that makes some sense.

Martin

Martin, that IS what I've suspected, but I still think there was something east of the station - and it makes sense to me that it would have been off the goods line (dedicated, today, and probably was then) that runs between the station and platform 1. I'm going to leave it that way on my layout (citing Rule #1  :D). If you've seen my post of a few minutes ago, maybe you'll want to comment (re: turntable). Your last post suggests clearly that you feel locos were dropped and turned here. You will know from personal observation, but that was a decade and more after my period. Whatever, I don't have room for a turntable, so I'll just have to ignore those trains, I suppose.

Leon

Offline port perran

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #58 on: June 26, 2018, 05:24:01 pm »
I think your new plan looks good. Itís a fair representation of Westbury in the space you have available.
I see that you have added Frogmore pond (Iíve spent more hours fishing there than I care to remember).
The turntable would certainly have been in place in your era Leon but I can see that it would be difficult to accommodate.
In the space that you have available, I think it has th be a representation of Westbury rather than an exact copy.
Looks good.
It's you railway so build it as you want and run whatever you like. The only rule is - ENJOY :
My Layouts -
Port Perran:- Trepol Bay:-

Offline Leon

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #59 on: June 26, 2018, 05:38:50 pm »
I can confirm, after consulting an online Ordnance Survey map (1937-1961 compilaton) that there WAS a siding off the goods line in the Westbury Station! It ran to an area of three buildings about a hundred yards NE of the station, and appears to continue under the road to another group of buildings (both groups of buildings are, today, property of NetworkRail). An earlier map (about 1905) shows no ponds (lakes). Therefore, mining ceased between c. 1905 and 1961 after which the quarries were flooded. Since Martin fished there at the end of that period, mining had been discontinued some years before. The engine shed was two rails. I'm still studying maps.

Leon

 

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