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Author Topic: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale  (Read 1554 times)

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Offline ColinH

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2018, 01:36:11 pm »
Would not be prototypical for the site of course but could a pair of  X-crossings be used to cross on the level? Believe there is a similar arrangement at Newark.
My layout Much Puffindun can be seen at http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=17426.msg173415#msg173415
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Offline Zwilnik

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2018, 01:44:27 pm »
Kato do curved elevated pieces, but that definitely isn't going to be the biggest problem again. As Roger pointed out, you're not going to have enough space to get the elevation you need to clear the lines running below.

Depending on which line is running elevated you've also go different problems.

If the Dilton Halt Marsh single line is elevated, you'll end up with the points at C on an incline (which is a problem) and the crossover would either have to be eliminated or moved to the other side of the station on the right. Generally though it looks like it would be best to keep that line at the lower level and cross under the twin ("to weymouth") line as that's got more space either side before points. I'd look at moving the points and crossover that are on the left hand side to give more distance to handle inclines though. If the crossover at A is moved further right and the yards above shortened a bit, you might have more space to take the curve from the station around to join the line further up.

A little trick you can do to help with short distances for inclines btw. You don't just have to raise one track up. If you drop the line going below down at the same time as raising the over line up, you get the clearance you want in half the distance ;)

One definite advantage of Kato track is once you've got the actual track there it's really easy to try out the different configurations of a plan and see if they work before committing to fixing them to a board.

Offline rogerdB

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2018, 02:41:55 pm »
What would you suggest - or would you just say start over?

Leon

I think we all want different things from our layouts. My own taste is for a modest amount of railway set within a believable scene and that was my basic premise for Wrenton. It was my first attempt at N and my first layout of any type for decades but it seems to have worked out ok.

My favourite N gauge layout is Vale of Oxbury, which likewise includes just a single station in a scenic setting. It's on another forum - dare I link to http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/8511-vale-of-oxbury-br-western-region/. It's also due to appear in next month's Hornby magazine which will be published on June 14th if you're over here then.

You seem to prefer lots of railway, though. It's probably worth thinking about how you would operate it. Single handed I find controlling two trains at once pretty challenging, so your proposed plan might be a bit of a handful unless you have some folk ready to lend a hand.

You can probably guess what I would suggest. Go for something simpler - perhaps two more modest stations with a scenic divide down the middle of the baseboard, perhaps one of the stations as a small junction (like Oxbury). But the beauty of the hobby is that at the end of the day we all go our own ways!

Offline Safety Engineer

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2018, 06:55:28 pm »
Leon,

You may get more information regarding railways in the Westbury area from the 'Wiltshire and Swindon History Centre' here in Chippenham. Its only been open a few years and has dedicated document storage and conservation facilities, certainly has old maps as they were on display. My wife and I went a couple of years ago to an open day with a friend interested in family history. It has a web site and an Email address if you want to contact them, located in Cocklebury Road, just past the railway station.

Martin

Offline Leon

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2018, 09:27:44 pm »

You seem to prefer lots of railway, though. It's probably worth thinking about how you would operate it. Single handed I find controlling two trains at once pretty challenging, so your proposed plan might be a bit of a handful unless you have some folk ready to lend a hand.

You can probably guess what I would suggest. Go for something simpler - perhaps two more modest stations with a scenic divide down the middle of the baseboard, perhaps one of the stations as a small junction (like Oxbury). But the beauty of the hobby is that at the end of the day we all go our own ways!

Roger, it's not that I need a lot of railway. I need to capture a real place, and I liked the fact that Westbury is perfect for up and down express trains, a potential autocoach route, and lots of switching for goods and mineral wagons. I don't suppose one can have all that in a simple layout. I'm in no hurry, so I'll continue to consider the options. I've too much invested in GWR to change that part of the plan, however. I might even consider a "dummy" line down to Dilton Marsh - terminating my autocoach at Westbury. If you have other suggestions or comments, they will be welcome. I'll be taking a look at Vale of Oxbury. Thanks for the link.

Leon

Offline njee20

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2018, 09:33:31 pm »
It's a workable plan except that line to Dilton Marsh. That curve looks brutally sharp too, even ignoring the gradient which we've already covered.

If you can just ditch that bit then it'll work. You'd need to flip the coal merchant and run it off the platforms. I get that's diverging from it being a model of Westbury, but I can't see a way to recreate it faithfully without totally unworkable gradients.

Offline Leon

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2018, 09:34:46 pm »
Leon,

You may get more information regarding railways in the Westbury area from the 'Wiltshire and Swindon History Centre' here in Chippenham.

Martin

Thanks for the great suggestion. I'll be taking myself away from the family for a full day in Westbury, so I'm not sure how much more time I can devote to railroading, but I'll not be that far from Chippenham so the History Centre would be something I could enjoy.

Leon

Offline Safety Engineer

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2018, 10:11:13 pm »
I got the impression you needed to tell them what you wanted to see and they then brought it up from the archive. When we went I thought it was the modern day equivalent of the county records office.

