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Author Topic: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)  (Read 8143 times)

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Offline Leon

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2018, 07:31:44 pm »
I found an image of a frame for my carpenter to use as a guide. My layout will be 8' x 10'. What do you suggest for sizing the frame lumber? In the picture, it looks like 1" x 6".

Leon

« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 07:33:20 pm by Leon »

Offline kirky

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2018, 07:51:28 pm »
Ive used Sundeala in the past. Its awful stuff. One drop of water and it expands. It warps like nobodies business. I guess peco recomend it because its easy to push track pins into.
I think your insulation board ontop of ply will certainly work. A member of our club built his layout using the thick two inch board which is foil backed with only an outside fram, no top at all. It worked for him and its a OO model, so I would imagine in N its fine. Its got the advantage of being able to bury things like wire in tube point operating systems. The disadvantage would be it'll be difficult to use underboard components like peco point motors - but you could surface mount them.
Cheers
Kirky
« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 07:55:51 pm by kirky »
Northallerton is in the August 2018 edition of Raiway Modeller

and in real life at the Normanton and Pontefract exhibition. New College, Park Lane, Pontefract. 26/27th January 2019



Layout: Northallerton: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=1671.msg16930#msg16930

www.northallertonngauge.co.uk

Cleveland Model Railway club website: www.clevelandmrc.club

Offline kirky

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2018, 07:55:14 pm »
In response to your lumber sizes. 4 inches deep would be more than adequate. If you are not using components under the board, probably 2x1 would be fine. I guess this is a stay at home layout where weight isnt an issue?
cheers
kirky
Northallerton is in the August 2018 edition of Raiway Modeller

and in real life at the Normanton and Pontefract exhibition. New College, Park Lane, Pontefract. 26/27th January 2019



Layout: Northallerton: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=1671.msg16930#msg16930

www.northallertonngauge.co.uk

Cleveland Model Railway club website: www.clevelandmrc.club

Offline Leon

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2018, 09:23:44 pm »
In response to your lumber sizes. 4 inches deep would be more than adequate. If you are not using components under the board, probably 2x1 would be fine. I guess this is a stay at home layout where weight isnt an issue?
cheers
kirky

Yes, this layout will never be moved. I'll be running wire from my points underneath, but not much more. Weight is not a serious issue, but I may be moving the board around within the room where it's located and would like for it to be as light as possible.  I'd prefer 2x1, but saw some suggestions that boards wider than 2' might need something larger than 2x1. I'm not sure why. Thanks for the advice. I'm really flying blind when it comes to technical stuff and need all the guidance I can get.

Leon

Offline Innovationgame

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2018, 09:24:27 pm »
I read a few recommendations for insulation board, including the following - I certainly would recommend insulation board. I still have 2-3 boards from circa 1980s that have never warped and will be used later this year, I hope.
I suspect the insulation board in question was fibre board (softboard) that used to be standard in the sixties and right up until the eighties.
With kind regards
Laurence
My personal website is a bit of a mish mash
www.innovationgame.com

Offline Leon

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2018, 09:44:02 pm »
I suspect the insulation board in question was fibre board (softboard) that used to be standard in the sixties and right up until the eighties.

Laurence, I'm looking at Dow extruded polystyrene foam.

Leon

Offline kirky

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2018, 09:58:00 pm »
The reason I suggested 2x1 is because youve already said you are using poplar. This is usually a very good timber, far less prone to warping than say something like spruce which is usually grown quickly and is less dense. Secondly the construction method suggested in the picture would indicate a box type contruction which is very strong. I dont think you gain much by going bigger especially as youre getting it built by a professional.
cheers

Kirky
« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 10:01:29 pm by kirky »
Northallerton is in the August 2018 edition of Raiway Modeller

and in real life at the Normanton and Pontefract exhibition. New College, Park Lane, Pontefract. 26/27th January 2019



Layout: Northallerton: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=1671.msg16930#msg16930

www.northallertonngauge.co.uk

Cleveland Model Railway club website: www.clevelandmrc.club

Offline Leon

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2018, 05:36:38 pm »
Including two 56xx 0-6-2tanks used for banking duties on Upton ascudamore bank.
We also saw SR and Standard classes of course particularly from Salisbury tnough 92xxx and WD freight locos were rarer. We saw some ex LMS locos fairly often, especially  lack 5s and 8Fs and on at least 2 occassions ex LNER BIs having worked down from Banbury on freights,
The shed was easy to bunk and always produced at least 40 numbers. In later days, we had the sad sight of withdrawn locos from WR and SR en route to the South Wales scrapyards.
Martin

Martin,

Can you explain "banking duties" and Upton ascudamore bank? What is meant by Standard classes in the context of SR? Also, is WR for Western Region? And, what is WD?

