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Author Topic: First N gauge layout - design help  (Read 437 times)

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Offline oncomin5torm

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First N gauge layout - design help
« on: May 24, 2018, 09:31:12 pm »
Little query for you learned fellows on this forum.

as in the first picture below It is the layout I want to build in N, I have costed it at 170ish for all the track.


Could I do it in two sections? like buy enough to do the outer loop and then buy and connect up the inner track separately at a later date, so long as I know where its going to go I can do scenery and ballast to not interfere with it.

I mean how difficult would that be? so I can get some trains running and also enjoy the hobby. whilst not completely destroying my bank.

as I have shown in the second picture.



I have left a section of track in one corner as I will be building a tunnel there and think it would be easier to lay the track before the tunnel is there.
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Offline Newportnobby

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Re: First N gauge layout - design help
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2018, 09:39:45 pm »
I see no reason why you shouldn't do the outer oval and then add to it when money allows, but I really do suggest you get the track plan well and truly fixed to your satisfaction as you don't want to be pulling stuff up you have laid and ballasted etc. I always say the track plan is the most important part of the layout as boredom and disillusionment can easily set in if you find you don't like it further down the road.
Remember for UK outline, it is a general rule the outer oval of the two travels clockwise, so run an imaginary train round to check you have points where you need them and that a train does not run into a siding and the loco ends up against the buffers with no way out. That's not an issue with DCC but would make the wiring for DC a little more tricky as you'd need an isolating section.

Online RailGooner

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Re: First N gauge layout - design help
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2018, 09:40:05 pm »
..
Could I do it in two sections? like buy enough to do the outer loop and then buy and connect up the inner track separately at a later date, so long as I know where its going to go I can do scenery and ballast to not interfere with it.


Sounds a decent idea. I wonder though, if you'd be better off doing the inner track first? Might prove easier to add a second track without having to work reaching over the already laid (ballasted, and weathered,) track. :hmmm:
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Offline oncomin5torm

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Re: First N gauge layout - design help
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2018, 09:47:13 pm »
I see no reason why you shouldn't do the outer oval and then add to it when money allows, but I really do suggest you get the track plan well and truly fixed to your satisfaction as you don't want to be pulling stuff up you have laid and ballasted etc. I always say the track plan is the most important part of the layout as boredom and disillusionment can easily set in if you find you don't like it further down the road.
Remember for UK outline, it is a general rule the outer oval of the two travels clockwise, so run an imaginary train round to check you have points where you need them and that a train does not run into a siding and the loco ends up against the buffers with no way out. That's not an issue with DCC but would make the wiring for DC a little more tricky as you'd need an isolating section.

The plan is pretty much fixed as it is, the only thing which is slightly fluid is the exact placement of the 3 sidings on the inner loop.
The main reason I want to start with the outer loop is because the inner one has the most points and those things are what are driving the price up so much.

On the rotation of running I did not know that, It will be DC for starters with isolation switches for the sidings, also the two lower sidings are meant to be loco shed ones, the inner ones are industry.

with one of them, probably the top one heavily weathered as its no longer used and has fallen into disrepair.

I probably should have said its all code 55.
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Re: First N gauge layout - design help
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2018, 09:48:59 pm »
Nothing to stop you doing the layout in two, (or more), sections. As NPN alluded to, make sure that if you do one part, make sure the second part can be connected to the first part without any difficulty. RailGooner makes a good point about doing the inner bit first. Good luck with it.

Addit: living where I do, I can do a reply, hit 'Save' but it can take a couple of minutes to travel through space. Hence the reason why my post is after your explanation about cost etc.  :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 09:51:47 pm by dannyboy, Reason: added a bit! »
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Offline oncomin5torm

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Re: First N gauge layout - design help
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2018, 09:54:50 pm »
Nothing to stop you doing the layout in two, (or more), sections. As NPN alluded to, make sure that if you do one part, make sure the second part can be connected to the first part without any difficulty. RailGooner makes a good point about doing the inner bit first. Good luck with it.

Addit: living where I do, I can do a reply, hit 'Save' but it can take a couple of minutes to travel through space. Hence the reason why my post is after your explanation about cost etc.  :thumbsup:

That's why I added in the connecting back to back points, I did not fancy trying to install a point to an already fixed point, flexi between two sections would be easier to handle than a whaopping great point haha.

