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Author Topic: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale  (Read 1888 times)

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Offline Leon

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2018, 05:35:36 pm »
I know nothing of Kato tram track, but I have used Kato UniTrack for my AnyRail plan. The curve above Dilton Marsh is the same as others in the plan, so I presume your concern is with the elevation of track after the curve headed into Dilton Marsh. I suppose I'll have to exercise some more "poetic license" and have my halt on an elevation that will permit an acceptable gradient from the curve/bridge (I'm still more concerned about building a curved bridge). In reality, Dilton Marsh is rather further down the line after the curve (as Trowbridge is much further than I can depict in my layout). I can see it clearly in my "mind's eye", but until I'm actually working with the track, and model the topography, I'm just guessing. My primary purpose for the plan, to this point, is to insure I have the traffic flow correct, with the appropriate crossovers. I'll have a better idea of how to complete the plan after my visit to Westbury next week, but every comment/suggestion will provide motivation to re-examine every facet.

Leon

Offline Safety Engineer

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2018, 06:52:01 pm »
I'm a little puzzled by your time frame, you state Great Western Region. The Great Western Railway (GWR) existed as one of the four railway companies (London Midland and Scottish Railway, London and North Eastern Railway and the Southern Railway) until nationalised (along with the other three) to become roughly the Western Region of British Railways on the 1st January 1948.
If you are modelling from the mid 1950s until the total demise of steam in 1968 you could include some of the BR standard steam locomotives as well as ex-GWR locomotive designs (similar goes for coaching stock).
Note the WR went over to diesel operation fairly early on (late 1965ish) with mainly diesel hydraulics.

Offline Safety Engineer

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2018, 07:24:33 pm »
Just a thought, if you are visiting Westbury next week, both Westbury and Frome had cut-offs constructed in the 1930's (to relieve unemployment) both of which allowed non stopping trains to bypass the stations.

Martin

Offline port perran

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2018, 07:49:23 pm »
If 1962 is your time period, then as far as motive power goes, Westbury was very busy and varied, including the new diesel hydtaulics.
It was possible to see virtually all of the ex GW steam classes on London to the SW trains (via both statiin and avoiding line) and on Cardiff/Bristol to Salisbury/Portsmouth trains (via Trowbridge).
Certainly in 1962 Halls, Granges, Castles, Counties, Manors , Kings, 43xx moguls, various praries, 47xx and 28xx amongst others were common alomg with BR standard types.
SR locos, eg WC/BB U, U1, S15 etc worked up from Salisbury and occasionally MR locos visited - Black 5,8Fs and the odd jubilee. We even saw a visiting B1 one day on a freight working through from Banbury.
Plus, Westbury mpd was a stay over (particularly from 63 on) for withdrawn WR and SR locos en-route to the South Wales scrapyards.
It's you railway so build it as you want and run whatever you like. The only rule is - ENJOY :
My Layouts -
Port Perran:- Trepol Bay:-

Offline Leon

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2018, 08:07:30 pm »

I have adjusted my sidings per the suggestion of Newportnobby, but am not altogether happy with the result. The track spacing doesn't seem right.

Providing the same track and same size points are being used I can't imagine why the track spacing has turned out like that. I think it must just be an interpretation of flexitrack as it's only the last siding of the fan that is 'out' :hmmm:

I could close the spacing by using a #4 point rather than the #6. I've read a lot of user comparisons of #4 and #6 Kato points and the prevailing choice is #6, which I initially did not choose because of the length of the straight side of the point. You will notice that the spacing between turnouts is rather wide, except for the last one in each siding, which is close to the standard width, I think.

Leon

Offline Leon

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2018, 08:34:36 pm »
I'm a little puzzled by your time frame, you state Great Western Region. The Great Western Railway (GWR) existed as one of the four railway companies (London Midland and Scottish Railway, London and North Eastern Railway and the Southern Railway) until nationalised (along with the other three) to become roughly the Western Region of British Railways on the 1st January 1948.
If you are modelling from the mid 1950s until the total demise of steam in 1968 you could include some of the BR standard steam locomotives as well as ex-GWR locomotive designs (similar goes for coaching stock).
Note the WR went over to diesel operation fairly early on (late 1965ish) with mainly diesel hydraulics.

I attempted a post in response to Martin's post quoted above, but it disappeared. *sigh* I'll begin again. I'm modeling the year 1938, but that can change as there has been minimal change to the routes into and around Westbury, as far as I have found. I plan to go to the library there and try to confirm some of my assumptions. It would have been nice to use a greater variety of locomotives and rolling stock, but the planning and construction of my layout will take some time and associated costs will limit the implementation of a working model. So, my limited time frame should be adequate for my purposes. My main concern is that GWR changed liveries every few years and some of the locomotives I've already bought bear the livery introduced in 1942. Otherwise, I'm staying pretty faithful to the period I've chosen - with the exception of "parking" a Caledonian Railways locomotive I've purchased on one of the sidings. I watched a video that included a steam locomotive in Westbury a few years ago, so I suppose it was possible that a Caledonian train made the run to Cornwall. :) I've no explanation for why it would have lingered in Westbury!

Leon

Offline Leon

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2018, 09:15:37 pm »

Offline njee20

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2018, 10:16:06 pm »
You’re definitely going to have to have a longer distance to get the clearance for the flyover on the Salisbury lines, way way longer even with inclined bridges and halts on a gradient. If you have super steep 4% gradients (and I really wouldn’t) then you’ll need at least 3’ run to get clearance.