In an earlier post, you mentioned a turntable at Westbury. What can you tell me about Westbury as a terminus? I've seen no other reference to trains terminating in Westbury.

I've assumed from my reading that SR had a regular service through Westbury. Can you provide me with specifics? I noticed when I was at Trowbridge a Southwest Railroad train running through, so I presume that could be a legacy of an older SR service.

What would LMS and LNER trains have been common through Westbury before natualization? Was it common for one region to use another region's rail to move goods and minerals with their own locomotives? Can you elaborate?

The Southern Handbook was the first delivered of my recent purchases, so I'm reading it first. I have the LMS book, and the other two should be here, soon. I'll be reading them all, but the author assumes the reader knows more than I do! Your answers to my questions will be greatly appreciated. Forgive the naivety of some of them; i.e. Standard classes. I've seen that term before, but the reference always assumes the reader knows what it means!

Best regards,
Leon

Online Dorsetmike

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2018, 06:18:01 pm »
Banking duties: assistance, (usually from the rear) for trains on gradients/banks, the assisting loco usually referred to as a banker would "buffer up" to the rear of the train, but not coupling to it, usually done at a station stop where the train engine may have difficulty starting a heavy train against the gradient;
typical examples of this would be the 1:37 up from Exeter St Davids to Exeter Central. or leaving Bath green park for the Somerset & Dorset line; on reaching the top of the bank the banker would without the train having to stop, the banker would then cross over to the other track to return to the bottom of the bank for the next train to require its services.

Standard classes were built by British rail and could be allocated to any region: WD is the War Department which had 3 classes of freight locos, (2-8-0, 2-10-0 and 0-6-0 saddle tank) built for the government by various companies, and could be used anywhere in UK or overseas, particularly Europe after the Normandy landings. (Similar USA equivalent would be the Transport Corps locos)

The SR and GWR ran a service from Portsmouth to Cardiff via Salisbury where locos would  usually be changed, in BR days the same service was run by Southern and Western regions, now run by South West trains, but I think now is more often Portsmouth to Bristol.

Locos from other companies would occasionally run on other companies tracks, usually an Excursion or in wartime "anything goes", Ambulance trains, Troop trains, or sometimes on loan to cover a shortage due to heavier traffic or damage by enemy action. Some cross country routes over more than one companies lines would often change locosat a convenient point rather than at the company boundary, example trains from the south coast to the midlands or north would change locos at Oxford or Banbury.

After nationalisation all locos belonged to British Rail so they could send them wherever they wanted.
Cheers MIKE
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Offline Innovationgame

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2018, 06:46:43 pm »
A brilliant exposition, Mike.  :beers:
With kind regards
Laurence
My personal website is a bit of a mish mash
www.innovationgame.com

Offline port perran

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2018, 07:05:48 pm »
Hi Leon.
Wow, lots of questions and you are correct, it is often easy to assume either prior knowledge or understanding.
Anyway, to take you questions one at a time.
It should be Upton Scudamore bank which is a steepish incline past the village of the same name. Steam locomotives often struggled for adhesion on steep banks (especially with heavy trains). A banking engine (or sometimes 2 or 3) were added at the end of the train to give it a shove up the bank. The  banking locos would drop off at the top of the bank and return to their stabling point or home depot.
Standard Classes. At Nationalisation of Britains railways in 1948, British Railways (BR) inherited a fleet of locomotives from the main constituent companies. Under the modernisation plan a fleet of new steam locomotives was suggested based on the best principles of existing locos. These new locomotives were used across the entire network and as they were not “owned” by any of the constituent companies they became Standard Classes.
WR does stand for Western Region (formerly GWR) as , of course, SR stands for Southern.
WD is War Department. Indeed BR inherited some 750 locomotives (largely 2-8-0 and 2-10-0 types) from the WD after World War 2.
Westbury isn’t a terminus but, especially in steam days, many trains changed locomotive at Westbury. Steam locos generally run smokebox first and so need to be able to be turned in order to work back to where they came from. Therefore, most steam loco depots (and the one at Westbury was quite large and busy) were equipped with a turntable on which the loco would be placed to be turned. The turntable at Westbury was at the back of the loco depot.
In steam days, SR trains did indeed run into Westbury. The principle route was to Salisbury and on to Portsmouth or Southampton. Trains ran to eg Portsmouth from Bristol or South Wales. Many such trains changed from an SR loco to a WR loco at Salisbury but there was a daily service which saw SR locos and crews running right on to Bristol for crew route knowledge purposes.
As far as I know LNER and LMS locos were rare at Westbury prior to Nationalisation although, of course, actual trains would run from region to region. Generally a train booked to run from one region to another would change engines close to regional boundaries but occasionally, in the case of an engine failure for example, foreign locos would run from one region to another.
I hope I’ve answered adequately and please do ask again for more information.
Others may offer more detail or elaborate which would be helpful and I’ll let someone else answer re the Southwest Trains unit at Trowbridge.