Martin

Offline Safety Engineer

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2018, 10:50:22 pm »
Leon,

Not sure if you are aware but there is a small independent producer called Union Mills models on the Isle of Man run by a man called Colin Heard. He does three ex GWR locomotives in N gauge: Dukedog 4-4-0 tender loco with outside frames, 2251 class 0-6-0 tender loco and a 0-6-0 tender Dean goods loco. All three are available in Green with either Crest, Great Western or shirt button logo. Only produces small batches so may not have all in stock, no web site but I have always found him helpful on the Phone, 441624852896 from outside UK or Email colin.h@manx.net.
I have several of his locomotives and only had trouble with one which he exchanged without question. He apparently test runs each of them, not highly detailed but very rugged tender drive, and heavy will probably pull anything you can put behind. Quite reasonably priced in the 70 to 85 range

Martin

Offline Leon

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2018, 12:30:52 pm »
Would not be prototypical for the site of course but could a pair of  X-crossings be used to cross on the level? Believe there is a similar arrangement at Newark.
t

Colin, I don't know enough to provide an intelligent comment. I think I'll not fully understand many of the restrictions of curves and elevations until I'm actually modeling. For example, there is a comment about the sharp curve on the Dilton segment, but the same curve is included elsewhere in the plan without comment (as yet). The curves are sharper than I wanted, but eight feet is all the space I have. One curve is entering the station where the trains would be slowing and the Dilton curve is (in my plan) just outside the station, so train speed isn't an issue.

Thanks for your comment.

Leon

Offline Leon

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #40 on: May 29, 2018, 12:46:23 pm »
You don't just have to raise one track up. If you drop the line going below down at the same time as raising the over line up, you get the clearance you want in half the distance ;)

One definite advantage of Kato track is once you've got the actual track there it's really easy to try out the different configurations of a plan and see if they work before committing to fixing them to a board.

The combination of lowering and raising track for clearance is something that I shall be considering when I begin the actual construction of the layout. I'm really grateful for you and Roger looking so carefully at my plan, and I respect your cautionary advice. I don't reject anything that has been said, as I have no basis in either knowledge or experience, but I'm looking forward to observing the problem in real time when I'm actually building the layout. I can eliminate the Dilton Marsh section of track altogether, if necessary, just leaving it as a straight crossing the main line (probably more sensible, anyway) ending at the edge of the board as I have to do with the other end of the line (at the top of the layout). No big deal for my purposes - but lacking the identifiable passenger stop that I have with Trowbridge at the top.

Leon

Offline Leon

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2018, 12:57:28 pm »

You'd need to flip the coal merchant and run it off the platforms.

njee, will you elaborate a bit? I don't know for a fact that in 1938 there existed a coal merchant where I placed him in my plan, but neither do I know that there was one working off the platform. What is there about the location I've chosen that makes it either impractical or unworkable? I know very little about railways! I just like them, and hope I'll gather a little understanding via osmosis.
 
I've stated elsewhere that I'm prepared to eliminate the Dilton Marsh curve over the mainline. My purpose was to provide a terminus for my autocoach service, which may not be appropriate anyway. If I find that there was an autocoach service through Westbury, I'll just have it running from Westbury to Trowbridge.

Leon

Offline Zwilnik

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #42 on: May 29, 2018, 01:04:24 pm »
As you're using Kato track, it's probably worth picking up one of the track sets to play with while planning. It's a relatively economical way of getting track and controller but also would give you some actual physical track to experiment with and see how the locos handle inclines etc.

The general rule of thumb for most N gauge locos is an incline of no more than 1 in 30 but depending on what locos you're running and what they're having to pull up the slope you can sometimes get away with more.

Offline Leon

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #43 on: May 29, 2018, 01:56:57 pm »
As you're using Kato track, it's probably worth picking up one of the track sets to play with while planning. It's a relatively economical way of getting track and controller but also would give you some actual physical track to experiment with and see how the locos handle inclines etc.

The general rule of thumb for most N gauge locos is an incline of no more than 1 in 30 but depending on what locos you're running and what they're having to pull up the slope you can sometimes get away with more.

Zwilnik, thanks so much. I've probably broken all the rules of modeling, already, and I'm at the planning stage! I've already acquired several locomotives, over forty wagons, lots of Kato track, controller, and many of the points I'll need. But, I'm several weeks away from building the baseboard on which to mount them. Presently, I'm on vacation in the UK and since first posting on this forum unable to put my hands on anything but my computer.

I'm a relatively educated person, but have never understood ratios as they apply to inclines, and my geometry skill is weak, at best. I understand the properties of a circle, but am hopeless at understanding angles as applied to track and points. My strength may be perseverance. Trial and error works well for me, and there will be plenty errors when I start construction, no doubt. I'd love to have a clear instructional guide to the geometry of railway modeling. The explanations I've found and read seem to assume more knowledge than I presently possess.

Leon

Offline Zwilnik

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2018, 02:20:08 pm »
As you're using Kato track, it's probably worth picking up one of the track sets to play with while planning. It's a relatively economical way of getting track and controller but also would give you some actual physical track to experiment with and see how the locos handle inclines etc.

The general rule of thumb for most N gauge locos is an incline of no more than 1 in 30 but depending on what locos you're running and what they're having to pull up the slope you can sometimes get away with more.

Zwilnik, thanks so much. I've probably broken all the rules of modeling, already, and I'm at the planning stage! I've already acquired several locomotives, over forty wagons, lots of Kato track, controller, and many of the points I'll need. But, I'm several weeks away from building the baseboard on which to mount them. Presently, I'm on vacation in the UK and since first posting on this forum unable to put my hands on anything but my computer.

I'm a relatively educated person, but have never understood ratios as they apply to inclines, and my geometry skill is weak, at best. I understand the properties of a circle, but am hopeless at understanding angles as applied to track and points. My strength may be perseverance. Trial and error works well for me, and there will be plenty errors when I start construction, no doubt. I'd love to have a clear instructional guide to the geometry of railway modeling. The explanations I've found and read seem to assume more knowledge than I presently possess.

Leon

Not a worry. There's a simple example of a 1:30 incline. If you take a typical 30cm (12') ruler and put one end on top of a 1cm high block of some sort that gives you a 1:30 incline. Essentially for every 1cm you climb, it takes 30cm distance to do it. (it works in imperial too). Either way, just take the height you want to climb and multiply it by 30. That's the distance you have to have to get that height.

 

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