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Author Topic: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points  (Read 546 times)

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Offline acook

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2018, 08:15:40 pm »
Using the wired fishplate on the end of one frog rail with a short piece of track that then has the insulating fishplate on that instead of the end of the point.
The wire then goes to the switch.
Exactly the same as connecting to the frog, just avoids soldering.
Alan (a genius for only a short time!)

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2018, 09:09:32 pm »
You may have gathered I'm somewhat backward when it comes to this sort of electrickery, and guess that power would pass down the fitted frog wire just as it would through a fishplate so my question was silly, to say the least. I'm aware pre soldered size fishplates are available off Fleabay but, with only 3 chairs on the V rails on the small electrofrogs, I'm very nervous of slicing these off to get the fishplate on so as to be able to fit an IRJ as well, on the basis there would be nothing holding the V rails to the point other than the part buried in the webbing :uneasy: Is there something I'm missing somewhere?
As I have some pre soldered fishplates I was wondering if I could crimp them onto the frog wire beneath the point and thus avoid soldering that way.
Nobby ( an electrickery thicko probably for all time)

Offline acook

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2018, 09:19:41 pm »
Normally you put IRJ's on the two frog rails of the point.
Put one on one frog rail.
On the other connect a short length of track using a normal fishplate on the stock rail side.
Use the wired fishplate between this piece of track and the frog rail.
Put the other IRJ at the other end of this piece of rail.
In effect you have extended the frog rail on one side by connecting this piece of track.
The wire "thinks" it is connected to the frog and acts like it is.
Alan

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2018, 09:28:43 pm »
I grasp what you're saying, Alan, but it may not be that easy as, generally, all my points are followed by a curved piece of flexitrack and to trim a small piece off to use as an extension to the frog rail could cause me running problems. What did you think to the crimping idea, out of interest?
Thanks.

Offline longbow

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2018, 10:31:12 pm »
FYI Peco's new Unifrog design comes with live frog wire ready installed - see the recent thread on this forum

Online Lindi

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2018, 10:41:55 pm »
I grasp what you're saying, Alan, but it may not be that easy as, generally, all my points are followed by a curved piece of flexitrack and to trim a small piece off to use as an extension to the frog rail could cause me running problems. What did you think to the crimping idea, out of interest?
Thanks.

Just use an insulated rail joiner at the next join then. As long as their is no train on that section of track when the point is thrown it wont be a problem.

Online Newportnobby

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2018, 10:43:50 pm »
I saw them in this months Railway Modeller but have all the points I need, thanks.
(To say nothing of the cost of a Pendolino, HST, 10 x mineral wagons, a balance still to pay on class B tanks blah blah)
Please send more Red Cross parcels :help:

Online Newportnobby

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2018, 10:45:34 pm »
I grasp what you're saying, Alan, but it may not be that easy as, generally, all my points are followed by a curved piece of flexitrack and to trim a small piece off to use as an extension to the frog rail could cause me running problems. What did you think to the crimping idea, out of interest?
Thanks.

Just use an insulated rail joiner at the next join then. As long as their is no train on that section of track when the point is thrown it wont be a problem.

Seems like my being dense has caused me to scare myself witless for no reason ::). Thank you.

Offline acook

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2018, 11:03:18 pm »
I don't think the crimping is a good idea, in the full size electrickery the crimping tool goes all the way around the ting to be crimped, looking under a code 80 electrofrog not enough room to get sufficient pressure to crimp effectively, and curving the fishplate may well ping off the wire.
Insufficient pressure would give an intermittent connection, worse with time.
If you are worried about kinking of the track at the join with the point, pick the straightest of the two routes, make the stock rail side continuous and the frogside has a 2 sleeper + 2 joints length of rail.
It has the same chance of kinking as an IRJ on the end of the frog.
Try on one and see what happens, if the flextrack radius is great enough that it will not kink straight onto the point with IRJ directly on the frog then it will not kink my way.
If the radius is tight then I use a bit of setrack rad4 curve and attach the flextrack to that, but code 55 different.

Offline DCCDave

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2018, 02:53:54 pm »
Three circles: one for actuating wire (blade end), two for the frog wires (underneath the frog).  Correct?

Spot on. I remove cork (with a Stanley knife) between the two frog wire holes to allow any excessive solder (from the frog wires) to drop below the top of the cork.

Cheers
Dave
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 02:55:29 pm by DCCDave »

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2018, 03:15:10 pm »
It strikes me that for my purposes the best thing will be to use a pre soldered fishplate on one frog rail (to go to 'F' on the Seep PM1). As my loops will always have the points switched in the same direction at both ends there would be no necessity for IRJs (as per @ntpntpntp )
Anything not doing this will have an IRJ fitted further down the line as per @Lindi

Offline lil chris

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2018, 09:49:30 pm »
@Newportnobby   Hi Mick only just read  this post, how have you got on or not ?. At the end of the day the easiest way is between the "V" ie the frog. I used to solder the wire to the link under the point but then you have to make sure to drill a hole for the wire and take care when laying the point to get it flat. I now add the wires after laying the point,it is a good idea to tin the side of the V rail before laying the point.I usually scrape the side of the rail with a model knife or if you prefer use a fibreglass pencil, I then brush some liquid flux on the rail and the touch the soldering iron onto the rail with a small amount of solder. After laying the point I drill a hole between the "V" for the wire  which I have also pre-tinned, push the wire up through the hole, you only need to touch the iron on the wire then and the job is done. You do need a steady hand to avoid the melting of sleepers but it is fairly straightforward. If you want I can come round and show you how to do it, just say when, not Bank Holiday Monday of course.
Lil Chris
My layout here East Lancashire Lines
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=29492.0

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2018, 10:23:06 pm »
@lil chris
Your offer of soldering help is very kind, Chris, but I've decided to go down the soldered fishplate route (as per my feeds/returns) as it will be extremely easy for me and also I'll be able to see exactly where to drill the hole in the baseboard to push the frog wire through.
Again, thank you.

 

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