I'm just on my computer watching youtube videos on N gauge at the moment so that's why my replies are quick.
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Offline Newportnobby

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Re: First N gauge layout - design help
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2018, 10:47:35 pm »
With the sidings at the bottom off the outer oval you have created an 'S' which could be improved by making the point to the sidings part of the preceding curve. This would give better running and extra length to the sidings - thus.......................



You can also see any train entering the sidings from the clockwise direction will result in the loco being 'buffer locked' i.e. up against the buffers with no way out. For DC what I'd do is put your longest loco against the buffers and then cut one of the rails behind it (see where I have put the red lines in the diagram) Using a wire each side of that cut running to a latchable on/off switch you can run the train into the siding, press your switch to isolate that rail and then run another loco onto the other end of the train to pull it out. Press the switch again and you release the first loco now the track is powered again. Under DCC this is not at all necessary as you drive the loco not the track. There are no doubt other ways of creating/using that isolating section but I happen to like switches wire to a control panel :D

Offline oncomin5torm

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Re: First N gauge layout - design help
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2018, 10:52:44 pm »
Thanks for that.
I'll have a play with the siding points  tomorrow.
I do like the idea of not isolating the entire siding, just a section of it for the loco to sit in.
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Offline oncomin5torm

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Re: First N gauge layout - design help
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2018, 09:48:02 am »
With the sidings at the bottom off the outer oval you have created an 'S' which could be improved by making the point to the sidings part of the preceding curve. This would give better running and extra length to the sidings - thus.......................



You can also see any train entering the sidings from the clockwise direction will result in the loco being 'buffer locked' i.e. up against the buffers with no way out. For DC what I'd do is put your longest loco against the buffers and then cut one of the rails behind it (see where I have put the red lines in the diagram) Using a wire each side of that cut running to a latchable on/off switch you can run the train into the siding, press your switch to isolate that rail and then run another loco onto the other end of the train to pull it out. Press the switch again and you release the first loco now the track is powered again. Under DCC this is not at all necessary as you drive the loco not the track. There are no doubt other ways of creating/using that isolating section but I happen to like switches wire to a control panel :D


I'm like you I like control panels, I love my mimic board on my 00 layout. It could just be because its my first one haha

I've had a little play, and it works a lot better, I see what you mean now about better running, its smoother.
The only thing is using the long radius points it actually reduces the siding length, yes its a long siding anyway as 3/4 of the entire layout length its just over half of it now so it actually might be better.



I think it looks better with the outer curve kicked out a little too on that area it joins the two points.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 09:49:26 am by oncomin5torm »
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Offline Newportnobby

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Re: First N gauge layout - design help
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2018, 10:54:41 am »

The only thing is using the long radius points it actually reduces the siding length, yes its a long siding anyway as 3/4 of the entire layout length its just over half of it now so it actually might be better.


I note your baseboard size is 1200mm x a tad over 800mm so wonder if you need to use the large points :hmmm:
For sure, they look better than anything smaller but you could save 37mm per point if you used small electrofrogs (obviously not where curved points are involved)
I use them a lot on a layout almost double the size and everything I have runs through the points with no issues.

Offline oncomin5torm

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Re: First N gauge layout - design help
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2018, 03:01:13 pm »

The only thing is using the long radius points it actually reduces the siding length, yes its a long siding anyway as 3/4 of the entire layout length its just over half of it now so it actually might be better.


I note your baseboard size is 1200mm x a tad over 800mm so wonder if you need to use the large points :hmmm:
For sure, they look better than anything smaller but you could save 37mm per point if you used small electrofrogs (obviously not where curved points are involved)
I use them a lot on a layout almost double the size and everything I have runs through the points with no issues.

Knock them all down to medium and add more scenic space at the edges?
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Offline Newportnobby

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Re: First N gauge layout - design help
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2018, 04:00:23 pm »

The only thing is using the long radius points it actually reduces the siding length, yes its a long siding anyway as 3/4 of the entire layout length its just over half of it now so it actually might be better.


I note your baseboard size is 1200mm x a tad over 800mm so wonder if you need to use the large points :hmmm:
For sure, they look better than anything smaller but you could save 37mm per point if you used small electrofrogs (obviously not where curved points are involved)
I use them a lot on a layout almost double the size and everything I have runs through the points with no issues.

Knock them all down to medium and add more scenic space at the edges?

Yup. That would work too

 

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