Offline Safety Engineer

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2018, 10:28:15 pm »
Some suggestions:
The West Wilts Model Railway Circle based at Steeple Ashton near Trowbridge, might have a local expert and be worth a try.
East Somerset models has a portacabin type shop in a shipping container at Cranmore station on the East Somerset steam Railway, used to be run by Ian Stoate who is/was an N gauge modeller. They have quite a lot of N gauge stock.
Titfield Thunderbolt Railway bookshop on the outskirts of Bath run by Simon Castens who was/is a gauge1 modeller.

I have no connection with any of the above other than Knowing some members of the WWMRC and being an occasional customer of ESM.

Present day Westbury is the marshalling point for stone trains from Merehead and Whately quarries to mainly London (I always jokingly say that they are moving the Mendip Hills to London in small chunks).

Martin

Offline Leon

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2018, 08:56:32 am »
Some suggestions:
The West Wilts Model Railway Circle based at Steeple Ashton near Trowbridge, might have a local expert and be worth a try.
East Somerset models has a portacabin type shop in a shipping container at Cranmore station on the East Somerset steam Railway, used to be run by Ian Stoate who is/was an N gauge modeller. They have quite a lot of N gauge stock.
Titfield Thunderbolt Railway bookshop on the outskirts of Bath run by Simon Castens who was/is a gauge1 modeller.

I have no connection with any of the above other than Knowing some members of the WWMRC and being an occasional customer of ESM.

Present day Westbury is the marshalling point for stone trains from Merehead and Whately quarries to mainly London (I always jokingly say that they are moving the Mendip Hills to London in small chunks).

Martin

Martin, thanks for suggesting some resources. I'll definitely visit Titfield Thunderbolt Railway, and maybe Cranmore Station. I've also been told that the Frome Model Centre has an excellent inventory. West Wilts Model Railway Circle meets on Wednesday nights, so that is a bit problematic.

Leon

Leon

Offline Leon

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2018, 09:12:23 am »
You’re definitely going to have to have a longer distance to get the clearance for the flyover on the Salisbury lines, way way longer even with inclined bridges and halts on a gradient. If you have super steep 4% gradients (and I really wouldn’t) then you’ll need at least 3’ run to get clearance.

I guess I have a significant problem! Any suggestions to avoid scraping the plan altogether? The only practical purpose for the Dilton Marsh Halt is to provide a terminus for an autocoach service route, and I've not confirmed that such a service was ever provided through Westbury. I hope the Westbury library will be able to provide the answer to that question. I bought a locomotive and autocoach before discovering that the logo of the loco and coach don't match. I suppose that's not a serious problem as GW apparently didn't repaint all of their stock when a livery or logo changed. But, I'm still trying hard to maintain that "frozen moment" in 1938, so the locomotive with the GWR logo may have to go (plus at least one more).

Leon

Offline Leon

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2018, 10:38:20 am »
Hooray for Google Maps and Wikipedia! I've been studying those sources this morning and can confirm that Dilton Marsh Halt, is elevated above nearby houses. According to Wikipedia "The Great Western Railway opened "Dilton Marsh Halt" on 1 June 1937. The wooden platforms were 300 feet (91 m) long and were provided with small wooden shelters; the construction cost £1,134. Being a "halt" there were no staff to sell tickets, but a sign directed would-be passengers to the "7th house up the hill" where Mrs H. Roberts sold tickets from her home." From Westbury, any change in elevation to Dilton Marsh appears to be minimal. From the Dilton Marsh station (no longer a halt) a photograph shows houses below the station level. The main line to Frome, which passes under the Salisbury/Southampton line, is also on level land. It seems to have been built on an embankment on the east side of Westbury, with Station Road (B3097) passing beneath, but is level with a parallel street and houses a short distance west of Station Road. There may be a slight loss of elevation before meeting the Salisbury/Southampton line. As I've stated before, the lines through the station (which include the line to Dilton Marsh) are elevated above the level of the passenger/ticket office.

Given these facts, which I will confirm next week by a visit to the area, it seems feasible to me that my plan in the lower left corner is feasible (though I'm still concerned about a curved bridge (Kato does have a curved bridge track section). Comments?

Leon

Offline Safety Engineer

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2018, 12:04:19 pm »
If you are visiting England next week and want some prototype information, the Great Western Society based in the old GWR engine shed at Didcot railway centre is worth a visit, they probably have the largest collection of ex-GWR locomotives in one place. They also have a broad gauge section and replica locomotive. (Pendon model railway museum at Long Whitteham, Abingdon is only a few miles away, they have a large layout in 00 depicting the Vale of the White Horse in GWR days).
Longest preserved steam railways worth a visit and reachable from the Westbury area are: the West Somerset from Bishops Lydeard (Taunton) to Minehead, the Severn Valley from Kidderminster to Bridgenorth and the Gloucestershire and Warwickshire railway based at Toddington. Note there are other steam railways, but to many to list.

Martin

Offline rogerdB

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2018, 12:15:04 pm »
...it seems feasible to me that my plan in the lower left corner is feasible (though I'm still concerned about a curved bridge (Kato does have a curved bridge track section). Comments?

Leon

It really isn't, Leon. Let me bore you with my diagram again.



I don't know how thick Kato track is, but let's say you need to get about an inch and a half between rail top levels at C - other levels are not relevant. The track between the point at B and the left end of the crossover A looks to be about 9". Being generous the distance from the crossover to C is another 9". The main lines between B and C could drop between those points, but it's only about 6". So a total run of 2' to gain the height required. That's about 1 in 16! And a bit of your main line would be like that.


Offline Leon

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Re: GWR Rail Junction - Converting to N Scale
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2018, 12:58:00 pm »

It really isn't, Leon. Let me bore you with my diagram again.


Roger, good input. Thank you very much. What would you suggest - or would you just say start over?

Leon
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 01:25:56 pm by Newportnobby, Reason: Quote amended so more sense is made »

 

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