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Author Topic: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale  (Read 1884 times)

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Offline Safety Engineer

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #45 on: May 29, 2018, 02:43:09 pm »
Leon,

Might want to look at the Ordinance Survey Map (OS) of your chosen location. Shows roads and railways either on embankments or cuttings as well as other features like buildings, water courses etc, ground elevations are shown via contour lines, scale is 1:50000 with one kilometre squares. As I hav'nt bought one for ages guess they are about £8 or £9 a sheet. Think they do limited editions of earlier versions as I considered buying a copy of the original 1850 sheet for my area.

Martin

Martin

Offline Leon

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #46 on: May 29, 2018, 03:09:40 pm »
I'm posting an image of my track plan after revisions to straighten sidings. It was necessary to replace Kato #6 points with # 4 points, about which I still have reservations. I was tempted to alter the Dilton Marsh line, for I expect to make other changes before I'm finished - and, I'll be surprised if there aren't changes after I start laying track. There are already two miss-alignments of track that have to be fixed - someway. Nevertheless, I retain Dilton Marsh to represent the direction of that line, as Trowbridge is primarily to show the other direction of the line. I guess I'm an ultra-realist - even if I do have to distort direction and scale of distance.

I think I've probably posted enough until I'm back home and working on a base board (not yet constructed). Thanks to everyone who has commented

Leon


Offline rogerdB

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #47 on: May 29, 2018, 03:12:17 pm »
Leon – Before you go - I’ve been pondering about how I would build your layout. I took a look at Google maps and, boy, are you being ambitious trying to get that into 8 feet. I reckon you’d need 28 feet to do it justice! My approach would be to concentrate on Westbury and eliminate everything else. I would build a hidden fiddle yard at the back which feeds the station. The original is a junction of two double track lines at each end but the crossings between and across these tracks can be imagined generally to be off-stage, in the fiddle yard.  This is the plan I came up with. I don’t have any track planning software, so this is a cut-and-paste job.



The two scissors crossovers take up a lot of space – a quarter of the width of the layout between them. So eliminate the right hand one. I’ve used the gained space to lengthen the platforms but I would actually use some of it to make way for larger radius curves at the right hand end of the layout – much needed!

Because the line to Dilton Marsh is now in the fiddle yard there’s enough room to add a headshunt for the sidings. I’ve shown it straight, but it could curve round with the main running lines. I don’t know if the geometry of Kato track permits it, but I’d want to angle the sidings so that they’re not parallel with the edge of the baseboard. And they now have enough space to be made longer.

Hiding the entrance to the fiddle yard on the right end would be fairly easy – use the bridge over the B3097 as a scenic break. The left end is trickier, though, but you’ve got plenty of space in which to build a convincing environment for your station.

OK, you haven’t got representations of other places where your trains might be going, but imagination is a wonderful thing!

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #48 on: May 29, 2018, 03:26:59 pm »
@rogerdB I tend to agree with Roger but would make the following observations:-

(a) the platforms are penned in by track. Did Westbury have subway access?
(b) UK practice is for the outer oval to run clockwise and be considered the 'Up' line. The sidings at the bottom of the plan would really not require a headshunt as all trains would be reversed in (as per prototype). It could be kept for loco storage, though.
(c) the lower platform loop could be run off a RH point as the last part of the RH curve, thus lengthening and improving the running as it gets rid of the reverse curve.

Just my thoughts

Offline The Q

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #49 on: May 29, 2018, 05:05:36 pm »
Leon,

Might want to look at the Ordinance Survey Map (OS) of your chosen location. Shows roads and railways either on embankments or cuttings as well as other features like buildings, water courses etc, ground elevations are shown via contour lines, scale is 1:50000 with one kilometre squares. As I hav'nt bought one for ages guess they are about £8 or £9 a sheet. Think they do limited editions of earlier versions as I considered buying a copy of the original 1850 sheet for my area.
.

Martin

Martin


The national library of Scotland has a huge array of on line maps dating from early 1800s to the present day for free!!!