Cheers
Martin

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Offline Leon

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2018, 07:35:32 pm »
My thanks to Mike and Martin for their answers to my questions.

Martin, I've watched a video shot within the last two decades (can't remember the exact time) that was done from Westbury Platform 3. It showed clearly a loco in the shed at the top of the north sidings. That track (looking at satellite images) seems to have been removed. If the turntable was sited beyond the engine shed it may have been on land now occupied by NetworkRail Regional Track Materials Recyling Center. Do you know when it was removed? My layout is intended to focus on 1938-1942. Should I have a turntable?

Leon

Offline port perran

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2018, 07:46:02 pm »
My thanks to Mike and Martin for their answers to my questions.

Martin, I've watched a video shot within the last two decades (can't remember the exact time) that was done from Westbury Platform 3. It showed clearly a loco in the shed at the top of the north sidings. That track (looking at satellite images) seems to have been removed. If the turntable was sited beyond the engine shed it may have been on land now occupied by NetworkRail Regional Track Materials Recyling Center. Do you know when it was removed? My layout is intended to focus on 1938-1942. Should I have a turntable?

Leon
Hi
That depot that you are referring to is the diesel stabling point (installed in 1962 I think).the steam shed was on the other side of the main line at the South end of the station. It was a much bigger concern than the diesel stabling point.
The steam shed was accessed by a connection to the main line some quarter of a mile beyond the station and was accessed by foot via a cinder track which started opposite the main station entrance.
The steam depot was demolished completely in the late 60s and no trace remains  today.
Martin
It's you railway so build it as you want and run whatever you like. The only rule is - ENJOY :
My Layouts -
Port Perran:- Trepol Bay:-

Offline port perran

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2018, 08:09:21 pm »
Leon
This may help as it shows where the steam loco depot used to be.
http://www.railuk.info/steam/getshed.php?item=82D

Hope it makes some sense.
The trackwork around the area has been much simplified since the 60s but it gives an idea as to where the shed was.

Martin
It's you railway so build it as you want and run whatever you like. The only rule is - ENJOY :
My Layouts -
Port Perran:- Trepol Bay:-

Offline Leon

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Re: Westbury Junction 1938-42 (Perceived)
« Reply #44 on: June 24, 2018, 11:36:41 pm »
The steam depot was demolished completely in the late 60s and no trace remains  today.
Martin

Martin, actually there MAY be a trace remaining. Before I wrote to you, I had a close look at Google Earth and in the area you referred to there is a faint circle. So, though you didn't say so, I really need to add a turntable if I want to be more prototypical? The diesel "stabling point" was single track. From what you've said, the steam shed must have been multi track. Would the turntable have been multi track? I'd sure like to have a better understanding of the engine turning at Westbury. To justify the cost of a turntable, there must have been a significant number of locomotives turned at Westbury. If that was the case, my plan to include an autocoach between Dilton Marsh and Trowbridge (on my layout) might need to be re-visited. I'm wondering if Southern ran a frequent service between Southampton and Bristol (Gloucester), handing over to a GWR locomotive at Westbury and turning their own? Where might I find timetables for Westbury for that period? BTW, in the context of protocol, what do modellers mean by Rule #1?

Leon



 

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