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/find/#zoom=5&lat=55.1310&lon=-3.9561&layers=102&b=1&point=0,0

Offline rogerdB

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #50 on: May 29, 2018, 05:09:03 pm »
@rogerdB I tend to agree with Roger but would make the following observations:-

(a) the platforms are penned in by track. Did Westbury have subway access?
(b) UK practice is for the outer oval to run clockwise and be considered the 'Up' line. The sidings at the bottom of the plan would really not require a headshunt as all trains would be reversed in (as per prototype). It could be kept for loco storage, though.
(c) the lower platform loop could be run off a RH point as the last part of the RH curve, thus lengthening and improving the running as it gets rid of the reverse curve.

Just my thoughts

Thanks Mick.
(a) Must have - satellite view shows no sign of a footbridge but there is something that might be the cover of an underpass, though only on one platform. I expect someone with local knowledge will tell us.
(b) Agree, but the prototype has a long headshunt.
(c) Agree again. I was going to add that to the drawing but it would have meant changing those sharp curves, too. Getting lazy in my old age!

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #51 on: May 29, 2018, 05:39:46 pm »
Westbury is “blessed” with subway access to all platforms..
It's you railway so build it as you want and run whatever you like. The only rule is - ENJOY :
My Layouts -
Port Perran:- Trepol Bay:-

Offline njee20

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #52 on: May 29, 2018, 06:10:21 pm »
All I meant re: the coal yard is that you can only access it by reversing off the Dilton Halt branch. If you get rid of that then you need alternative access, the obvious way is to make that ‘spur’ of the scissor crossing lead straight into the yard.

I can’t comment on the prototype and fidelity thereof, not my era at all!

Offline Jerry Howlett

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #53 on: May 29, 2018, 06:34:03 pm »
@rogerdB I tend to agree with Roger but would make the following observations:-

(a) the platforms are penned in by track. Did Westbury have subway access?
(b) UK practice is for the outer oval to run clockwise and be considered the 'Up' line. The sidings at the bottom of the plan would really not require a headshunt as all trains would be reversed in (as per prototype). It could be kept for loco storage, though.
(c) the lower platform loop could be run off a RH point as the last part of the RH curve, thus lengthening and improving the running as it gets rid of the reverse curve.

Just my thoughts

Thanks Mick.
(a) Must have - satellite view shows no sign of a footbridge but there is something that might be the cover of an underpass, though only on one platform. I expect someone with local knowledge will tell us.
(b) Agree, but the prototype has a long headshunt.
(c) Agree again. I was going to add that to the drawing but it would have meant changing those sharp curves, too. Getting lazy in my old age!
Westbury was Subway accessed from the entrance.  Worked there for a while.
Some days its just not worth gnawing through the straps.

Offline Spanners70

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #54 on: May 29, 2018, 08:48:04 pm »
For the people talking about os maps best I’ve found is dash4it.co.uk there about a fiver, Coe. With a digital code now too so you can download the digital version of the paper ap you bought into the os app on your phone/iPad..brilliant who needs a compass just walk and keep the blue triangle on your chosen route taken all the fun out of navigation in the hills etc..

Offline Leon

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #55 on: May 29, 2018, 10:04:40 pm »
@rogerdB I tend to agree with Roger but would make the following observations:-

(a) the platforms are penned in by track. Did Westbury have subway access?
(b) UK practice is for the outer oval to run clockwise and be considered the 'Up' line. The sidings at the bottom of the plan would really not require a headshunt as all trains would be reversed in (as per prototype). It could be kept for loco storage, though.
(c) the lower platform loop could be run off a RH point as the last part of the RH curve, thus lengthening and improving the running as it gets rid of the reverse curve.

Just my thoughts

Thanks Mick.
(a) Must have - satellite view shows no sign of a footbridge but there is something that might be the cover of an underpass, though only on one platform. I expect someone with local knowledge will tell us.
(b) Agree, but the prototype has a long headshunt.
(c) Agree again. I was going to add that to the drawing but it would have meant changing those sharp curves, too. Getting lazy in my old age!


All remarks are appreciated and will be studied carefully. Right now, I don't understand everything. Remember, I'm basing my layout on Westbury, not replicating it. I've stated in previous posts that Westbury has a subway entrance to the platforms, and the passenger lounge/ticket office is on the level of the lower sidings while the lines through the station are almost the height of the building. That was the basis for my belief that the mainline bypass would not need to descend very much to pass under the Salisbury line.

There are limitations to Kato track and points that I have to work around. Kato doesn't make curved points, for one example.

Again, perhaps I've not made it clear enough, but all I'm trying to accomplish is the creation of the traffic flow through Westbury, and the topographical features and buildings that existed in 1938. Neither have changed much. I understood from the beginning that it was ambitious, and I've achieved more than I expected when I set out. The sidings I've created represent what has/is happening at Westbury and doesn't try to replicate the scale of the workings. Standing on the further platform, one can see up the track and through the open train shed as depicted in the plan. Google Maps shows clearly a footprint of a siding that must have existed to the Goods Station which is there today, I believe. A freight station is located to the west of the station building. I don't know when it was added, but figure it could have been since the War. The tight curves are necessitated by the use of Kato track. I intially intended to use Peco 55, and in fact bought some, but have no desire to take the time required to work with flexible track and soldering point conections.

So, if I can build a layout that will allow me to run historically correct trains and use the plan I've devised with a few tweeks, that will be what you'll see somewhere down the road. If I can't I'll scrape it and build something simpler. Believe me, I'm not anxious to create a layout with any more complexity than necessary. What I've designed can be scaled back, somewhat. I don't expect anyone to have the interest in Westbury that I have. I've spend a lot of hours reading about the community and station, and viewing photographs and videos. If anyone IS sufficiently interested, I'll have a LOT of images after my visit that I'll be happy to share.

Leon

Offline Leon

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #56 on: May 31, 2018, 10:12:23 am »
Not a worry. There's a simple example of a 1:30 incline. If you take a typical 30cm (12') ruler and put one end on top of a 1cm high block of some sort that gives you a 1:30 incline. Essentially for every 1cm you climb, it takes 30cm distance to do it. (it works in imperial too). Either way, just take the height you want to climb and multiply it by 30. That's the distance you have to have to get that height.

Zwilnik, the example you provided is very helpful. Thanks! I've reworked my plan, removing the sharp curves. I'm not at all sure I'm finished, but by applying the 1:30 rule I believe it is possible to run the Salisbury line over the double main line. I have most of the width of the layout to drop the main line, and the Salisbury line is higher through the station and switching yards. The track rejoining the main line will have to decline slightly, but I've created a little more room on that side of the layout, and the mainline can rise slightly after the curve under the Salisbury line. It looks feasible from my present perspective, but if it doesn't work when I start laying track, I'll eliminate the railbridge.

I'm flying to Bristol today, and should be in Westbury next week!

Leon

Offline Safety Engineer

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #57 on: May 31, 2018, 01:20:59 pm »
Leon,

If of any interest and convenient for your plans, my local club 'Bentley Model Railway Group' is holding an open day on Sunday 3rd June at our club room 15 Harris Road, Calne SN11 9PT (an industrial unit). We are just off the Calne bypass linking the A4 from Chippenham to the A3102 to Lynham/ Royal Wootton Bassett/Swindon. Its not an exhibition more a demonstration of what we do and an attempt to attrach new members. Layouts on show will be Hedges Hill Cutting (N gauge Southern Region electrics), Kannotburn (Scottish 00 with either DCC or DC operation), Gladstone Road (00) and others.

Anyone reading this is of course welcome to come along.

Martin

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #58 on: June 01, 2018, 07:28:59 pm »
Edit:  I've dug out the signalling book and glanced through the index of boxes and diagrams but Westbury isn't listed, sorry.  I have no idea offhand what the title of the layouts book might have been but I'll see if I can track down box diagrams for you another way.

Leon,

I have tracked down diagrams for Westbury South, Middle & North Boxes, if you haven't seen them before. 

The most recent ones are shown but I think you would have to buy on CD to read them, if they are in stock.  The earlier ones are available as pdf files, and are dated 1940 for Middle, and 1933 for South & North boxes.  There is no date for the later Middle Box diagram, but South Box is dated 1953 and North Box 1962. 

If I have time over the weekend, I'll try to compare the earlier and later diagrams for any major changes.  It will take me a while to find the best way to make the pdf files available for you if you do not have time while you're here. 

The website is https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/drawdiagrams.php , Westbury is listed under Section B: Bristol Division - B8: Weymouth Line. 

Dick. 

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #59 on: June 03, 2018, 10:48:59 am »

The website is https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/drawdiagrams.php , Westbury is listed under Section B: Bristol Division - B8: Weymouth Line. 


Leon,

This is a useful site if you need to find an alternative station to Westbury, either up or down the line, or in a different area. 

 

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